RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted October 13, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) I am looking at a possible failure of the one signal I've installed so far. Switched on the layout this evening, found that the signal wasn't operating although the LED remains very dimly lit, on but much less bright than normal. I've double checked all feeds and verified that the power supply is functioning normally, so it is a bit puzzling. I'll keep poking around but I wonder if anyone else has seen the same sort of failure. Edit - rechecked all wiring, totally dead today, even the LED has gone out. Edited October 14, 2012 by Barry Ten Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted October 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) As a follow-up to the above, I'm happy to report that my signal is now working properly. Although I swear I checked everything, something in my electrical supply must have been disturbed at some point because last night I swapped over a plug to run my drill, and when I popped the plug back at the end of the evening the signal came to back to life. I have since switched the power on and off several times and the signal is working as it should. Apologies to Dapol for the potential misinformation, not really helpful with a new product. Edited October 22, 2012 by Barry Ten 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 (edited) Hi Guys.....a question, but apologies if it has been covered on this thread previously..... Can you use the existing push to make buttons on a conventional point control panel......i.e. wire to the signal using the same button as does the point. So that when you change the point, it changes the signal at the same time. Bob. Edited November 4, 2012 by 250BOB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted November 4, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 4, 2012 (edited) Hi Guys.....a question, but apologies if it has been covered on this thread previously..... Can you use the existing push to make buttons on a conventional point control panel......i.e. wire to the signal using the same button as does the point. So that when you change the point, it changes the signal at the same time. Bob. Electrically they would have to be kept seperate in that the signal has two wires that need to be connected together briefly to get the signal to change state. Neither of these wires are part of the power supply circuit as they would be for a point motor. The point (I'm assuming peco type twin solenoid motors) would have a pulse from the switch - and power supply - to throw it one way and then a pulse from a second switch to throw it the other way. Thus the point only needs a single press to throw it one way, the signal would need a second press of the button to make it revert to the stop position. Basically what I'm saying is "no", add seperate buttons for the signals rather than trying to tie them directly to the point control. Andi Edited November 4, 2012 by Dagworth 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Electrically they would have to be kept seperate in that the signal has two wires that need to be connected together briefly to get the signal to change state. Neither of these wires are part of the power supply circuit as they would be for a point motor. The point (I'm assuming peco type twin solenoid motors) would have a pulse from the switch - and power supply - to throw it one way and then a pulse from a second switch to throw it the other way. Thus the point only needs a single press to throw it one way, the signal would need a second press of the button to make it revert to the stop position. Basically what I'm saying is "no", add seperate buttons for the signals rather than trying to tie them directly to the point control. Andi Thanks Andi................advice taken, understood completely. Much appreciated. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted November 6, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 6, 2012 I am looking at a possible failure of the one signal I've installed so far. Switched on the layout this evening, found that the signal wasn't operating although the LED remains very dimly lit, on but much less bright than normal. I've double checked all feeds and verified that the power supply is functioning normally, so it is a bit puzzling. I'll keep poking around but I wonder if anyone else has seen the same sort of failure. Edit - rechecked all wiring, totally dead today, even the LED has gone out. As a follow-up to the above, I'm happy to report that my signal is now working properly. Although I swear I checked everything, something in my electrical supply must have been disturbed at some point because last night I swapped over a plug to run my drill, and when I popped the plug back at the end of the evening the signal came to back to life. I have since switched the power on and off several times and the signal is working as it should. Apologies to Dapol for the potential misinformation, not really helpful with a new product. I'm glad your signal has revived itself. I had the self-same issue with the (only) Dapol N gauge signal I bought. It worked about 6 times and then went into the state yours first did. Sadly mine never recovered. Not feeling this was acceptable for a £25 product I returned it and got my money back. Now I am using Ekcon/Berko colour light signals. Much cheaper, more reliable, and closer to scale. Izzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted November 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 6, 2012 I'm glad your signal has revived itself. I had the self-same issue with the (only) Dapol N gauge signal I bought. It worked about 6 times and then went into the state yours first did. Sadly mine never recovered. Not feeling this was acceptable for a £25 product I returned it and got my money back. Now I am using Ekcon/Berko colour light signals. Much cheaper, more reliable, and closer to scale. Izzy I'm still not sure what went on, but the Dapol signal has been fine ever since. Since the power supply was working with everything else (it runs my Tortoises and a DC hand controller) I wonder if there was some noise in the supply that was causing problems. In any case, all now well. Incidentally my local model shop has been running a Dapol signal using a push to make button and they've had no difficulties. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steam in 50s Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Just as a matter of interest you understand all five of mine so far are still working ok. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Hi everyone, Just finalising the GWR round post signals in N and OO, and have had a brain F**t , silver or white finish posts? or both? cheers Dave 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted December 12, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 12, 2012 Easy enough to repaint but I would rather have silver. Are the bracket signals coming at the same time as the round post ones? Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy1963 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Hi everyone, Just finalising the GWR round post signals in N and OO, and have had a brain F**t , silver or white finish posts? or both? cheers Dave Silver posts in my opinion for the BR Western region. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Is it worth asking how far down the production schedule the O gauge signals are? