Kirkby Luneside (Original): End of the line....

[Andrew P]

The stones are 8mm wide, so 2' to scale. Various lengths and 4 thicknesses. Stacked and glued on top of each other you'll get a view of the arrangement from both sides as there is nothing in the way of the rock pieces to impede the view. Sorry if that sounds confusing!!

 

Jeff

IM NOT FIK U NO I DO UNDERSTANDI ENGISH :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: hahahaaaaaaeeee

[southern42]

Looking forward to seeing the first wall, Jeff.

 

Have you considered batch painting / colouring the 'stones' first?

3 or 4 shades of relevant colours brushed over different piles of stones.  When dry mix them up.  This should give a natural random effect.  Add touches extra colours / shading / weathering afterwards as needed.

 

Hope this makes sense - wouldn't like to get the indecipherable button

 

Good luck with it all.  Quite a task but I'm sure it'll look grand when it's all settled into the gr***.

 

Pollymix

[Physicsman]

Thanks for the painting idea, Polly. However, the stones are going to be very fiddly on an individual basis, so it'll be much easier to paint the walling en masse.

 

I really need to sort out all the rock faces in the cuttings - or lack of.... I started work on them 3 weeks ago and got side-tracked by other jobs!

 

Jeff

Edited May 14, 2013 by Physicsman

[Physicsman]

IM NOT FIK U NO I DO UNDERSTANDI ENGISH :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: hahahaaaaaaeeee

 

Now, now, Andy.

 

In the modern world you really must try to include a wider variety of verbs, adjectives and adverbs in your written submissions....

 

Signed: Luney Lunester pp. my hero Michael Gove (NOT)

[Andrew P]

Looking forward to seeing the first wall, Jeff.

 

Have you considered batch painting / colouring the 'stones' first?

3 or 4 shades of relevant colours brushed over different piles of stones.  When dry mix them up.  This should give a natural random effect.  Add touches extra colours / shading / weathering afterwards as needed.

 

Hope this makes sense - wouldn't like to get the indecipherable button

 

Good luck with it all.  Quite a task but I'm sure it'll look grand when it's all settled into the gr***.

 

Pollymix

Great idea Polly, I like that for any jobs in the future.

 

Question, = Why are you so clever, ?????

Bodgit

[Andrew P]

Now, now, Andy.

 

In the modern world you really must try to include a wider variety of verbs, adjectives and adverbs in your written submissions....

 

Signed: Luney Lunester pp. my hero Michael Gove (NOT)

Question, = Wots Verbs?,   I fought day wer fings dat you hit wiv da kar when uo wer out of controol afte tooo manee jucies

 

Adverbs are Verbs with advertising slogans on them like STOP, GIVE WAY AHEAD, etc

 

As for Adjectives, I never did like needles in me arm

 

Baffelled Bodgit of Bangor

[southern42]

Great idea Polly, I like that for any jobs in the future.

 

Question, = Why are you so clever, ?????

Bodgit

 

Clever? Hmmm.  I wouldn't say that.  I just like to make life easy....doesn't always work.

Though I can still remember working out how to make my first house using tabs out of a sheet of paper when I was about seven.  Should've been playing dolls... :nono: :nono:

 

I may need some brick walls on Great West Road but I don't think I'll be making the bricks. 

[robmcg]

Because you people insist on talking about stones, I thought I might move the subject along with this caption and picture below...

 

getting closer to Luneside....    at least Preston-Carlisle...   anyway here is my little speech, also in the Hornby section about large green powerful engines..  I not actually that interested in 100mph performance, but as a child I was...

 

'Dramatic' sometimes hardly begins to describe the many times when older engines, even engines known to be 'good 'uns' were thrashed by drivers or even passed firemen, partly because their train was late, or they wanted to get home early, or more likely, they might never have had the chance ever again to show off their skills.

 

We know this happened with Bulleid Pacifics on the ex-LSWR main line from Waterloo, with a Merchant Navy or two reaching a genuine 100+mph as late as 1966, less well-known perhaps would have been 'last fling' situations by crewmen back in the early sixties in the Midlands, where although in 1962-3 there many locomotives still capable of 'the ton', timetabling and other constraints meant this may have been rare.

