Guest jim s-w Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Actually, from speaking to some very accomplished large loco builders they tell me its trickier to build big locos in EM. Wider tyres and all that. However you did say 'a main line steam layout' not stock. End of the day plenty of people have built large steam locos in P4 while you can count on on hand (with fingers left over) the amount of people that have ever built scale overhead in 4mm Whatever you choose to model it will have challenges. The trick is making it so the veiwer is unaware of them and believe your brand of make believe Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 P4 has always been about track and wheel standards, so I'm a little confused about the relevance of outside valve gear and scale overhead. Wow you appear to have massively missed the point. P4 has always been about trying to do everything as near to scale as possible. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I remember Adavoyle with a great deal of affection as I think it is a cracking good layout (with excellent running every time I saw it). I chose my words very carefully because I haven't seen it recently and I wasn't sure if it was still on the exhibition circuit..... It is in the possession of the South Dublin Model Railway Club, so we're unlikely to see it travel on the circuit anymore, certainly not on this side of the Irish Sea. As it ages, it will take a lot of looking after, so here's hoping the lads at South Dublin are up to the task. .....But beyond Adavoyle, what else have we had recently? Even going back a few years..... Mostyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 There used to be a slogan that went "it's about wheels and track" in the early days when P4 was setting out its stall. But as Jim says it has always been about overall accuracy and authenticity and there was a later slogan directed at the holistic approach that went "it's not just about wheels and track". The latter can be applicable to any 4mm standard of course, and any scale for that matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 If I recall, the first advert with the "it's not just about wheels and track" slogan featured a silver birch tree and a bicycle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted October 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 7, 2012 I do have a particular problem with a 2mm exhibit at a Sale 4 show and the exclusion of other 4mm layouts in other gauges. . An oddly blinkered view. We were invited to take Highbury to the S4 AGM last year and had a great time. Next year we are taking the colliery to expo EM. We see it as missionary work Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 ...We see it as missionary work Jerry Do proselytisers often adopt the missionary position, then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 It seems that Railway Modelling (note caps) IS becoming the new religion! Does this mean that Andy Y will have to feed us all at next years gathering, with just 2 pies, a jaffa cake, and half a bottle of Vimto? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Wow you appear to have massively missed the point. P4 has always been about trying to do everything as near to scale as possible. Cheers Jim But, and it's a big but, those who model in OO and EM try to 'to do everything as near to scale as possible' also. The difference is very much the track and wheel standards which is where P4 'came in' all those years ago. I do think that those S4 members who insist that only they have the right to claim that they have the holy grail are missing the point, not I. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 It seems that Railway Modelling (note caps) IS becoming the new religion! Does this mean that Andy Y will have to feed us all at next years gathering, with just 2 pies, a jaffa cake, and half a bottle of Vimto? Beware false gods. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 An oddly blinkered view. We were invited to take Highbury to the S4 AGM last year and had a great time. Next year we are taking the colliery to expo EM. We see it as missionary work Jerry Another quote taken out of context, only partially read and dragged up from way back at the start of this topic. The issue was not that a layout of a different scale/gauge had been invited to a show that is seen to be all about 4mm modelling, it was that an OO or even EM layout were not invited. The argument that 4mm covers many gauges. Where was the 4mm narrow gauge exhibit, is it not possible to include that as "fine scale"? Hey, I don't really care anymore - now some photos of the show have been posted. The scale/gauge argument will no doubt live on in plenty of topics to come. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted October 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2012 Do proselytisers often adopt the missionary position, then? Other positions are available...... Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted October 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2012 Another quote taken out of context, only partially read and dragged up from way back at the start of this topic. I'm not sure what other context, " I do have a particular problem with a 2mm exhibit at a Sale 4 show" can be taken in but there you go. I like good modelling of all flavours irrespective of scale, gauge, period or company/national allegience. Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted October 8, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 8, 2012 It is in the possession of the South Dublin Model Railway Club, so we're unlikely to see it travel on the circuit anymore, certainly not on this side of the Irish Sea. As it ages, it will take a lot of looking after, so here's hoping the lads at South Dublin are up to the task. Mostyn. Can I join the, er, what was it called, that group of people with er, um, problems with, whatsit, memory loss? Saw that at EXPO last year (or was it two years ago) as well, so no excuse. A cracking good layout it is too, although rather like New Street, it doesn't represent a location or period which specifically matches my personal tastes, which is maybe why it didn't come to mind. It is another in the diesel/electric vs. steam element comes into play and to me, the real show stopper will be the large layout with steam locos with outside cylinders and valve gear, with long trains (including shunting). That combination must surely kill off any remaining doubts about the use of P4 on such layouts and Shrewsbury looks as though it will fit the bill. The comment about wider wheels in EM is a valid one. I haven't measured but I bet the outside faces of EM and P4 wheels are not very different a dimension. I have done outside cylinder locos in both EM and P4 and didn't notice much of a difference in clearance. I found the EM ones slightly easier because I usually put the wheels in fixed bearings, which reduced allowed me to washer the wheel until there was almost no play in any direction. On the P4 loco, the leading wheel was able to move about due to the compensation, so I had to be that bit more careful with clearances. By the way, can I just say a big thank you to everybody on the thread, for bringing it back down to a sensible and good natured discussion. It shows we can play nicely! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I'm not sure what other context, " I do have a particular problem with a 2mm exhibit at a Sale 4 show" can be taken in but there you go. I like good modelling of all flavours irrespective of scale, gauge, period or company/national allegience. Jerry I'm afraid it is that same selective quoting of part of a sentence. I too like good modelling in all flavours (I model in every thing from N through to 7mm and even narrow gauge. I am afraid I do not exclude OO or EM or P4 from that list) It was NEVER a criticism of that particular 2mm layout or any 2mm layout it was in the inclusion of 2mm and NOT any other scale or gauge. In particular say 7mm or narrow gauge. Anyway having sworn not to be baited back into this argument again - and having failed miserably by you dragging the subject back from way back on page 1 - I'm leaving this topic to continue to fester without me. Bumping this topic simply to get photos has now served its purpose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I've always felt the inclusion of something non-P4/4mm at Scaleforum was to highlight others who are also trying to achieve the best they can. By seeing how people work in other scales can often lead to a good exchange of techniques as different scales often develop their own ideas; for example in two mil' split frames are the norm for handbuilt locos yet in other scales still seem to be the exception so visitors to Scaleforum could see how another scale does it, which seems a great idea to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Anything which promotes understanding or the sharing of good ideas just has to be good, irrespective of scale/gauge/prototype etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted October 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2012 I'm afraid it is that same selective quoting of part of a sentence. I too like good modelling in all flavours (I model in every thing from N through to 7mm and even narrow gauge. I am afraid I do not exclude OO or EM or P4 from that list) It was NEVER a criticism of that particular 2mm layout or any 2mm layout it was in the inclusion of 2mm and NOT any other scale or gauge. In particular say 7mm or narrow gauge. But its a 4mm show that invites ONE guest society/association each year. This year it was 2mm, last year it was, I believe Scale7, next year I presume it will be something else. I think its a good format that works very well although some will always find something to moan about. Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted October 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2012 I'm afraid it is that same selective quoting of part of a sentence. I too like good modelling in all flavours (I model in every thing from N through to 7mm and even narrow gauge. I am afraid I do not exclude OO or EM or P4 from that list) It was NEVER a criticism of that particular 2mm layout or any 2mm layout it was in the inclusion of 2mm and NOT any other scale or gauge. In particular say 7mm or narrow gauge. Anyway having sworn not to be baited back into this argument again - and having failed miserably by you dragging the subject back from way back on page 1 - I'm leaving this topic to continue to fester without me. Bumping this topic simply to get photos has now served its purpose. Oh for goodness sake, please let it be. I for one am not interested in all this droning on. What I want from RMweb is positive stuff, like seeing other people's modelling, discussions on prototype matters, etc,. The aggressive tones used are really so unneccessary. Perhaps the 'festering' is the 'rotting corpse' that I referred to in my earlier post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I like tinplate too, I'll suggest it to the organising committee.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted October 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2012 Is it the Hornby Tinplate Collectors turn next year? I like tinplate stuff afore i get summat like an Irate Poster in me throat!! We've already put in a bid for Brio see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/52042-tucking-mill/page__st__50#entry787599 Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted October 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2012 My vote for the guest layout: http://www.warley-mrc.org.uk/layout%20far%20twittering.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted October 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2012 I like tinplate too, I'll suggest it to the organising committee.... According to a certain well-known P87 modeller of 'foreign muck', anything that isn't 'P' is referred to as 'tinplate'.....! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I'm leaving this topic to continue to fester without me. Finally! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metropolitan Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Finally! Chris No.Kenton has a valid case re elitism which needs to be answered. It is the bane of the hobby which I have no doubt contributes to the decline which we are all witnessing no matter what the scale. I believe he is wrong if my experience of the Scalefour Society is anything to go by as it it in no way elitist. I think he needs answers and proof, not condemnation. Met Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.