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Brackets and O gauge signals are still some months away i'm afraid. As for painting them silver, i think i'd like to have some white ones (if someone can let me know they definately happened) so that we can sell the 2 colours if possible. Cheers Dave 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 No problem Dave, I'll leave a gap in my scenery at the end of the platform (which I haven't built yet) next to the track I haven't laid yet, in anticipation of one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Silver or aluminium? Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 12, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 12, 2012 Brackets and O gauge signals are still some months away i'm afraid. As for painting them silver, i think i'd like to have some white ones (if someone can let me know they definately happened) so that we can sell the 2 colours if possible. Cheers Dave The original GW colour scheme used white but this was changed to aluminium (not 'silver', and not the same shade of aluminium that was used by the ER and NER[egion]). What I cannot date is when the change was made by the WR (or even the GWR?) to using aluminium instead of white but it cannot have been very long after the war as white painted metal posts don't seem to have lasted very long into the 1950s and I think the painting cycle was around the 5 year mark (but cannot be certain). White reappeared on metal posts on lines taken over by the LMR but in that case the areas which had been black under GWR/WR painting were now painted in the dismal pale grey colour which the LMR seemed so fond of. As far as I'm concerned they can be any colour you like - as long as it's aluminium 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 ...What I cannot date is when the change was made by the WR (or even the GWR?) to using aluminium instead of white but it cannot have been very long after the war as white painted metal posts don't seem to have lasted very long into the 1950s and I think the painting cycle was around the 5 year mark (but cannot be certain)... A quick flick through Vaughan found a white tubular post example in 1944 and several aluminium ones in 1948. Given that the GWR had started using them around 1930 (late 20s?) and white ones might persist until the early 50s, perhaps there is a good case for producing the model in both colours? Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 12, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 12, 2012 A quick flick through Vaughan found a white tubular post example in 1944 and several aluminium ones in 1948. Given that the GWR had started using them around 1930 (late 20s?) and white ones might persist until the early 50s, perhaps there is a good case for producing the model in both colours? Nick The original tubular metal post signals - which were probably an experiment more than major change of material and were seemingly very few in number - dated from the early half of the 1930s or thereabouts and had wooden arms. What we think of as the tubular post signal emerged in the late 1930s but was hardly about in large numbers in pre-nationalisation days and there were plenty of signals with wooden posts to be found well into the 1960s. I'm not sure which pattern of steel arm Dapol will be fitting to these signals but as far as I can date it at all the final version (completely flush front with turned over edges top & bottom) dates from c.1947; it seems to have arrived towards the end of the GWR's existence. The earlier pattern of steel arm is noticeably different with the rounded corrugations on the front of the arm at both top and bottom edges - there is nothing to suggest otherwise than that this was the original standard arm for tubular post signals when they entered series production as the standard design (apart from those signals fitted with centre pivot arm of course - they continued to be made from timber until they ceased to be made which was probably the late 1950s/very early'60s - they were definitely still being installed new in the first half of the 50s. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Thanks for clarifying that, Mike. Is there any evidence of tubular posts being used anywhere other than on main lines before nationalisation? Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy1963 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Silver or aluminium? Geoff Endacott If you a do a picture search for signals on the sea wall photo's you will see silver rusty poles, so they were painted silver. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 If you a do a picture search for signals on the sea wall photo's you will see silver rusty poles, so they were painted silver. Silver doesn't rust, but then neither does aluminium. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benn Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 As far as I know from books I've got and pictures I've seen, either are 'legal', though silver does seem to be far more widespread, but if you actually want to produce both colours Dave then it doesn't matter, go for it, how can we persuade you otherwise from allowing the modellers to choose in the shop for once?! I personally would like silver mind... I'll be interested to see that matt silver/brushed ali colour anyway, can't be that easy to replicate in N. Looking forward to those brackets though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 13, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) Thanks for clarifying that, Mike. Is there any evidence of tubular posts being used anywhere other than on main lines before nationalisation? Nick I don't know when it arrived there but the Down Starting signal at Shiplake on the Henley branch had an enamel arm very clearly dated (in the enamel on the top flange) 1947 although obviously the arm might not have been used immediately and might well have been part of Reading's careful pre-nationalisation ordering policy. Otherwise I'm afraid it's just a matter of searching reliably dated pics. And mention of the rust on the seawall signals is simply a reminder that the posts were made of steel - and steel rusts. Reading normally despatched steel posts painted in primer or sometimes in a sort of greenish grey undercoat (which might simply have been another sort of primer?) and final painting was done on site. Easy enough to damage or scrape away bits of paint as a signal was erected and next to the sea the rusting process would have started more or less immediately and probably couldn't be got rid of when the next coat of paint arrive some years later. Incidentally the Humbrol 'aluminium' colour as available back in the 1960s was an exact match for WR aluminium signal paint when newly applied (don't ask how I know) Edited December 13, 2012 by The Stationmaster 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy1963 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Silver doesn't rust, but then neither does aluminium. Geoff Endacott Steel under silver paint on the sea wall does rust. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewlisle Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I have just found this forum and after reading it was surprised how some contributors are never satisfied. Personally, I think these signals are what modellers have waited for for many years. Thanks and well done Dapol. However to sum up the comments (good and bad) about Dapol's announcement to make semaphore signals, can be done by using the light hearted analogy of a tree swing as set out below: IMG.pdf 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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