 

Many 2nd, 3rd link and other link engines were nevertheless sometimes asked to perform quite extraordinary feats from time to time, and with a policy of running them until they break taking hold in BR, I recall a photo, possibly in the David Hey Collection

http://www.davidheyscollection.com/

showing an unrebuilt 3-cylinder Fowler Patriot under glowering evening-lit skies, undergoing what looks a little like a serious thrashing, and thought of the excellent Bachmann model, not often discussed, just like the prototype. So I created this picture of a crew from Preston having a last go at showing how well these engines could perform. 45543 was withdrawn in November 1962.

 

 

Apologies for duplication, well sort of... 

 

Rob

 

Edited May 15, 2013 by robmcg

[Physicsman]

Cheers Rob. No problem with the duplication as I hadn't read the "other" version.

 

I agree with you about the Patriot model. I've a Bachmann "Home Guard" and will need another for my fleet at some stage.

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Having made some of the DAS strips, I thought I'd have a go at a bit of walling.

 

The section I'm building is one of the aqueduct walls. I've stuck the "stones" onto 80thou plastikard, which provides a rigid base that I can easily cut.

 

Let's make a start...

 

 

Ten minutes later...

 

 

After half-an-hour something wall-like is emerging...

 

 

More shortly!

 

Jeff

 

 

[Physicsman]

Add a few coping stones and we have an approx. 5' to 5' 6" aqueduct stone wall...

 

 

 

 

This took me an hour. It's my first attempt and I speeded-up as work progressed.

 

By my reckoning it'll be about 200 hours work to make all the walls for Lune Fell!!

 

Jeff

[southern42]

Because you people insist on talking about stones, I thought I might move the subject along with this caption and picture below...

 

getting closer to Luneside....    at least Preston-Carlisle...   anyway here is my little speech, also in the Hornby section about large green powerful engines..  I not actually that interested in 100mph performance, but as a child I was...

 

'Dramatic' sometimes hardly begins to describe the many times when older engines, even engines known to be 'good 'uns' were thrashed by drivers or even passed firemen, partly because their train was late, or they wanted to get home early, or more likely, they might never have had the chance ever again to show off their skills.

 

We know this happened with Bulleid Pacifics on the ex-LSWR main line from Waterloo, with a Merchant Navy or two reaching a genuine 100+mph as late as 1966, less well-known perhaps would have been 'last fling' situations by crewmen back in the early sixties in the Midlands, where although in 1962-3 there many locomotives still capable of 'the ton', timetabling and other constraints meant this may have been rare.

 

Many 2nd, 3rd link and other link engines were nevertheless sometimes asked to perform quite extraordinary feats from time to time, and with a policy of running them until they break taking hold in BR, I recall a photo, possibly in the David Hey Collection

http://www.davidheyscollection.com/

showing an unrebuilt 3-cylinder Fowler Patriot under glowering evening-lit skies, undergoing what looks a little like a serious thrashing, and thought of the excellent Bachmann model, not often discussed, just like the prototype. So I created this picture of a crew from Preston having a last go at showing how well these engines could perform. 45543 was withdrawn in November 1962.

 

Patriot_Last_Fling_1962_3abc_r800a.jpg

 

Apologies for duplication, well sort of... 

 

Rob

 

Love the photo, Rob but sorry to disturb everyone's lunch hour...but your post has highlighted one of my many questions re the protoype.

Lately, I've been reading John Drayton's On the Footplate: Memories of a GWR engineman.

It's alright , it's not a specifically GWR question so you can all relax...though I'm sure Bodgit won't mind...

Would you kindly explain what exactly a 'link' is.  There's quite a few mentions in the book but i'm not sure I'm fully in the picture here - guess work, mainly, as with a lot of things he mentions.

 

New Girl!

 

Jeff.  You've just posted your wall pics   ahead of me.

Have you thought about adding some grey/S&C-ish colouring to the PVA to give colour to the inside of the wall?  Might save you trying to get it in after?

Just an idea.

Looking good, anyway.

 

Luchtime Lune  

[Physicsman]

Jeff.  You've just posted your wall pics   ahead of me.

Have you thought about adding some grey/S&C-ish colouring to the PVA to give colour to the inside of the wall?  Might save you trying to get it in after?

