Kirkby Luneside (Original): End of the line....

[Physicsman]

They say that "good things come to those who wait". I hope it's true. Construction of the 2 viaducts has taken 6 weeks. I suspect it's going to take a week or so to fine-tune the outer coverings. Maybe I'm being picky, but once you start to fill those little gaps in the plastikard, well, a million appear! I think that, in the past, I wasn't as "picky" as I am with these structures. Good job I've got plenty of filler and sandpaper to hand!

 

The 260cm x 40cm backscene board behind the station area has also been fitted. It looks like a large piece of ply on the wall, so I hope you'll forgive me for not taking a photo! not very photogenic - it'll look better when I buy a photographic backscene to fit on it. Oh, those rolling hills!

 

Jeff

[Rowsley17D]

 

The 260cm x 40cm backscene board behind the station area has also been fitted. It looks like a large piece of ply on the wall, so I hope you'll forgive me for not taking a photo! not very photogenic - it'll look better when I buy a photographic backscene to fit on it. Oh, those rolling hills!

 

Jeff

 

Jeff, Can I suggest you pop over to Peters Spares on Riverside Park in 'Boro and take a look at the ID photo back-scenes before you buy? I was thinking of the hills and dales ones for my layout, until events took a turn and it will never be finished now,and thought the production didn't quite look right. They are a vast improvement on the old ones, but to me they looked, well.. washed out. They appear much brighter on the web ads. Just a thought... Jonathan (now back from Nottingham)

[Physicsman]

Jeff, Can I suggest you pop over to Peters Spares on Riverside Park in 'Boro and take a look at the ID photo back-scenes before you buy? I was thinking of the hills and dales ones for my layout, until events took a turn and it will never be finished now,and thought the production didn't quite look right. They are a vast improvement on the old ones, but to me they looked, well.. washed out. They appear much brighter on the web ads. Just a thought... Jonathan (now back from Nottingham)

 

Funny you mention that, Jonathan. I'd never come across the ID material until about 2 weeks ago, when Les (Bishopcombe layout) recommended them, in answer to my query as to what he was using. I've got their website saved, and intend to buy something along those lines - though not immediately as there's too much chaos in the bunker and if I mount the photo it'll inevitably get damaged.

 

No harm in me popping over to Riverside Park and having a look, first-hand, though. Thanks again!!

 

Jeff

 

Ps. Glad you survived your meeting!

[60091]

Hi Jeff

 

Congratulations on your retirement...It's great to start work on the layout at 5 30am and know you've got the whole day ahead of you. When you've got lots of interests and hobbies work only gets in the way! Not sure if I missed a post...have you had the chance to have a ride over the line since finishing work?

 

Great progress on the layout. I've enjoyed reading your deliberations regarding the viaducts and the volume of information and advice from other members. Work on them is looking really good..can't wait to see them in location. I was interested in your decision to use the larger scale stone work which works well and looks right.

 

I've scratch built structures for years, just learning slowly from my mistakes but am now thinking of trying a few new techniques, discussed here and on Sandsides thread, if/when I start the new layout...

 

When you mentioned a book about modelling structures, I would also recommend the DVD mentioned in post 459. The book Stations and Structures of the Settle Carlisle Railway (Anderson and Fox) is also an invaluable source of information.

 

Keep the photos and progress reports coming....Alan

[Physicsman]

Thanks for the comments Alan. I can see why scratchbuilding is so popular. I'll investigate the S&C publication you referenced.

 

Haven't been on the S&C this summer. Quite likely next week. going down to the NRM in York on Tuesday - haven't been in there for years, either!

 

It's bl***y marvellous being able to please yourself with your time. My rise-time is getting earlier...the alarm has been set at 05.04 for the last 3 days. Nice, quiet, fresh...quick cup of coffee then into the bunker for some modelling. Tomorrows schedule starts with rubbing down model filler, before adding even more in other places.

 

It will be great to get the viaduct painted and fixed in position, with the baseboards cut to their final shape and tracklaying underway. Happy days!

 

Jeff

[peach james]

One thing to be aware of is that "Rails in the Fells" isn't 100% accurate as to the building material of some stations- I _know_ Long Marton is wrongly labeled as being a stone structure, when it is in fact, brick. (and I have photos to prove that !)

 

Not quite so serious with you, as either brick or stone are your choices, and it not being "this" station, but "a" station, either would be acceptable.

