Andrew P Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Hi Mate, glad you sorted out your running problem and are a happy bunny again. As for Old Lune Fell, well I am back on my feet again and up for being PLASTERED, hahahhaaaaheeee I have been plastering up the club again tonight but I have some 40 feet to worry about I am really looking forward to some more vids mate. All the best, Old Lune Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 19, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19, 2013 Hi Mate, glad you sorted out your running problem and are a happy bunny again. As for Old Lune Fell, well I am back on my feet again and up for being PLASTERED, hahahhaaaaheeee I have been plastering up the club again tonight but I have some 40 feet to worry about I am really looking forward to some more vids mate. All the best, Old Lune Hi Andy. Al has taken a few nice vids of the 9F and coaches crossing the viaduct. The vids are only short, but they show the scale of the loco and viaduct and whet the appetite for future films. Just going out to do a bit of plastering now. Hope you've recovered from your strenuous weekend. You must be knackered - you are never this quiet! Cheers, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 19, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19, 2013 Lune Fell is now almost one entity. 3 main sections joined, a length of 2.7m (9') - a thicker joining plaster coat will go on tomorrow... Meanwhile, wiring will continue - maybe I can get all the droppers under the fiddle yard connected to the bus tomorrow. Then I can head towards the station. Hopefully, Al will get those vids posted tomorrow. That's quite enough for today! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 What this does show is that you really should get everything up and running now before carrying on with the scenery, as resolving such issues will be a lot easier now. Forget the plastering for a while, seriously. I really, really, really want to second this, Jeff! I've always planned to get Stockrington operational early, as I need to find out definitively about The Gradient ThingTM,, but it also applies when scenery is going to be constructed - either way, it's about getting the work-a-day stuff perect and bug free before you then complicate it. As an analogy, you wouldn't have started laying track if your woodwork was not all done and you had a firm place to build, would you? I would pause for a morning, and take stock of how much work there is to get all your running lines wired and operating. The goal would be to have trackwork you can then start ot test each of your loco type with - the 9F is a good place to start, with it's ten-coupled wheelbase, but remember as far as trackwork goes, it's almost an 2-4-2-4-0 with those flangeless centre drivers - you might even find a larger Pacific rides your rails quite differently... Also, have a think about short circuit protection for your DCC, too? It may be worthwhile acquiring a PSX solid state circuit breaker - or two if you wire your layout with two power districts. Have a think about how you will operate the layout - is it likely to be "one engine in steam" or will you have trains on the continuous run whilst shunting K/L with a third? Looking at your track plan, I'm guessing you'll just have the whole lot fed by one bus, but perhaps you can set it up so that if you find shorts (such as you get running wrong way through a DCC turnout) are hampering your enjoyment, you can break out the fiddle yard into a seperate power district later (thus avoiding shutting the whole layout down). Something to mull over this morning's coffee. Cheers Scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyb_imp Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Jeff Good to see you got your gauge problem sorted out, like Jason said (although I am just a novice) you need to ensure all your track is up & running, I am doing mine as I go along in sections & have had a couple of issues, that drove me a bit more lunester It certainly makes you feel good once you have a section of track that you know runs right, I have then been happy to move on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted February 20, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2013 Morning Jeff, what with work, lack of decent broadband in deepest rural North Yorkshire and the techies messing about with servers and things I do not understand, I still have not been able to view the video. Is it on You Tube separately? Things seem to be going well and I too would get the power sorted out before doing any more to the scenery, even if it means Andy will have to wait another day (or two) before there's any grass. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 20, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2013 Lads - thanks for all of your positive advice. Forget about the scenery - that isn't an issue at the moment. I've spent about 25 hours working in the bunker in the last 4 days, and all but one of them was on connecting wiring to the bus and testing the results. The exception being last night, around 11pm, when I needed a break ("change of scenery"? Lol.) The wiring process is going to take me 2-3 weeks. It's just not possible to focus on that one thing - especially with the frustrations that occur - without getting fed up. So a bit of plastering is therapy. It doesn't hinder the other job in any way and is most enjoyable. I've been pleasantly surprised, to date, with how well everything has worked. The electrical continuity is pleasing, given the number of track droppers actually connected. Scott: I'd considered setting up the yard as a separate power district - and this is still a future option. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) ...it's just me wearing my Project Manager's hat, you know - trying to plan 5 jumps ahead. Normally, for the typical UK layout, one district is fine, as it's compact, and not a massive amount of turnouts. But for a room filler (or in your base Bunker-Filler), there is a "tipping point". The thing is, shorts wont normally happen on straight track. If they do, you'd be wanting to re-lay and sort out the track, rather than band-aid it. So generally, derailments and shorts will be where there are turnouts. So the question you should ask then is: "If I have a derailment while operating a train at A, how frustrating will that be if it stops trains at B and C as the same time?" I originally was going to have seperate up and down mainline power buses (!), but realised that was overkill. So I will have a main layout bus, a bus for the MPD (where 75% of my turnouts will be) and a bus for the hidden storage - so that if I run a train the wrong way into a trailing turnout, it wont stop all the fun going on upstars. So yes, I agree the yard would be a good place to isolate. You dont even need to do it straight away - just make sure when you wire up, that you can cut and separate the yard from the rest of the layout bus without too much work. I will probably try and wire Stockrington station as an electrically seperable portion, so that if needed, I can add an extra district there. Cheers Scott Edited February 20, 2013 by jukebox Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) Jeff, As you like formulae, this one appears to be very accurate after an early morning shopping trip today..... Teenage daughters + Clothes shops = -£££ from dad's wallet Anyway, onto more interesting things; S&C train formations. What's the capacity of your fiddle yard roads Jeff; how long will your express passenger trains be? In reality the "Waverley" loaded to 9 and the "Thames-Clyde Express" to 10/11 coaches. Edited February 20, 2013 by Western Sunset 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 20, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2013 No problem, Scott. Separating the yard from the rest - if it became necessary - is literally a snip.... The track bus runs from the fiddle yard side of the viaduct, through the yard and round to the station area, ending up at the opposite side of the viaduct. I think they call it a "radial arrangement". The existing track bus could be chopped into 2 entities - one serving from left viaduct to exit yard, the other serving exit yard to right viaduct. The photos probably make it clearer... I haven't seriously looked at how to set this up, but if needs be, it will be done. Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 20, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) Jeff, As you like formulae, this one appears to be very accurate after an early morning shopping trip today..... Teenage daughters + Clothes shops = -£££ from dad's wallet Anyway, onto more interesting things; S&C train formations. What's the capacity of your fiddle yard roads Jeff; how long will your express passenger trains be? In reality the "Waverley" loaded to 9 and the "Thames-Clyde Express" to 10/11 coaches. The fiddle yard longer roads could hold a loco and 6-7 coaches. However, these would have to be "through" services because KL station can probably only manage a loco and 3 coaches comfortably. Having said that, freight locos will be pulling at least 20 wagons (the yard could hold about that number), so if it's for effect only - on an S&C detour - 6-7 coaches would look nice. Not that I have that many of one livery...I think I have 4 maroon Mk1s, for example. Jeff Edited February 20, 2013 by Physicsman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 The "Waverley" could be represented by 6 coaches: Jubilee + Mk1 BSK, Mk1 FK, LMS RB, Mk1 SK, Mk1 SK, Mk1 BSK The "Thames-Clyde Express" could have 7 coaches: Rebuilt Royal Scot + Mk1 BSK, Mk1 CK, LMS FO, LMS Kitchen, Mk 1 SK, Mk1 SK, Mk1 BSK Early days I know, but something to think about. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 20, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2013 The "Waverley" could be represented by 6 coaches: Jubilee + Mk1 BSK, Mk1 FK, LMS RB, Mk1 SK, Mk1 SK, Mk1 BSK The "Thames-Clyde Express" could have 7 coaches: Rebuilt Royal Scot + Mk1 BSK, Mk1 CK, LMS FO, LMS Kitchen, Mk 1 SK, Mk1 SK, Mk1 BSK Early days I know, but something to think about. Peter, this is potentially useful information. I'll reference this in the Index when I update it. I'm not planning on buying any more coaches at the moment, but once "action" starts on the layout it's inevitable that I will. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted February 20, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) Peter, this is potentially useful information. I'll reference this in the Index when I update it. I'm not planning on buying any more coaches at the moment, but once "action" starts on the layout it's inevitable that I will. Jeff Some good info on the The Laird's Leeds Wellington thread about train formations. Edited February 20, 2013 by Joseph_Pestell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 20, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2013 Some good info on the The Laird's Leeds Wellington thread about train formations. Thanks for the info. Joseph. I'll have a look at The Laird's thread. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 20, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2013 Man goes into his local model shop.... "Yes sir", says the man behind the counter, "can I be of assistance?" The man says "I'm just starting out in railway modelling. I'm told there's 2 ways to go, DC and DCC. I gather DCC is the way forward?...." "Indeed it is sir, I can highly recommend several DCC systems.... and, of course, there is it's inherent simplicity of wiring..." "Oh, what's that then?" "Well, with DCC, at it's basic level, you only need TWO WIRES connected to the track...." REALITY CHECK: I'm a big fan of DCC.... Jeff This is part of the fiddle yard under-board. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Then there's always clockwork..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Man goes into his local model shop.... "Yes sir", says the man behind the counter, "can I be of assistance?" The man says "I'm just starting out in railway modelling. I'm told there's 2 ways to go, DC and DCC. I gather DCC is the way forward?...." "Indeed it is sir, I can highly recommend several DCC systems.... and, of course, there is it's inherent simplicity of wiring..." "Oh, what's that then?" "Well, with DCC, at it's basic level, you only need TWO WIRES connected to the track...." REALITY CHECK: I'm a big fan of DCC.... 100_2771.JPG Jeff This is part of the fiddle yard under-board. This has convinced me, Peter is right , Clockwork is best, now can I do that in N Gauge? En Lune :sungum: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 20, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) Can't leave you lot alone for 5 minutes, can I? Clockwork..... ah, DCC.... Direct Clockwork Control!! Well, DCC is the KEY to everything and that mnemonic was the first thing that SPRINGS to mind (sorry!). Right, I had to widen the entrance throat of another curved turnout. You could hardly see the stock rail move as I melted the solder on each chair. So it probably widened by 0.3-0.5mm. Result = perfect running. I've spent the last hour trying out all the combinations of turnout directions in the fiddle yard. I've run a 9F with 3 coaches forwards and backwards, slowly and at speed through the turnouts, set in different ways. Everything worked well, so as far as I can tell the fiddle yard is sorted. As part of an earlier post, "Power District 1 is AOK". Time for my tea, then I may go and connect some normal droppers to the bus. Jeff Edited February 20, 2013 by Physicsman 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Hi Jeff, I am glad you are sorting out the points, an 08 is fine for current collection testing, but you cant beat a 9F for track geometry and alignment. As was said earlier, now forget the scenics and ensure you track is running to perfection or it will always bug you. Cheers for now Old Lune 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 20, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2013 Evening Andy. Tomorrow's plan is a bit dull, but it'll be satisfying once done. Polarity check/connect 4 more Cobalts to the track bus. Then connect a lot more groups of droppers to the bus. If time I'll have to start running wiring from the control panel area to each Cobalt for point switching. As you say, the running is paramount. Al has just told me he will try to upload the 9F video tomorrow evening. Good to hear from you. Hope you are recovering! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Talking of Cobolts, I saw one of those point levers today, It is enormas, it is about 4 inches tall, YES INCHES NOT MM I could not believe it, I don't know if they do a smaller one. I thought it would be about the size of the old Hornby ones Old Lune Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 20, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2013 Talking of Cobolts, I saw one of those point levers today, It is enormas, it is about 4 inches tall, YES INCHES NOT MM I could not believe it, I don't know if they do a smaller one. I thought it would be about the size of the old Hornby ones Old Lune Yes, I saw the advert in a mag. They look good - maybe an investment for the future. I'm going to investigate some "overload units" and maybe break-up my layout into 2-4 Power "sub-districts", so if a short happens in one area the rest of the layout is unaffected. I think that's a good idea (discussed with Scott earlier) - so may go with it. In the meantime, I'll get more wiring done. In a couple of weeks I may be able to run locos all the way round! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Man goes into his local model shop.... "Yes sir", says the man behind the counter, "can I be of assistance?" The man says "I'm just starting out in railway modelling. I'm told there's 2 ways to go, DC and DCC. I gather DCC is the way forward?...." "Indeed it is sir, I can highly recommend several DCC systems.... and, of course, there is it's inherent simplicity of wiring..." "Oh, what's that then?" "Well, with DCC, at it's basic level, you only need TWO WIRES connected to the track...." REALITY CHECK: I'm a big fan of DCC.... 100_2771.JPG Jeff This is part of the fiddle yard under-board. You must be doing something wrong Jeff, Only two bus wires required ........ Minimalist Lune Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 20, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2013 Maybe I wasn't precise enough.... There are 2 wires connecting the control unit to the track bus. But with nearly 100m of track, there are around 80 pairs of track droppers and 39 pairs of Cobalt droppers that attach to the bus. It's organised - all labelled up, but a lot of wiring. Very neat Ray and I notice you have the copper strip for the bus. I remember ZTC advocating that long before I bought my Lenz system. Jeff (Imprecise Lune!!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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