Kirkby Luneside (Original): End of the line....

[Physicsman]

Cheers Andy.

 

Bit of snow here - maybe a cm, but not too bad. Glad to here your mum's recovered!

 

Jonathan requested some more pictures - and since nothing new has been done in the last 3-4 days I'll just take a couple of wide angle shots of the board and track. Pretty boring, but breaks up all the text. Will take them in a min after I get the kettle on.

 

I should be able to get SOMETHING moving by the weekend. If I partially fit the track bus - when the wire arrives - I can connect a few straights. Then I'll take my 20 and the 09 "test shunter" into the bunker for a play!

 

In the meantime I'm going to put a couple more of Dave's (unravelled) wonderful black and white S&C photos up. I have his permission to do this - what a great bunch of people you lot are. Enjoy...

 

Jeff

[Jason T]

For track testing, I would recommend the crappest running, shortest wheelbase loco you have Jeff. As the 20 has pickups on both bogies, it's likely that one of the bogies will be on a powered section so if the frog is not charged, it won't show (put it this way, before I wired up my turnouts I was able to run a class 25 over them with no issues, even though the frog was completely dead). Dig out an 08 or similar.

[Physicsman]

No credit to me for these, cheers Dave - a showcase of wonderful steam on the S&C!!

 

 

 

 

 

Jeff

 

 

[MichaelW]

That is a brilliant photo Jeff! 

 

It makes very clear a point Richard Johnson discussed with me before Xmas - that the vegetation circa 1930-50 is very different to what we see in 2013. 

 

I'd never imagined that vista of Blea Moor without the pine forest above the portal - it's how I've always seen it. But there it is in black and white: sparse, and treeless.

 

Also note the FB rail.... 

 

Do you have any date for that image?

 

Plenty of food for though there, I'd say!

 

Scott

 

Good point about the flat bottom rail Scott.  I'd been admiring the neatness of the Pway, particularly the edge to the ballast and the cess.  Despite noticing the evenness of the joints in the rail, I hadn't spotted it was FB.  I didn't realise that FB was laid as jointed, I'd always assumed it was only ever used as CWR.

 

Another point about the vegetation - notice how on railway land it looks to be just grass, none of the heather and scrub that appears in the later photo.  You can tell that the lengthmen really took pride in the appearance of their sections of the empire.

[Physicsman]

For track testing, I would recommend the crappest running, shortest wheelbase loco you have Jeff. As the 20 has pickups on both bogies, it's likely that one of the bogies will be on a powered section so if the frog is not charged, it won't show (put it this way, before I wired up my turnouts I was able to run a class 25 over them with no issues, even though the frog was completely dead). Dig out an 08 or similar.

 

Good advice Jason. I have a couple of 08s and an 09 I can stick on there. The Hornby 8 is a super runner, so I'll let that have its head!

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Interesting point lads. Look how neat the track area is on all those photos. Immaculately maintained, even if the engines are looking (very nicely) grubby.

 

Dave tells me the pics date from 1965-1968.

 

Jeff

[aberdare]

Hi Jeff

 

They are great pictures of the old line. I do wonder if the cleanliness of the lineside at that time was to minimise fire risk in those remote areas - just a thought - and when steam was phased out there was no longer any further need to maintain it, maybe someone with far greater knowledge than I could enlighten us. I particularly like that fencing on top of the hill in the first photograph as it is a bit unusual, well worth modelling in my opinion.

 

Jim

[Physicsman]

Ok, at Jonathan's request - and to get some more pics on the thread - here is the bunker as of today. There are still 4 or 5 headshunts and a siding spur (in the goods yard) to fit...

 

Hopefully the next month will see LOTS of new stuff.

 

 

 

 

 

Jeff

Edited January 14, 2013 by Physicsman

[Physicsman]

Hi Jeff

 

They are great pictures of the old line. I do wonder if the cleanliness of the lineside at that time was to minimise fire risk in those remote areas - just a thought - and when steam was phased out there was no longer any further need to maintain it, maybe someone with far greater knowledge than I could enlighten us. I particularly like that fencing on top of the hill in the first photograph as it is a bit unusual, well worth modelling in my opinion.

 

Jim

 

Great minds.... I thought that too. Full of character and a bit unusual....

 

Jeff

[Jason T]

It's snow fencing isn't it, to stop the huge amounts of snow falling onto the line?

