Kirkby Luneside (Original): End of the line....

[uax6]

Can't wait to see your 'industrial' landscape then!

 

As to S&C train formation from the book, a bit disappionted as I can only give details of MR formations from the book, the laters are just mentioned as trains..... anyway, seems I've found them you lot can have them too....

 

1876 Bradford to leeds. Tank engine + 6 off compo's +2 off 1st + brake 3rd + luggage van

        12.08am Carlisle to St Pan express. Engine and tender + Brakevan + Pullman +3 off Compo's +brakevan

 

1878 Up Scotch Express. Engine 901 + 2 off guards vans + Pullman (Enterprise) + 5 carriages + guards van

 

1882 9.15pm Sunday Oct 29th Down Scotch express. Engine and tender  horsebox + guards van +NBR 3rd + bogie comp + 2 off Pullman sleepers (Enterprise + Excelsior) + 2 off bogie compo + GSWR 3rd + MR CCT + Guards  van.

 

1910 24th Dec Down Scotch Express. 2-4-0 pilot no 48+ 4-4-0 no 549 +(all on bogies unless said) M&GSW brake 3rd no 237 (brake end leading) M&GSW 3rd no 225 + 2 off MR 12wheel sleepers nos 2765 and 2767 + M&GSW comp no 227 + M&GSW 3rd no 203 + M&GSW brake van no 208 + MR 6 wheel brake van no 337.

 

1913 2nd sept Ex Glasgow/Stranraer. 4-4-0 no 993 + (all bogies again) M&GSW comp no 254 + 2 off MR sleepers nos 2770 and 2777 + M&GSW 3rd no 237 + M&GSW 6 wheel brake van no 204 + M&GSW comp brake no 250 + MR 3rd no 79 + MR sleeper no 2785 + M*GSW 3rd no 227 + M&GSW brake no 208 (349 tons)

 

1913 2nd sept Ex Edinburgh. 4-4-0 no 446 + (all bogie M&NB) 3rd no 123 + comp sleeper no 155 + comp brake no 143 + sleeper no 171 + comp brake no 142 + comp no 122 (245 tons).

 

As most of these details came from accident reports I'll have to see what I can find in later reports! Hopefully they are of some interest to someone out there!

 

Andy G

[ianwales]

Hi all

 

One of the layout plans I have been considering is David Jenkinson's Dent Head Junction

 

 

But, one problem on my mind is can I use this plan and should it be called DH Jct because obviously I can't ask his permission?

 

Ian

[Physicsman]

Hi all

 

One of the layout plans I have been considering is David Jenkinson's Dent Head Junction

 

img021.jpg

 

But, one problem on my mind is can I use this plan and should it be called DH Jct because obviously I can't ask his permission?

 

Ian

 

Ian, re. your first post. I'm amazed the driver has any say in the matter if you can cite safety issues, with a catching passenger train.... but what do I know?

 

As far as the layout is concerned, I think you could use it exactly as it is - though it might be fun to change a few things to add your own individual "take" to it. As for the name, well I don't think that's copyrighted either. The only restriction, as I see it, would be if you published the trackplan using a diagram taken directly from one of his books/publications. If you re-draw it, using eg. Anyrail, or by hand, you could do what you liked with it.

 

If the model matches the prototype, well there's no problem whatever.

 

Jeff

[The Stationmaster]

Hi all

 

One of the layout plans I have been considering is David Jenkinson's Dent Head Junction

 

img021.jpg

 

But, one problem on my mind is can I use this plan and should it be called DH Jct because obviously I can't ask his permission?

 

Ian

Surely nothing wrong with copying the track layout in a plan (otherwise all British double track models would have to run on the right instead of copying prototype practice??) and in any case some of it is 'watered down' Hellifield anyway.  And the name is whatever you choose surely?

[Physicsman]

Andy (uax6). If you can find any train formations for the period 1955 - 1968, I think that'd be useful to both myself and Mike61680 (Dent Station). Anything outside this time isn't particularly relevant to KL, so don't worry about it. Thanks for your efforts.

 

If I didn't have to do the electrics I'd start on the hillside tomorrow. Nevermind, plenty to look forward to - and I need to re-stock with screws!!

 

Jeff

Edited January 17, 2013 by Physicsman

[Physicsman]

Surely nothing wrong with copying the track layout in a plan (otherwise all British double track models would have to run on the right instead of copying prototype practice??) and in any case some of it is 'watered down' Hellifield anyway.  And the name is whatever you choose surely?

 

My take exactly, Mike. Now if Mike says it's ok, then it IS ok.

 

Cheers Mike.

