steve fay Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Question about colour schemes, is the black version the earliest one. Thanks. Yes mate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Thanks Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 I haven't seen photos of most of the wagons, from the numbers given on the Tower website DB992623 http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brcatfishzev/e144547c3 DB983503 (Tower models appear to have this number incorrect) http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brcatfishzev/e1904eea3 This was bright yellow by 1991! DB983466 ZEV CATFISH http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brcatfishzev/e19275e35 DB983021 ZFV DOGFISH http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brdogfish/e25c3b6e3 ?? I have no idea if they have used this. DB993608 ZFV DOGFISH http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brdogfish/e837d084 DB993116 ZFV DOGFISH http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brdogfish/e39f63eb3 Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gridwatcher Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Those of you wishing to 'fiddle' with your Dogs and Cats will be pleased to her that Steve at Railtec already has 3 options for TOPS era Dogfish and assures me that 7mm TOPS Catfish are 'in hand' (there is already a 4mm sheet!) http://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=1532 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Has anybody received their Dutch versions of the Catfish or Dogfish ? does anybody find the shade of the Grey section of the livery very questionable ? to my eyes it looks more of a "browny" grey and certainly not the battleship grey I was expecting. I would be interested to know other people's thoughts. Craig. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltic17 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Just wondering what the first impressions are of the new catfish/dogfish wagons? Mine don't arrive until Monday I believe - maybe others are still waiting for theirs but I had expected a few early thoughts....anyone please.....? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUTLER2579 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) Can anyone tell me when the Olive Green colour scheme was first introduced, please. Edited November 17, 2015 by CUTLER2579 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltic17 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Well my ballast trucks turned up yesterday..... First impressions - overall a pretty good effort.... I notice the couplings on these have a slightly wider gap on the hook and are therefore much easier to couple together which is great. I do like the ballast loads provided - the shape of the load is also good - I will be adding some real ballast to mine for added realism. The trucks are a nice weight which is good - even more so when I get my real ballast loads in them! Unfortunately a number of my trucks are making scraping noises as they move along (a bit like the VAA's I had from Heljan - before I sold them!) - the noise isn't too bad and seems to come (I think) from fine tolerances around the brake blocks but I'm not 100% sure on that. That shouldn't really happen on a £70+ truck but I suppose the real thing wasn't exactly quiet either. Also good news is that nothing has fallen off any of mine yet (unlike the VAA's). All I've got to work out now is how to weather them. Mine are Olive but in use they nearly always seemed to be a version of grey/brown unless just out of works. It has been said elsewhere but a Shark Ballast Plough should maybe the next truck to be announced by Heljan....???? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Can anyone tell me when the Olive Green colour scheme was first introduced, please. Finding out when such changes happened is an art not a science, as such changes were not recorded in the public media of the time (I would love to be proven incorrect on this!). To remind you all, I wrote about the change in the service stock liveries in: Bartlett, Paul W. (1992) Gulf red - a nearly forgotten BR livery. Modellers' Backtrack vol. 2 (part 4) pp 184 - 188. As you may not be able to put your hands on your copy of this magazine and although it is not possible to know with greater accuracy using official BR documents I fixed that black laquer remained in use in June 1959, and Gulf Red was introduced by March 1960. I then wrote: By January 1963 the General instructions were totally revised … and service stock was to be finished in olive drab. …. A memorandum of 21st May 1962 actually introduced the use of olive drab for service vehicles “until the new policy for 1963 has been agreed”. I mention Gulf red as this is important in the history of the Dog and Catfish. I concluded that lot 3331 of Catfish had been introduced in red. This the batch of Cats had hydraulic buffers and roller bearings (I believe these were usually SKF). For Dogfish I believe lots 3329, 3340 and 3255 were all built (at least in part) during the brief period of Gulf red being used. These were also the only lots which may all have had roller bearings and hydraulic buffers from new, again often SKF which are unlike the model. Hydraulic buffers were experimental at that time and more than one type was used on these batches. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) rDSC08580.jpgrDSC08579.jpgrDSC08582 (2).JPGrDSC08584.jpgrDSC08585.jpgrDSC08586.jpgrDSC08590.jpgrDSC08592.jpgrDSC08594.jpgrDSC08595.jpgrDSC08597.jpgrDSC08599.jpg Hi Paul, Are you pleased with them, how do they measure up to your expert eye? To my mind the various hand-wheels seem finer than on the pre-pro models (or is that an optical illusion)? Also does anyone know why, on the prototype, some have 'curly' HB wheels and others just 'spoked', adhoc replacements or as built?? - Im finding certain details confusing. ATVB with thanks, CME Edited November 19, 2015 by CME and Bottlewasher Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Star Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 I have been searching through the BR diagram books to try to locate the prototypes of the pending HJ Cargowaggons... I think that the flat is E502 and the van is E512. Anyone able to confirm or correct my thinking? thank you, Graham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 According to Tower the vans are E512, if they have used the correct prototype photo http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/german2doorvan Likewise if they have correctly numbered the bogie flats then they may be E557 but their photo shows one modified for long welded rail http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/cargowaggonflat Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Star Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 According to Tower the vans are E512, if they have used the correct prototype photo http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/german2doorvan