How to get lynched at a model railway show

[Griffin Road]

But isn't a model of a non-existent thing the prototype?

Yes for the 7 mm version of Garnock but when you are also told the fictitious town of New Garnock is built in the wrong place and should be a few miles further north , it complicates matters ! ( oh I forgot to add that as well )

 

While trying to explain the concept of the trainset to someone while asking them to reread the carefully written blurb on the nicely laminated sheet , it gets complicated .......

 

This was all going on while some of my very kind friends from Ayr club were watching on and taking the 'p' .

 

I don't know whether the guy asking the questions or I deserved lynched at that particular model railway show . Him for not understanding or me for building the thing in the first place .

 

It did however pass a rather 'interesting' half an hour .

 

Cheers

 

Confused of Ayrshire Riviera ( who will not be building another model of a model , prototype - delete as appropriate )

[andytrains]

Person standing in front of a P4 layout, "Is this 00 gauge".

Operator, "no, it's P4"

Person, "Whats P4"

Operator, "It is 4mm/1ft scale with correct gauge of track at 18.83mm, whereas 00 gauge has a track gauge of 16.5mm"

Person, "So it is 00 gauge with wider track"

 

Person then walks away to the EM layout next to the P4 layout, and asks "Is this 00 gauge".

Operator, "no, it's EM gauge"

Person, "Whats EM"

Operator, "It is 4mm/1ft scale with the gauge of track at 18.2mm, whereas 00 gauge has a track gauge of 16.5mm"

Person, "So it is 00 gauge with wider track"

 

The same person then goes to a 009 layout and asks, "Is this 00 gauge".

Operator, "No, it's 009"

Person, "Whats 009"

Operator, "It is 4mm/1ft scale, but narrow gauge prototypes with track gauge of 9mm, whereas 00 gauge has a track gauge of 16.5mm and is of standard gauge prototypes"

Person, "So it is 00 gauge with narrower track"

 

(Last I heard the three operators were all huddled in a corner of the local pub. mumbling and knocking back B52's).

Edited June 18, 2014 by andytrains

[Colin_McLeod]

Just to add confusion to the debate, while the model railway may be a model/prototype of a place that did not exist, the trains running on it are usually models of actual trains.

 

Or to be pedantic: the individual locomotives and carriages and wagons are usually models of real locomotives, carriage and wagons, but they may or may not have run together anywhere in the particular formation that they appear on the model of nowhere.

 

The men in white coats are on their way. Better get mine on before they arrive.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Colin_McLeod

[CKPR]

 

Person standing in front of a P4 layout, "Is this 00 gauge".

Operator, "no, it's P4"

Person, "Whats P4"

Operator, "It is 4mm/1ft scale with correct gauge of track at 18.83mm, whereas 00 gauge has a track gauge of 16.5mm"

Person, "So it is 00 gauge with wider track"

 

Person then walks away to the EM layout next to the P4 layout, and asks "Is this 00 gauge".

Operator, "no, it's EM gauge"

Person, "Whats EM"

Operator, "It is 4mm/1ft scale with the gauge of track at 18.2mm, whereas 00 gauge has a track gauge of 16.5mm"

Person, "So it is 00 gauge with wider track"

 

The same person then goes to a 009 layout and asks, "Is this 00 gauge".

Operator, "No, it's 009"

Person, "Whats 009"

Operator, "It is 4mm/1ft scale, but narrow gauge prototypes with track gauge of 9mm, whereas 00 gauge has a track gauge of 16.5mm and is of standard gauge prototypes"

Person, "So it is 00 gauge with narrower track"

 

(Last I heard the three operators were all huddled in a corner of the local pub. mumbling and knocking back B52's).

 

Scale, gauge... scale, gauge...scale, gauge...oh dear, where has the rigour gone ?

[CKPR]

I wonder if this difficulty for some people to comprehend that a model is of a fictitious place is related to autism/aspergers. I don't know much about ASD, but wonder if for a person somewhere on the autism spectrum, when presented with a "real" model, they can see the model is "real", so it must be "real" - but then they are told it is "not real", a made-up place ...