 

Jeff

[The Stationmaster]

Hi Andy

 

Even if I waved at the trains the drivers wouldn't see anyway because we have "one way" glass in the panel,

 

As an aside(and sorry to clog your thread Jeff) I had a strange incident this week, I had a late running freight with a passenger catching it up so I set the road into a loop intending to let the passenger pass the freight, the freight stopped at the entrance signal and the driver came on the phone saying his diagram didn't show his train as being looped so he catagorically refused to go into the loop to let the passenger past.

 

Ian

 

Hmm, I'd have immediately reported him to Control and submitted a report inquiring what his recent 'working over' record was?  Bloke (assuming it's a bloke of course out to be taken off for a few days unless he had a legitimate reason such as the modern equivalent of a 29973 form saying he wasn't permitted in the loop with the train he was working.  Incidentally of course traincrew diagrams aren't the reference for which lines they should run over - and never have been.

[uax6]

Hi Andy

 

Even if I waved at the trains the drivers wouldn't see anyway because we have "one way" glass in the panel,

 

As an aside(and sorry to clog your thread Jeff) I had a strange incident this week, I had a late running freight with a passenger catching it up so I set the road into a loop intending to let the passenger pass the freight, the freight stopped at the entrance signal and the driver came on the phone saying his diagram didn't show his train as being looped so he catagorically refused to go into the loop to let the passenger past.

 

Ian

Don't you just love drivers? Down here they refuse to shut crossing gates, which we have to ask them to do at least once a week (once a day at least in harvest time!) I'm not sure they realise that if you ask them and they refuse, the delays then go to the TOC!

 

Getting cold here now, can't wait for the snow tommorrow!

 

Andy G

[Physicsman]

I think we've now created a Lunesters "subforum" made up of BR or ex-BR-related employees. Go to it lads, and give 'em hell.

 

The discussion doesn't do anything for my confidence in the safety of trains on the line.

 

Bet it never happened on the S&C!!

 

Jeff

Edited January 17, 2013 by Physicsman

[uax6]

Ian, go for it! It looks like an arrangement that would have a lot of operating scope. I'm quite tempted by all this Midland stuff, but then I've sold my soul to the HR!

 

Andy g

[uax6]

Jeff,

 

Have you ever asked yourself why so many railway people drive around in their job???? We know better!

 

I'll have a look and see what I can dig up for the later period for you... I'm off to the railways archive as I type (in another window).

 

Andy G

[ianwales]

Hmm, I'd have immediately reported him to Control and submitted a report inquiring what his recent 'working over' record was?  Bloke (assuming it's a bloke of course out to be taken off for a few days unless he had a legitimate reason such as the modern equivalent of a 29973 form saying he wasn't permitted in the loop with the train he was working.  Incidentally of course traincrew diagrams aren't the reference for which lines they should run over - and never have been.

 

 

I did, and they reported him to his own control, eventually he had 4 trains sat at successive signals behind him. he was adamant he wasn't going to move unless I gave him the signal along the main line so i did by rerouting him down the main line, but, only 1 signal section and then ran passenger through the loop around him!

 

Ian

 

Ian

[Physicsman]

Cheers Andy and Ian.

 

There's something about signalmen that makes you very helpful people! 

 

The input and resources I've received from you two has been fantastic. That Excel file alone was worth a year's subscription to the Lunesters, Ian. Btw, Andy - you'll kill me for this. I did already have the Jenkinson passenger train articles. Sorry if you had to re-scan them.

 

Ian, the Jenkinson layout looks good - and if he built it then you can guarantee it was a good plan. Looks very large though - 21' if each square is 12". How much space do you have?

 

Btw, for those impatient for something new on KL - see what turns up tomorrow or Saturday!

 

Jeff

[uax6]

Jeff, don't worry those scans were stored on the hard disc (must copy them to DVD's mind).

 

Not having much luck with more train formations, the reports seem to be a bit hit and miss!

Need a book with photos of the period so I can work them out..

 

Andy G

[uax6]

some more modern ones, sorry they are a bit patchy in places!

 

1930 6th March 08.5am Hellifield to Carlisle. Claughton 5971 + 4 bogie coaches with a 6 wheel brake van as 2nd in the formation.

 

1931 3rd Jan 12 noon LNER Edinburgh to St Pan. Shire 4-4-0 2758 + brake 3rd 3370 * +  brake compo 32525 * + comp restaurant car 12wheeled 32282 +  open 3rd 3181 + brake 3rd 3463 +  3rd 128 + comp 76 (* denotes fitted with pullman gangway, all other with british standard ones.)