Just an idea.

Looking good, anyway.

 

Luchtime Lune  

 

Hadn't thought of that. Excellent idea, Polly!

 

I'll do just that when I build some more walling (later this evening after I've been out for a curry!).

 

Jeff

[southern42]

I'll pop back to see the results, Jeff.

 

Back to the grind, now.

 

Polly

[Rowsley17D]

Just to borrow your thread Jeff, to answer Polly's question regarding a "link". A "link" or "turn" is the type of job or work undertaken by engines of a certain class or power classification. A top link engine, eg a pacific, would undertake heavy express jobs, a second link engine like the Patriots would undertake the lighter passenger work on the mainline or secondary mainline. Quite often in steam days there might be a shortage of top link locos and so sheds would send out anything in steam to perform the duties. Drivers expecting to take out a top link loco varied in their approach if given a second link engine. Some just gave-in and lost time throughout the journey, others saw it as a challenge and would push their underpowered charges to the limits and arrive on time or early, usually with an exhausted fireman on board.

 

Those walls are looking good Jeff, don't envy you painting them with a brush though, time to invest in an air brush?

[Jason T]

That looks great Jeff. With the first stones down I have to admit I was thinking it looked a bit pony but as I moved down the post and saw the construction and end result, I'm impressed.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Sandside

[johnfp]

I feel a bit like a school boy questioning Shakespeare but I will ask anyway.

 

Would you be better off sticking the stones to a flexible bottom layer so that when you come to apply the wall to the scenery you can mould the wall into the contours?

 

"Lurking upstart can't be a Lune after 1 post"  Lune

 

John

Edited May 15, 2013 by johnfp

[Physicsman]

I feel a bit like a school boy questioning Shakespeare but I will ask anyway.

 

Would you be better off sticking the stones to a flexible bottom layer so that when you come to apply the wall to the scenery you can mould the wall into the contours?

 

"Lurking upstart can't be a Lune after 1 post"  Lune

 

John

 

That's actually a very sensible suggestion, John.

 

The section you are looking at is part of the aqueduct that sits on top of the main line bridge road-deck. So the "bottom" is flat, and so the plastikard is ok. I'll do the same when I get to the branch bridge section. You are spot-on re. contours etc. The aqueduct sections that sit onto the adjoining hillside will have to be built in situ, directly onto the hill plaster.

 

Now until today I'd never tried this technique, so I thought I'd do the "easy bit" first!

 

Btw, if you look back to post #6369 you'll see the inside of the aqueduct has a "cobbled" bottom. I'm NOT trying to make a copy of that photo - otherwise the walls would have to be another 3-4 feet higher, including a brick/stone base. But I am going to smear DAS clay along the bottom and roughly scribe out a pattern, creating a rough cobbled effect. Not a critical detail, as application of "grot" and a thin layer of "water" will cover much of it.

 

Hope my woffle clarifies things, John. and please join in as often as you please. The more the merrier!

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

That looks great Jeff. With the first stones down I have to admit I was thinking it looked a bit pony but as I moved down the post and saw the construction and end result, I'm impressed.

 

Cheers Jason. I'm pleased with the result and a bit relieved that it actually looks half decent!

 

Jeff

[emt_911]

Jeff

 

Jason beat me to it. It certainly appears to be an effective method even if it does become a bit tedious.

 

Duncan

[Chipster]

Cheers Jason. I'm pleased with the result and a bit relieved that it actually looks half decent!

 

Jeff

 

 

Hi Jeff

 

That is an understatement if ever I've heard one!!!

 

I saw the photo's and just like Jason when I looked at the 1st one I thought 'no good', 2nd one 'bit more like it', 3rd one 'now it's looking like a wall', 4,5 & 6 look 'fantastic', this is going to be so much better than anything you could have bought off a shelf.

 

Which all goes to prove an old saying that "Women (SORRY Polly!!) and children should never see a job half done", as I'm fast approaching my half century I'm not sure which category I put myself in!!

 

Excellent, looking forward to seeing these in situ and painted.