 

Those photos really demonstrate just how long a run you have Jeff, you lucky man

[Andrew P]

CRICKEY JEFF,  saw those Black and White images and I thought to myself, Jeff had a busy morning, then I scanned further down the thread and saw the baseboard pics and came back to reality.

 

Cheeky Old Lune, hahahha

 

got to do the washing up now so I must go, or I will be whipped with a tea towel, (might enjoy that?)

[Physicsman]

It's snow fencing isn't it, to stop the huge amounts of snow falling onto the line?

 

Those photos really demonstrate just how long a run you have Jeff, you lucky man

 

Yes, it should be fun. It'll hopefully look better when the fell/hillside goes in, as you won't then see it a a large oval.

 

Glad I took those pics and grateful to Dave for his S&C photos. It does inspire you to do more work, doesn't it?

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

CRICKEY JEFF,  saw those Black and White images and I thought to myself, Jeff had a busy morning, then I scanned further down the thread and saw the baseboard pics and came back to reality.

 

Cheeky Old Lune, hahahha

 

got to do the washing up now so I must go, or I will be whipped with a tea towel, (might enjoy that?)

 

Yes Andy. My scenic and weathering skills improved out of all recognition overnight. Amazing what 3 hours sleep can do for you.

 

Thought you'd like the loco pics, Andy. Fires me up just looking at them.

 

Enjoy your washing-up!!   

 

Jason - I'm sure you are right about the fencing.

 

Jeff

[The Stationmaster]

Interesting point lads. Look how neat the track area is on all those photos. Immaculately maintained, even if the engines are looking (very nicely) grubby.

 

Dave tells me the pics date from 1965-1968.

 

Jeff

But the railway back then was like that.  OK so on a few very rundown lines from the late'60s onwards the lineside got messy but generally the cess area was always kept neat and tidy for the simple reason that it had to be in order to provide safe walking and embankments and cuttings were kept under control to prevent the growth of trees and large shrubs which would interfere with drainage and soil stability as well as reducing fire hazard risk.  I don't know how it was done on the LMR but standard WR practice was to burn off embankments and cutting sides twice a year once in Spring and again in the Autumn.

 

All of this sort of attention began to fall by the wayside with teh end of steam traction, well maintained cresses were often inundated as ballast depth was greatly increased for cwr and higher line speeds and so on.  The lineside of today - made even worse by the years of Railtrack mismanagement and penny pinching - is almost no guide whatsoever to the way things were up and into the 1960s and, in some places, the 1970s.

[unravelled]

The black and white pics are from August 1966. These are as scanned, so probably capable of a bit of improvement...

 

As well as better hands on maintenance, I guess that more aggressive weedkillers could be used in those days. I've always wondered how much effect the heat fom a steam loco's ashpan would have on keeping vegetation down.

 

Another trackside feature some of the pics show is the height of signal wire run, perhaps to keep it above normal snow levels?

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[Rowsley17D]

Jeff,

 

Thanks for the pics and a reminder of just what you are up to - great work.

 

Those pics are fantastic and what pride those lengthmen had in their work. I assume there were few women who did this job? I have a book on the Ashbourne-Buxton line and the lineside is just as neat and tidy even though it was only a secondary single branch. Hardly a piece of ballast out of place. Labour was no doubt plentiful and cheap.

[Physicsman]

Jeff,

 

Thanks for the pics and a reminder of just what you are up to - great work.

 

Those pics are fantastic and what pride those lengthmen had in their work. I assume there were few women who did this job? I have a book on the Ashbourne-Buxton line and the lineside is just as neat and tidy even though it was only a secondary single branch. Hardly a piece of ballast out of place. Labour was no doubt plentiful and cheap.

 

In many ways it makes for easier ballasting - simpler to ballast neatly than not. And as Mike implies, such a shame that the railways of today are relatively untidy.

 

Hope to provide more layout photos when the "action starts"!!

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Dave (unravelled), I knew your photos would be greatly appreciated on here. You need to receive a lot more credit - why don't you set up a thread in one of the sections and post all your scanned photos?

 

I think there'd be a very warm welcome from modellers who often spend months hunting down just this sort of thing. I'll tell the rest of you that the pics I've shown are just the tip of the iceberg.

 

A great resource!