 

1937 11th Jul 1244pm carlisle to St Pan. Compound 1010 + LNER 6 wheel yeast van 727605 + LMS corridor brake 3rd 5192 + LMS corr 3rd 1381 + LMS vestibule 3rd 7713 + MR 1st diner 91 + LNWR corr compo 9110 + LMS corr brake 3rd 5450

 

1952 18th Apr  4p 4-4-0 + 7p 2-6-0 + 10 coaches, 1,2,3,8 & 9 are Mk1's

 

1955 22nd Dec 9.5pm st pan to edinburgh. loco + 7vans and 5 coaches. 2nd vehicle bogie brake, 3rd vehicle 6wh parcels van, then from rear two bogie brake vans then two sleepers.

 

1955 22nd dec 9.15pm st pan to glas. 7P 4-6-0 + 10 bogies, including 4 ordinary and 3 sleepers.

 

1960 21st jan St Enoch to St pan. Brit 70052 + BTK + 2nd + 2nd + comp + 2nd sleeper + 1st Sleeper + 1st sleeper+ brake van All mk 1's.

 

Sadly thats all I've got at the minute.....

 

Andy G

[uax6]

Cheers Andy and Ian.

 

There's something about signalmen that makes you very helpful people! 

 

The input and resources I've received from you two has been fantastic. That Excel file alone was worth a year's subscription to the Lunesters, Ian. Btw, Andy - you'll kill me for this. I did already have the Jenkinson passenger train articles. Sorry if you had to re-scan them.

 

Ian, the Jenkinson layout looks good - and if he built it then you can guarantee it was a good plan. Looks very large though - 21' if each square is 12". How much space do you have?

 

Btw, for those impatient for something new on KL - see what turns up tomorrow or Saturday!

 

Jeff

 

We try our best.. We are the ones that keep the railway working you know!

 

DJ's layouts were quite big, I whish I had seen the little long drag! (It must have been a big old building that one!)

 

My brother 'plays trains' on a 7mm layout somewhere near Shropshire that is in a barn and is huge!  If only i had some money, I'd buy something big for my toys!

 

Andy G

[Physicsman]

Thanks Andy. The last configuration from 1960 with the Britannia could be useful.

 

As far as large layouts are concerned, we all want more and more space. The same with gardens - I like designing and then doing the build/landscaping (concrete, bricks, pond, patios etc) on them. Myself. I don't want anyone else involved. So the available time (and money) that you can put in limits what you can actually do yourself.

 

It's a contentious issue. I could enjoy working on a club layout, but I'd rather build my own thing. Even if there are faults, at least I can say they were my own.

 

And isn't it GREAT FUN when you solve the challenges that face you?

 

Jeff

[uax6]

And isn't it GREAT FUN when you solve the challenges that face you?

 

Jeff

 

Indeed it is, and then you stick it on here, and we all come up with another 100 ways of doing the same thing... ;-}

 

Are we all looking forward to the snow? I know I am, the more the better!

 

Andy G

[ChrisN]

Can't wait to see your 'industrial' landscape then!

 

As to S&C train formation from the book, a bit disappionted as I can only give details of MR formations from the book, the laters are just mentioned as trains..... anyway, seems I've found them you lot can have them too....

 

1876 Bradford to leeds. Tank engine + 6 off compo's +2 off 1st + brake 3rd + luggage van

        12.08am Carlisle to St Pan express. Engine and tender + Brakevan + Pullman +3 off Compo's +brakevan

 

1878 Up Scotch Express. Engine 901 + 2 off guards vans + Pullman (Enterprise) + 5 carriages + guards van

 

1882 9.15pm Sunday Oct 29th Down Scotch express. Engine and tender  horsebox + guards van +NBR 3rd + bogie comp + 2 off Pullman sleepers (Enterprise + Excelsior) + 2 off bogie compo + GSWR 3rd + MR CCT + Guards  van.

 

1910 24th Dec Down Scotch Express. 2-4-0 pilot no 48+ 4-4-0 no 549 +(all on bogies unless said) M&GSW brake 3rd no 237 (brake end leading) M&GSW 3rd no 225 + 2 off MR 12wheel sleepers nos 2765 and 2767 + M&GSW comp no 227 + M&GSW 3rd no 203 + M&GSW brake van no 208 + MR 6 wheel brake van no 337.

 

1913 2nd sept Ex Glasgow/Stranraer. 4-4-0 no 993 + (all bogies again) M&GSW comp no 254 + 2 off MR sleepers nos 2770 and 2777 + M&GSW 3rd no 237 + M&GSW 6 wheel brake van no 204 + M&GSW comp brake no 250 + MR 3rd no 79 + MR sleeper no 2785 + M*GSW 3rd no 227 + M&GSW brake no 208 (349 tons)

 

1913 2nd sept Ex Edinburgh. 4-4-0 no 446 + (all bogie M&NB) 3rd no 123 + comp sleeper no 155 + comp brake no 143 + sleeper no 171 + comp brake no 142 + comp no 122 (245 tons).