 

And to make things worse it uses a real name or one close to a real name. If your brain struggles to process the ideas, the links between real/not real, that most people have no problem with, then you end up looking daft. Perhaps.

In my day job, I'm a psychologist researching both autism and the understanding of the real and un-real and I'm saying nowt...

[PatB]

 

Person standing in front of a P4 layout, "Is this 00 gauge".

Operator, "no, it's P4"

Person, "Whats P4"

Operator, "It is 4mm/1ft scale with correct gauge of track at 18.83mm, whereas 00 gauge has a track gauge of 16.5mm"

Person, "So it is 00 gauge with wider track"

 

Person then walks away to the EM layout next to the P4 layout, and asks "Is this 00 gauge".

Operator, "no, it's EM gauge"

Person, "Whats EM"

Operator, "It is 4mm/1ft scale with the gauge of track at 18.2mm, whereas 00 gauge has a track gauge of 16.5mm"

Person, "So it is 00 gauge with wider track"

 

The same person then goes to a 009 layout and asks, "Is this 00 gauge".

Operator, "No, it's 009"

Person, "Whats 009"

Operator, "It is 4mm/1ft scale, but narrow gauge prototypes with track gauge of 9mm, whereas 00 gauge has a track gauge of 16.5mm and is of standard gauge prototypes"

Person, "So it is 00 gauge with narrower track"

 

(Last I heard the three operators were all huddled in a corner of the local pub. mumbling and knocking back B52's).

 

 

I shall have to remember this in order to wind up the operators of the next P4 exhibition layout I see .

[bluebottle]

In my day job, I'm a psychologist researching both autism and the understanding of the real and un-real and I'm saying nowt...

 

A bit back, I commented that another RMwebber's avatar was to be preferred to his last but one, which I'd found "rather scary". He was adamant that he'd only ever had two avatars, so I desisted before the lynch mob was sent round. Actually, I'm beginning to wonder if RMweb is simply a figment of my imagination...

[Grafarman]

Actually, I'm beginning to wonder if RMweb is simply a figment of my imagination...

 

Did you take the blue pill or the red pill when you signed up...?

 

 

David (aka Morpheus)

[jamie92208]

I shall have to remember this in order to wind up the operators of the next P4 exhibition layout I see .

That's always easy to do anyway, just ask " Are the trains meant to fall of at every point"

 

Jamie

[Pacific231G]

Errrr. . . . . Just a mo'.

 

I think a model of a model is still technically a model.  But I'm not sure a model of a non-existent "thing" can be considered a model, since actually it's an original. . . . . . . . . . . . . .      See the OED.

 

Or am I being too picky. . . . .

According to my OED a model is "a representation in three dimensions of a projected or existing structure or material object." No mention of scale nor of how close a representation it can be to remain a model and not the object it's representing which doesn't actually have to exist.

So in this exchange from Ripping Yarns

Mr. Ellis: It's a bit big for a model, isn't it?

Tomkinson: It's a full-scale model, sir.

Mr. Ellis: [annoyed] It's not a model if it's full-scale, Tomkinson, it's an icebreaker.

 

Tompkinson could claim to be quite correct and the actual icebreaker it wasa full scale model of didn't even have to exist.

So is Tornado an actual LNER Peppercorn Class A1 (even though it wasn't built by the LNER) or a full scale, fully functioning model of an LNER Peppercorn Class A1 that never actually existed ?

 

Answers on a postcard please to the Amalgamated Union of Philosophers, Sages, Luminaries and other Professional Thinking Persons.

 

Of course, if you're being really pedantic many of our models are representations in four dimensions because they change with time.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Pacific231G

[Jol Wilkinson]

I shall have to remember this in order to wind up the operators of the next P4 exhibition layout I see .

You might not get lynched but you would get a YAP badge.

[Andy Reichert]

 

According to my OED a model is "a representation in three dimensions of a projected or existing structure or material object." No mention of scale nor of how close a representation it can be to remain a model and not the object it's representing which doesn't actually have to exist.

So in this exchange from Ripping Yarns

Mr. Ellis: It's a bit big for a model, isn't it?