 

Stations & Structures is a good book- I'm glad I picked up a copy in 2010. If I'd had sense, I'd have done so 15 years before !

 

James

[Physicsman]

Morning James.

 

I had a look for the book on Amazon. 2 used copies available. One, from a seller in the US, is for sale at £87! I don't think I'll be buying a copy, somehow!

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

I realised that I'd forgotten the coping along the top of the viaduct. Just spent a couple of hours cutting out and scribing strips of 40 thou plastikard to make these.

 

Done a bit more rubbing down and filling around the piers. I've never made a structure as large as either viaduct and it's taking ages.

 

I'll post an updated photo or two tomorrow. Won't be painted, but looks a bit different to the last set of photos.

 

Jeff

[Rowsley17D]

Jeff a pic of Hulme End station building in plasticard.

 

[Physicsman]

That's nice, Jonathan. Is the plastikard overlayed onto a card skeleton? Forgive my ignorance - give me a viaduct etc and I'm ok - as I can use a wood base. I'm determined to learn about this, though!

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

As "promised", here are some more viaduct pics for all you viaduct-philes out there.

 

Coping will be fitted on the top later today.

 

Jeff

Edited August 19, 2012 by Physicsman

[Physicsman]

The piers have had an initial rub-down, but more needs to be done. There are some places that need a bit more filler. The arch rings need keystones fitting. Coping, as mentioned above. Bearing these in mind, here are a couple of (slightly) closer shots. They do show up the errors/modelling limitations a bit more - maybe you can overlook them!!!

 

Jeff

Edited August 19, 2012 by Physicsman

[coachmann]

That viaduct is one impressive structure particularly as embossed styrene is not easy to use when it comes to corners. It's a real shame Wills doesnt produce it in its solid plastic mouldings range, as the 4mm market is crying out for an accurate Dressed Stone that would be easier to use where there are corners and window openings.

Edited August 19, 2012 by coachmann

[gordon s]

You really have done a great job with the two viaducts Jeff and I've mentally filed this thread should a viaduct be needed on a layout at some time in the future. Building one on a curve is even more difficult as the pitch of the arches and associated geometry varies from side to side. The arches on yours look perfect.

 

Just a small observation and certainly not a criticism. The parapet walls appear different on each side. The outer on the nearest parapet has two courses of stone and the inner on the rear parapet four? Any reason behind this?

[Physicsman]

You really have done a great job with the two viaducts Jeff and I've mentally filed this thread should a viaduct be needed on a layout at some time in the future. Building one on a curve is even more difficult as the pitch of the arches and associated geometry varies from side to side. The arches on yours look perfect.

 

Just a small observation and certainly not a criticism. The parapet walls appear different on each side. The outer on the nearest parapet has two courses of stone and the inner on the rear parapet four? Any reason behind this?

 

Gordon, you are an incredibly observent chap! The inside of the parapets have 4 courses. The height of the stone there was 1.9cm. I put the stringer course slightly too high, leaving about 1.5cm above it for the outer parapets. The course-width of the bricks on the dressed stone varies, and I chose to do the outer parapets using 2 of the wider courses from the Slaters sheets.

 

I did wonder if anyone would spot that!

 

Btw, I've made (dozens) of coping "slabs" from 40thou plastikard, scaled to 6' x 2' (2.4cm x 8mm). These will be stuck on top of the parapets when I get round to it. The parapet width (MDF plus casings) is about 5mm. I filled the gaps between the inner and outer casings (on top of the MDF) with filler and sanded it down. A few details that may be helpful later!

 

I'm going back out to work on the Branch viaduct now.

 

Thanks for your interest.

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

That viaduct is one impressive structure particularly as embossed styrene is not easy to use when it comes to corners. It's a real shame Wills doesnt produce it in its solid plastic mouldings range, as the 4mm market is crying out for an accurate Dressed Stone that would be easier to use where there are corners and window openings.

 

Morning Larry.

 

Thanks for the comments. The styrene was ok on the Branch viaduct, as the piers there were "square". It was possible to bend the plastikard - gently!! - around the corner. However, the tapered piers on the Main viaduct didn't allow this, so each pier has 4 separate sheets - on its faces and sides. I worried about how well I could get these sheets to "merge", and I've found that rubbing down along the join with medium (grade 70) sandpaper, followed by a fine abrasive (120) causes the styrene to "melt" - or at least deform and mould together (at times I've burnt my fingers with the rubbing!!). Some corrugations remain, but can be filled.