 

Jeff

Edited January 14, 2013 by Physicsman

[unravelled]

Thanks, it's good to see them enjoyed. Many of my negatives had been unseen until I scannned them last year. In time they will be on Flickr, but I have a lot of work to tag and caption them to make them useful. I'm using Picasa to do the cataloguing, but it will take time. In the meantime I'll post odd photos to RMweb where useful.

Once I start posting significant sets on Flickr I'll let people know on here. Unfortunately I foolishly cut up many of my 120 negs into individual frames many years ago, so resorting them into chronological(ish) order is taking some time.

 

Dave

[billyb_imp]

Dave (unravelled), I knew your photos would be greatly appreciated on here. You need to receive a lot more credit - why don't you set up a thread in one of the sections and post all your scanned photos?

 

I think there'd be a very warm welcome from modellers who often spend months hunting down just this sort of thing. I'll tell the rest of you that the pics I've shown are just the tip of the iceberg.

 

A great resource!

 

Jeff

Jeff / Dave

 

Wonderful Black & White photographs showing an imaculetlly kept railway, not a MacDonalds bag or coke cola can to be seen anywhere

[Physicsman]

Jeff / Dave

 

Wonderful Black & White photographs showing an imaculetlly kept railway, not a MacDonalds bag or coke cola can to be seen anywhere

 

Yes Billy. Takes you back to a time when MacDonalds didn't exist in this country and people had more respect for authority. no shredded plastic carrier bags littering the landscape either.

 

And with many more people employed on the railways you would expect someone would keep it nice and tidy.

 

Another interesting point is the levels of ballast. The track isn't "deep ballasted" by modern standards - it sometimes appears to be floating on top.

 

Jeff

[ChrisN]

But the railway back then was like that.  OK so on a few very rundown lines from the late'60s onwards the lineside got messy but generally the cess area was always kept neat and tidy for the simple reason that it had to be in order to provide safe walking and embankments and cuttings were kept under control to prevent the growth of trees and large shrubs which would interfere with drainage and soil stability as well as reducing fire hazard risk.  I don't know how it was done on the LMR but standard WR practice was to burn off embankments and cutting sides twice a year once in Spring and again in the Autumn.

 

All of this sort of attention began to fall by the wayside with teh end of steam traction, well maintained cresses were often inundated as ballast depth was greatly increased for cwr and higher line speeds and so on.  The lineside of today - made even worse by the years of Railtrack mismanagement and penny pinching - is almost no guide whatsoever to the way things were up and into the 1960s and, in some places, the 1970s.

 

I remeber as a little lad, either on a train to Norwich or on the line through Stevenage past Hitchin my mum pointing out that the farmland was ploughed clean for about six feet "to stop the crops catching on fire".  I had assumed that this was a common feature but the grass here is down to the permanent way so it was probably more common in arable farming areas.  Is that assumption correct?  My mum was brought up in Hertfordshire and knew the mainline there quite well.

[ChrisN]

It's snow fencing isn't it, to stop the huge amounts of snow falling onto the line?

 

If that is snow fencing, and I do not doubt that it is given its sturdy construction, is the hill it is protecting the railway from, hiding, (yes I've been up mountains where the crest in front of you is the 'top' only to find when you get there a bigger one is hiding behind it, and an even biger one after that), or is it flat the other sidew and so is protecting the railway from blown snow?

[67A]

I've just been sent a collection of marvellous S&C photos taken by Dave (unravelled). In amongst them I found this ABSOLUTE GEM!! Blea Moor North portal - as I modelled before Christmas. But in a very pristine state!

 

Compare Dave's photo with the one I've shown previously:

 

sca005-001.jpg

 

7646615246_9f0ffe7d92_h.jpg

 

Thanks Dave!

 

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Wow!! the difference is astounding, well manicured track and very little vegetation to speak off, I still can't get over that BOULDER above the keystone!

Thanks for sharing.

 

Cheers

Mike

[67A]

Ok, at Jonathan's request - and to get some more pics on the thread - here is the bunker as of today. There are still 4 or 5 headshunts and a siding spur (in the goods yard) to fit...

 

Hopefully the next month will see LOTS of new stuff.

 

100_2528.JPG

 

100_2529.JPG

 

100_2531.JPG

 

100_2532.JPG

 

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

 

What can I say, pictures speak volumes! You can see at glance what all the 3000+ posts are leading toward - a blooming marvellous layout this is going to be, well done for now. No doddling - back to the bunker...

Cheers

mike