Tomkinson: It's a full-scale model, sir.

Mr. Ellis: [annoyed] It's not a model if it's full-scale, Tomkinson, it's an icebreaker.

 

Tompkinson could claim to be quite correct and the actual icebreaker it wasa full scale model of didn't even have to exist.

So is Tornado an actual LNER Peppercorn Class A1 (even though it wasn't built by the LNER) or a full scale, fully functioning model of an LNER Peppercorn Class A1 that never actually existed ?

 

Answers on a postcard please to the Amalgamated Union of Philosophers, Sages, Luminaries and other Professional Thinking Persons.

 

Of course, if you're being really pedantic many of our models are representations in four dimensions because they change with time.

 

 

I was using the "shorter" OED. It's only a "finescale" model of the real OED.

 

Andy

 

PS who says time is the fourth dimension? It might be the first or the fourteenth, or worse still, the last. . . . .

 

PPS Don't even think about what "projected" might mean in terms of ficticious geography . . . . .

Edited June 18, 2014 by Andy Reichert

[David Bigcheeseplant]

When working on the Wild Swan stand at Expo EM we pop the books into Scalefourum bags!

[jcm@gwr]

I appear to have lost the ability to 'reply quoting post'!

 

So, in reply to Pacific231G's post, re- Answers on a postcard, etc.'

 

Would that be FAO Bruce?

 

(I know, it looses something in translation!)

 

Jeff

[Pacific231G]

I appear to have lost the ability to 'reply quoting post'!

 

So, in reply to Pacific231G's post, re- Answers on a postcard, etc.'

 

Would that be FAO Bruce?

 

(I know, it looses something in translation!)

 

Jeff

I think you may be confusing the Philosophy Department of the University of Woolloomooloo, who AFAIK never turned themselves into white mice, with the pan dimensional beings whose ancestors from the Cruxwan University were spokespersons for the AUPSAL&PTP union. They did project themselves as white mice for several million years in order to find the ultimate question and so get to appear on fashionable chat shows. The Wooloomooloo Philosophy Department just made up drinking songs about more famous philosophers which was probably far more fun and arguably more productive .

Edited June 18, 2014 by Pacific231G

[Horsetan]

... where has the rigour gone ?

It's more like rigor mortis.

 

....Would that be FAO Bruce?..

...or possibly LMFAO Bruce. Edited June 18, 2014 by Horsetan

[C&WR]

 

(Last I heard the three operators were all huddled in a corner of the local pub. mumbling and knocking back B52's).

 

 

I had a really fun afternoon...

 

Edited to remove something someone plainly didn't appreciate!

Edited June 19, 2014 by C&WR

[Satan's Goldfish]

I had a really fun afternoon...

 

Edited to remove something someone plainly didn't appreciate!

 

Clearly some human misery has occured here, and i missed it now i'm upset.

[Boris]

Clearly some human misery has occured here, and i missed it now i'm upset.

 

Let's create some more!

 

How about arriving at RMweb live and asking the way to Borises urinating up the wall competition?

 

[hornbyandbf3fan]

Let's create some more!

 

How about arriving at RMweb live and asking the way to Borises urinating up the wall competition?

 

Time for another topic to be locked then?

 

I don't think Andy would be too impressed, especially since he will have to clean it up....

[ian]

He could always organise a urinating up Boris competition instead.

[Boris]

He could always organise a urinating up Boris competition instead.

 

I think I'd enjoy a getting Boris tiddly competition more!

[hornbyandbf3fan]

I think I'd enjoy a getting Boris tiddly competition more!

In that case, how about a sicking up the wall competition

[Black Sheep]

Let's create some more!

 

How about arriving at RMweb live and asking the way to Borises urinating up the wall competition?

 

Some fake signs need to be made and put up for this that simply lead people round in a figure of 8 (more amusing than a circle and we're able to deny that they were lead in a circle)

[andytrains]

Get hold of the PA system at an exhibition and announce,

"Tony Blair, David Cameron and Nick Clegg are the three greatest leaders of all time".

Then run for you life.