10800 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 (Cavalry to the rescue for Paul!). I took a few (mostly detail) photos of Shrewsbury, I would have posted before but I've been away all week since the event and only just downloaded the few pics I took. A couple of details on New Mere The Captain dons the moveable backscene from Quai 87 Detail of the tramway overhead on Quai 87 (research for Balcombe you understand) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Well, I can see why people were getting excited about that bridge on Shrewsbury. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mod6 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Discussion related to the new venue for 2013 has been transferred to a separate topic http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/62513-scaleforum-new-venue-for-2013/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clecklewyke Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 (Cavalry to the rescue for Paul!). I took a few (mostly detail) photos of Shrewsbury, I would have posted before but I've been away all week since the event and only just downloaded the few pics I took. Thank you, thank you, thank you! As someone once said, it's not just about the gauge! Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted October 6, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 6, 2012 That layout has the "wow" factor! Shrewsbury might be work in progress but it is already highly impressive. There are a number of doubters who have put forward the notion that large main line layouts in P4 are not really practical. There are certainly no big P4 layouts that I have seen at an exhibition recently. The larger P4 layouts do seem, in the main, to be permanent home fixtures, with all the advantages that gives for avoiding problems at moveable baseboard joints. Changes in temperature/humidity etc, which can upset baseboards and track in any gauge but are more likely to cause trouble in the finer standards. A layout like Shrewsbury is exactly what the P4 modelling fraternity needs as a valid response to such doubters. I really hope that I get to see it in the flesh before too long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clecklewyke Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I don't think I have any references to Shrewsbury station's history. Clearly the S & T was done by the LNWR. I wonder who was responsible for the station buildings and roofs? GWR, LNWR or a predecessor company? Ian (thinking that it might be appropriate for LNWR's Bradford station!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 .....There are certainly no big P4 layouts that I have seen at an exhibition recently. The larger P4 layouts do seem, in the main, to be permanent home fixtures.... What happened to Mostyn? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I don't think I have any references to Shrewsbury station's history. Clearly the S & T was done by the LNWR. I wonder who was responsible for the station buildings and roofs? GWR, LNWR or a predecessor company? Ian (thinking that it might be appropriate for LNWR's Bradford station!) Shrewsbury was a proper joint venture between the LNWR and GWR who between them had brought up all the small companies that had built the lines radiating out from Shrewsbury with a joint comittee governing the running of the station. The station building dates from the 1840s and was given an extra floor at some stage by going downwards rather than up. Most of the trackwork around the station appears to be GWR. The companies seemed to devide it up like that. There's a good brief history in 'The North and West Route Volume 1' by John Hodge along with lots of lovely pictures of the area around Shrewsbury if you ever get chance to look at a copy. Edit: In addition to the above. By 1870 the GWR and LNWR were the only two companies with interests at Shrewsbury. The roof as depicted in the model was reconstructed from the original 1840s structure in the 1880s when the station building was given it's extra storey and the site was extensively remodelled. The architect responsible for the original station building was a Mr Thomas Penson of Oswestry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Harrap Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 (Cavalry to the rescue for Paul!). I took a few (mostly detail) photos of Shrewsbury, I would have posted before but I've been away all week since the event and only just downloaded the few pics I took. A couple of details on New Mere The Captain dons the moveable backscene from Quai 87 Detail of the tramway overhead on Quai 87 (research for Balcombe you understand) The tramway line support masts on QUAI:87 are scratchbuilt from various bit of brass tubing, rod and wire. The twirly bits are p/bronze pickup strip twiddled around a stick. Insulators are from the local farty crafty shop. Not all the masts actually have the o/h line attatched to them, it (piano wire) being stretched taunt between the end posts. The whole lot, en masse, has to be lifted off the layout for transport and carefully draped across the dashboard for the drive home, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 7, 2012 The tramway line support masts on QUAI:87 are scratchbuilt from various bit of brass tubing, rod and wire. The twirly bits are p/bronze pickup strip twiddled around a stick. Insulators are from the local farty crafty shop. Not all the masts actually have the o/h line attatched to them, it (piano wire) being stretched taunt between the end posts. The whole lot, en masse, has to be lifted off the layout for transport and carefully draped across the dashboard for the drive home, Brian. This sort of post really makes me realise that the great modellers do breathe the same air as I do - but that they see ways of doing things and get on and do them. The "carefully draped across the dashboard" bit is just brilliant. No sign of elitism here, chaps! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clecklewyke Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 What happened to Mostyn? And Burntisland? And Dewsbury (GN), Birmingham New St etc., etc. (Edited because of pathetic recall. Couldn't remember the word "Alzheimers's" last week!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Calcutta sidings 2 should start touring soon, is 16'x52' big enough? Then theres new street and tring later at 20' longer Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted October 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 7, 2012 There are a number of doubters who have put forward the notion that large main line layouts in P4 are not really practical. There are certainly no big P4 layouts that I have seen at an exhibition recently. The larger P4 layouts do seem, in the main, to be permanent home fixtures, with all the advantages that gives for avoiding problems at moveable baseboard joints. Changes in temperature/humidity etc, which can upset baseboards and track in any gauge but are more likely to cause trouble in the finer standards. Adavoyle Junction (21ft x 12ft) was on the exhibition circuit for 20 years. But mostly in the north, so maybe that doesn't count. We had no problems with board joints or effects of temperature or humidity. Here it is at the Ulster Transport Museum in 2004: and on home territory: More: http://www.templot.c...RI/adavoyle.htm regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I especially wanted to get this shot because it reminded of walks to and from the town centre from the Castlefields area of Shrewsbury when I lived in the town, and the river path was a popular route. There were (possibly apocryphal) stories of some going out on a Friday night when the river was rising after heavy rain in North Wales, returning by the same route after many pints, and only realising next morning when they found their shoes and trouser bottoms muddy and soaking wet that the river had risen over the (mostly unfenced) path during the evening! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Adavoyle Junction (21ft x 12ft) was on the exhibition circuit for 20 years. But mostly in the north, so maybe that doesn't count. I suspect that kind of illustrates the point Martin. Adavoyle was large for a P4 layout but compared to other 4mm scale roundy roundy layouts it would be considered quite small. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted October 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 7, 2012 I suspect that kind of illustrates the point Martin. Adavoyle was large for a P4 layout but compared to other 4mm scale roundy roundy layouts it would be considered quite small. I'm not sure anyone would call 21ft x 12ft "quite small". But it was a main-line P4 layout (the other aspect of the original quote) -- a junction station with two branches, 6 platform faces, goods yard, MPD, a separate branch line station, and a complete narrow-gauge section with mixed-gauge tracks at the junction. It was also a multi-level layout with gradients and canted track on the curves. So it was more complex than many much larger layouts. Whatever the size, I think it proved the point about larger P4 layouts. I say "was", but of course it's still working fine, now in the care of the South Dublin Model Railway Club: http://sdmrc.hobbysi...hp?article_id=4 Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Belgian Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 (Edited because of pathetic recall. Couldn't remember the word "Alzheimers's" last week!) Take heart - at least you remember forgetting! JE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted October 7, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 7, 2012 Adavoyle Junction (21ft x 12ft) was on the exhibition circuit for 20 years. But mostly in the north, so maybe that doesn't count. We had no problems with board joints or effects of temperature or humidity. Here it is at the Ulster Transport Museum in 2004: and on home territory: More: http://www.templot.c...RI/adavoyle.htm regards, Martin. I remember Adavoyle with a great deal of affection as I think it is a cracking good layout (with excellent running every time I saw it). I chose my words very carefully because I haven't seen it recently and I wasn't sure if it was still on the exhibition circuit. I think that Shrewsbury could easily be the layout that takes up the "large P4 layout" baton. Of course there is Birmingham New Street, which will also be a huge hit on the circuit when it is finished. From a purely personal point of view, I knew the station a little bit in the 70s and 80s and I thought it was a thoroughly unpleasant place and I could never catch the next train out quickly enough, so I find it hard to get excited about a model of it. I have seen it at a show and thought that the modelling was excellent but it is just not something that floats my boat. I also think that even the most ardent diesel and electric enthusiast will agree that P4 is relatively easier for them, compared to steam, particularly with outside cylinders and valve gear. So a main line steam layout is probably a bigger mountain to climb than a main line diesel/electric one. But beyond Adavoyle, what else have we had recently? Even going back a few years. I saw "Whetstone", which was even bigger. I recall that was scrapped after a couple of outings because Andy Gibbs struggled to make it work reliably and that he not only gave up P4 but also railway modelling as a result. Other than that, I cannot recall seeing a large P4 layout for quite a few years. Which is why I welcome the idea of a large P4 exhibition layout like Shrewsbury on the circuit. With modelling of that quality, it looks as if it will be a real "show stopper". I am sure it will do more to promote P4 modelling and inspire others to have a go more than any number of smaller layouts ever can. What is the saying? A good big un will always beat a good little un!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clecklewyke Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Am I right in believing that Ambergate has been converted to P4? Is it on the exhibition circuit: I'd go a long way to see it! Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R A Watson Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 From a purely practical poiint of view, although I like to see the "large" layouts as much as the next man, where can they be displayed? The majority of club and local shows do not have access to sufficient space in their, by definition, low cost and therefore relatively small space venues. Added to this is the other problems of the cost of transport and operators that these items engender. We have to remember that the organisers have to cater for a wide range of scale and prototype interests. I can easily envisage the volume of comment (I nearly said Carping there) which would apear on here if our club put on a show featuring just two large and a couple of smaller layouts because of space and cost restrictions. I realise that this may draw further off topic comments in reply and if the mods were to split it off into a seperate heading I would not object. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I also think that even the most ardent diesel and electric enthusiast will agree that P4 is relatively easier for them, compared to steam, particularly with outside cylinders and valve gear. So a main line steam layout is probably a bigger mountain to climb than a main line diesel/electric one. Outside valve gear verses scale overhead? FIGHT! Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Am I right in believing that Ambergate has been converted to P4? Yes and is being extended, see http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1430 Is it on the exhibition circuit: I don't believe so, its new home looks to be permanent. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted October 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 7, 2012 Am I right in believing that Ambergate has been converted to P4? Is it on the exhibition circuit: I'd go a long way to see it! Hi Ian, If you have Templot, Tony's .box file can be downloaded from: http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=1590&forum_id=12#p10013 Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Outside valve gear verses scale overhead? FIGHT! Cheers Jim P4 has always been about track and wheel standards, so I'm a little confused about the relevance of outside valve gear and scale overhead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted October 7, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 7, 2012 Outside valve gear verses scale overhead? FIGHT! Cheers Jim Close call that one! I will play my "Good OHE is equally tricky in all gauges" card and raise you a "Steam locos get harder the further apart the wheels are" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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