 

I'm not (quite) a perfectionist, but every little defect bugs me - and, as I look, I see plenty! Nevermind, one has to draw the line somewhere. I'm sure you are just the same.

 

Best wishes,

 

Jeff

[gordon s]

Ah, that makes sense then, Jeff...

 

Going back to the geometry of a viaduct on a curve. How did you deal with that or did I miss it earlier in the thread?

 

Are the outer arches a different width/pitch to the inners and the pillars of constant width or have you cut arches of the same width, but on a wider pitch and then used tapered pillars, front to rear to accommodate the differences.

 

It's something I've often thought about and most articles I've seen seem quite vague on this detail, so would like to hear how you achieved.

 

Super job!

Edited August 19, 2012 by gordon s

[Physicsman]

Gordon, I'm going to quote some numbers off the top of my head - I think you'll find the details in earlier posts. So apologies if I'm a bit out!

 

The key thing with a curved viaduct is to keep the arch width constant at both the inner and outer faces. The most common error - apparently - when building a curved structure is to keep the pier widths the same on the outer and inner. Structurally, that would create a cone shaped arch which would collapse fairly quickly.

 

I based my model's dimensions on Ribblehead: approx 100' tall, arch span 45'. That would have meant a viaduct 40cm tall, which I couldn't accommodate. So I scaled down by 75%, so my viaduct height: ground-parapet - is 30cm. Arch widths: 33' or 133mm to scale. The arch width is the same for the inner and outer faces.

 

Then it's just geometry, based on the radius of curvature of the arch. The inside fascia has a radius of about 127cm, the outer 139cm. The double track through will be 130/136cm radius. So the inner piers are approx 127/139 the width of the outer.

 

I drew the inner fascia structure onto 3mm MDF - see around page 10 of the thread - and built the skeleton to fix this on. The outer fascia was drawn out - with constant arch width - to match.

 

I hope this makes some kind of sense. It was a bit scary before I thought it through, but very easy once I started to build the thing. Methodical plodding, I think!

 

Jeff

Edited August 19, 2012 by Physicsman

[gordon s]

Got it. Keep the arch width the same, but widen the pitch on the rear to keep the arches in line and then taper the pillars, front to rear to accept the wider pitch at the back. Having done a fag packet sketch, that seemed logical to me, so may thanks for confirming it.

 

A really inspirational application of dressed stone. Amazing what can be done with this material once you come to terms with the ends and the infill/alignment issues.

[Physicsman]

Yes, that's right. Just checked - page 11 has a diagram of the front fascia.

 

Arch width was actually 136mm. Allowing for 7mm tapering (each side) on the front meant the "gap" at ground level was 122mm. The 7mm was an artistic choice - you could do more or less.

 

The "gap" would still be 122mm at the rear, and I kept the amount of taper the same to keep the inner pier walls at the same angle. but the outer pier width is clearly bigger.

 

I'm glad you asked about this. It's only 5 weeks since I thought this through, and I'd forgotten!

 

Jeff

[Paul Cram]

Jeff I think the areas you see as not perfect will not be noticed by anyone when finished and in situ as it is the overall look that is important. I have come across this with tiling. Because I am doing it I notice where the small errors are but no one else can see them even when pointed out some times.

 

It is looking very impressive.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Paul Cram

[gordon s]

Thanks Jeff. Apologies, I hadn't gone back far enough in the thread. All is now clear.

[Physicsman]

Thanks Paul. I hope you are right. I think it plays on the mind as it's currently the focus of my attention. I've spent ages fiddling with the rear fascias, and once in place you won't even be able to see them!

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Thanks Jeff. Apologies, I hadn't gone back far enough in the thread. All is now clear.

 

Please don't apologise, Gordon. It was fun having to think it through again! I reached a point where I wasn't quite sure how I'd done it myself, so had to wrack my brains!!

 

Don't worry - I'll peruse Eastwood Town and I'll be asking you for advice when I need it!

 

Jeff

[peach james]

Morning James.

 

I had a look for the book on Amazon. 2 used copies available. One, from a seller in the US, is for sale at £87! I don't think I'll be buying a copy, somehow!

 

Jeff

 

I got my copy off here, for, I think, 20 quid. Be patient, they do show up for reasonable prices- remember that Amazon isn't always the best way to get a copy. (but sometimes it is...)

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/0860933601/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used

 

(25 quid, in the UK...)

 

James