 

As most of these details came from accident reports I'll have to see what I can find in later reports! Hopefully they are of some interest to someone out there!

 

Andy G

 

I assume the dates are years and not train running numbers?  I would have thought that 1882 was a bit early for bogies but I am willing to be proved wrong.  Do you know if the others were 4 or 6 wheelers?

 

Thanks

[ianwales]

Cheers Andy and Ian.

 

There's something about signalmen that makes you very helpful people! 

 

Jeff

 

 

Thats what we keep telling drivers, but, they don't believe us!!

 

Ian

[ianwales]

Ian, the Jenkinson layout looks good - and if he built it then you can guarantee it was a good plan. Looks very large though - 21' if each square is 12". How much space do you have?

 

 

Jeff

 

 

Hi Jeff

 

I have 22ft of length inclusive of the end curves so my plan won't sprawl as much, part of the compression will result from using Peco points which are not as long as scale ones which DJ used.

 

Ian

[uax6]

I assume the dates are years and not train running numbers?  I would have thought that 1882 was a bit early for bogies but I am willing to be proved wrong.  Do you know if the others were 4 or 6 wheelers?

 

Thanks

You are correct in saying that the leading four numbers are years and as the Pullmans were always on trucks (Bogies to us!) (except for Balmoral and it's twin) I would say that even some of the 1876 trains <could> of had MR bogies on them, but I don't think they did. I'll look up at home tonight and report tomorrow when the first bogie appeared on the MR.

 

Sadly without looking up the accident report (which I can do if you want and see if the railway archive website has it) I don't know. Theres also a chance that the report won't tell you.

 

Reminds me that i must letter up my MR 6wheeler and put some couplings on it.....

 

Andy G

[67A]

Hi Chris.

 

I suspect I will end up building them brick by brick. I know it's time-consuming but, if I can make a range of different sized stones, that's what I'll do. I've got plenty of sheep already - though I may need a few more!

 

Mike,

 

Can you let me know the supplier you used on eBay, please? Might have a look and see what's available!

 

Cheers,

 

Hi Jeff,

 

Link below to the stone walling, its £4.40 + £3.65 P&P for 60 pieces! and its not bad either, a bit smaller than the Javis version but I think it will give a bit of depth of field if placed further back.

 

http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/off-the-rails2012/&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2754

 

If the link does not work: search: model railways: stone walling

and it will be about the 2nd listed.

 

Still no modelling done today, getting withdrawal symtoms especially reading all these posts on KL!!!

Cheers

mike

 

 

Jeff

[ChrisN]

You are correct in saying that the leading four numbers are years and as the Pullmans were always on trucks (Bogies to us!) (except for Balmoral and it's twin) I would say that even some of the 1876 trains <could> of had MR bogies on them, but I don't think they did. I'll look up at home tonight and report tomorrow when the first bogie appeared on the MR.

 

Sadly without looking up the accident report (which I can do if you want and see if the railway archive website has it) I don't know. Theres also a chance that the report won't tell you.

 

Reminds me that i must letter up my MR 6wheeler and put some couplings on it.....

 

Andy G

 

Andy,

Thank you.  Don't go to any trouble, it was more of a generic question.  I modell 009 at the moment but when we move I will probably need a 00 layout to run the most famous E2 in the world.  (Grandchildren you see.)  Although the layout is set in Wales in 1895 and therefore in Cambrian territory the rolling stock available is all etched brass, and I do not solder (yet) and the locos are of the same type.

 

This means that it is likely to run stock from the GWR or LWSR, or even the LNWR.  As the locos are the main problem I will probably use R-T-R which would put it forward into the first ten years of this last century.  I know bogie stock was coming in more then for main lines, but not so much on branch lines.

 

Also, I suppose it is due to my narrow gauge influence, I just like 4 & 6 wheel coaches.

 

Finally, if I remember rightly there was a photo of you on Littleport Signal box.  Well, that is where my future daughter-in-law comes from, although she has moved away from home.

[Physicsman]

You lot never cease to amaze me! I entertain my brother for an hour and when I come back there's another ten posts. Incredible....

 

Mike - thanks for the info, I'll have a look. I know how you feel about the modelling. If it's any consolation, I haven't done any, either. Some work will definitely be done over the next two days and I've promised to photograph the results. Even if it's not spectacular it'll encourage me to do something!

 

Jeff