 

Chip.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Chipster

[The Stationmaster]

Just to borrow your thread Jeff, to answer Polly's question regarding a "link". A "link" or "turn" is the type of job or work undertaken by engines of a certain class or power classification. A top link engine, eg a pacific, would undertake heavy express jobs, a second link engine like the Patriots would undertake the lighter passenger work on the mainline or secondary mainline. Quite often in steam days there might be a shortage of top link locos and so sheds would send out anything in steam to perform the duties. Drivers expecting to take out a top link loco varied in their approach if given a second link engine. Some just gave-in and lost time throughout the journey, others saw it as a challenge and would push their underpowered charges to the limits and arrive on time or early, usually with an exhausted fireman on board.

 

Alas not exactly so Jonathan.  A link in railway parlance is a way in which a group of men are arranged to work a succession of duties - at some depots it might only be a dozen men while at others it could be 30 - 40 while on the Southern Region in later days even quite big depots only had single links - as much as 120 weeks long.

 

There is a mathematically ideal size for links at a depot which depends on the type of work and route and (in modern times) traction knowledge as well as other factors which might be social (e.g. including lodging turns) or very often related to earnings and also experience, especially the latter.  A traditional steam working link structure would start with shunting at the bottom then local freight or passenger, then middle distance work and finally the best paying long distance work at the top, A Fireman progressing to Driver would go right back to the bottom of that succession to start working his way up again.

 

Engine working is slightly different as most steam engines didn't work on a link basis although in some cases that was effectively what happened, especially where Drivers had 'their own' or regular engines.  But basically a depot would be allocated sufficient locos, plus spares, to cover its diagrammed and average special working commitment for each type of work it had to cover and locos would be rostered to diagrams according to their suitability and availability - but they didn't necessarily work round in lo/ink fashion and it was not unknown for the same engine to finish up repeatedly on the same job although it would be worked by different crews as they went through their link rotation.

 

However linking of engine diagrams (a diagram is a pattern of work for a day usually for locos, and for a turn of duty for crews) did come in to some extent with dieselisation and electrification where locos were put onto cyclic diagrams which they rotated through over - usually - 5 or 6 days, which in turn meant you needed 5 or 6 locos to cover the cycle so it worked like a link system.

 

But because the more important depots tended to have or be known for their 'Top Link' work so various engines came to be associated with work covered by that link and thus got to be called Top Link' as well.  But it is a bit of a misnomer because a top link - even at a depot with mainline passenger work - could find itself working on a regular booked basis across a range of engines including some mixed traffic types and just as readily working important fast freight trains as important fast passenger trains.  (And to think that once upon a time I used to be paid for occasionally teaching this sort of stuff on courses.)

 

Back to stone walls and sorry for the interruption 

[ChrisN]

Jeff,

The walls look really good, much better than I anticipated as most dry walls are not built of rectangular stones.  I do think you will need to get some colour into the middle or it will be a pig to paint.  Could you dip them, roll them in a dark grey emulsion/acryllic and leave them to dry?

 

Will they become brittle with time so that they break up a bit and so will be less uniform?  I notice that there appears to be a broken one in one of your images- looks good.

 

If my layout ever happens, I will need welsh stone walls so I watch with interest.

 

I still think this should be an 'in between' jobs 200 hours straight will drive you barmy, off RMWeb and into doing knitting, or something similar. 

[Andrew P]

Hi Jeff, just looked in and after a quick Phone Call to Hadrian upstairs, and he said he was proud of your wall as he had many more workers to build his,   hhahahaaaahheeee

 

Bodgit the block builder, :sungum:

Edited May 15, 2013 by Andrew P

[southern42]

Thanks for that brilliant info on 'links', Mike.

I say I've been reading Drayton's book.  In fact, it's more of a 'delve into' since I've been asked to read at a library event to upper junior aged children next month.  The plan is to have some A4 pics with cue words on the back that they show each other in turn to accompany the sections I read  (amended to suit).  Inspiration came from Radio 4's Book of the Week before the Shipping Forecast - well a few of them and also memories of Jackanory though I'm no celebrity!

 

Apologies for the disruption, Jeff, though I guess it's still relevant to operational activity...

Oooo.  We can watch out for your links...erm...do some crew spotting!!!  :locomotive: :locomotive:

 

Polly

 

 

.