Likewise if they have correctly numbered the bogie flats then they may be E557 but their photo shows one modified for long welded rail http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/cargowaggonflat Paul Thank you Paul, I understand your warning about the photo on the Tower website. The BR Ferry Van diagram book on the Barrowmore website does not have diagram page E557 - do you have a copy of that diagram? thank you, Graham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 According to Tower the vans are E512, if they have used the correct prototype photo http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/german2doorvan Likewise if they have correctly numbered the bogie flats then they may be E557 but their photo shows one modified for long welded rail http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/cargowaggonflat Paul Hi Paul, Did you see my previous Post? How do you like these new wagons, how do they stack up? With thanks in anticipation. ATVB CME Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Hi Paul, Did you see my previous Post? How do you like these new wagons, how do they stack up? With thanks in anticipation. ATVB CME Hassling me doesn't work. I reply when I choose to, and at other times I don't. I have made a few comments on the closed GoG forum. The photos here are for you to judge for yourself; we also need others to post photos of the other 7 variants (as I suspect those on the Tower site are not of the finished production models themselves). It is impossible to review models these days as everyone appears to have their own ideas about standards and what should be included and usually ignoring the price of the product. I wouldn't presume to judge on behalf of others as my standards are lower than those of a few vociferous RMwebbers (and at least one ex! ). I will say that I am disappointed that they chose to do the Dogfish as modified with non SKF roller bearings which limits the period they are suitable for. Paul 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) Hassling me doesn't work. I reply when I choose to, and at other times I don't. I have made a few comments on the closed GoG forum. The photos here are for you to judge for yourself; we also need others to post photos of the other 7 variants (as I suspect those on the Tower site are not of the finished production models themselves). It is impossible to review models these days as everyone appears to have their own ideas about standards and what should be included and usually ignoring the price of the product. I wouldn't presume to judge on behalf of others as my standards are lower than those of a few vociferous RMwebbers (and at least one ex! ). I will say that I am disappointed that they chose to do the Dogfish as modified with non SKF roller bearings which limits the period they are suitable for. Paul Hi Paul, Gee Paul! I had a choice whether or not to reply too! I WASNT hassling you - I merely asked, as a customer of yours, what you thought as a subject matter expert on these vehicles (products), I valued your opinion (but if you dont know about Dogfish then just say, I would understand) - and I realise that sometimes on forums and with PC's things seem to jump about and thus get missed ie Posts on mobile devices et al, so I asked again..I would have PM'd you, but it flagged up that you werent contactable that way. I am a member of the GOG but have had problems signing onto the site. I have six Dogfish already from another source and was wondering if to augment or not with Heljan or JLTRT. Thanks for acerbic Post though - although I am still no further forward in my understanding of the Dogfish. BTW which ex RMW member were you speaking of?? - love or hate one ex members' Posts, at least he gave his advice freely and with great insight! <walks away shaking head, thinking, what is a guy to do, when the experts dont want to share their knowledge, even with customers and fellow modellers>. Kindest regards, CME. Edited December 1, 2015 by CME and Bottlewasher Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Jltrt are doing a nice little casting for the end of the B tanks which was left off by Heljan. Available now through the web site Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Jltrt are doing a nice little casting for the end of the B tanks which was left off by Heljan. Available now through the web site Hi Steve, Thanks, thats very useful, I will have a look, I wonder if they will have some for Reading? ATVB CME Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Hi Paul, Gee Paul! I had a choice whether or not to reply too! I WASNT hassling you - I merely asked, as a customer of yours, what you thought as a subject matter expert on these vehicles (products), I valued your opinion (but if you dont know about Dogfish then just say, I would understand) - and I realise that sometimes on forums and with PC's things seem to jump about and thus get missed ie Posts on mobile devices et al, so I asked again..I would have PM'd you, but it flagged up that you werent contactable that way. I am a member of the GOG but have had problems signing onto the site. I have six Dogfish already from another source and was wondering if to augment or not with Heljan or JLTRT. Thanks for acerbic Post though - although I am still no further forward in my understanding of the Dogfish. BTW which ex RMW member were you speaking of?? - love or hate one ex members' Posts, at least he gave his advice freely and with great insight! <walks away shaking head, thinking, what is a guy to do, when the experts dont want to share their knowledge, even with customers and fellow modellers>. Kindest regards, CME. I'm sorry I shared the photos. I am not an expert and the photos should have spoken for themselves. I am not going to do an Adrian and get thrown off of here, or fall out too much with the manufacturers. I also have lower standards than just a few on here, I don't expect RTR models to be museum pieces. That is why I will continue to avoid reviewing models. I also don't have easy access to the model, it is on the club layout. As to catfish and dogfish, there are many photos on my site including some of them when newly built. The diagrams are easily available on the Barrowmore site. What is important to watch is the bearings and buffers. The diagram mentions only self contained buffers which is what Heljan have modelled, but late batches altered. Plain bearings were also usual, but late ones appear to have had SKF from new which are quite distinctive and unlike the model. However the Dogfish in particular having a load above 20Tons should all have been re-equipped with roller bearings but that only partially happened. As to livery each model needs to be examined, as Heljan showed well with their 4mm offering in later days there were a lot of different liveries, some quite unusual. As to other 7mm model sources I am aware of one using Oleo-pneumatic buffers which I believe were only used much later, it looks like the last batch lot 3255 of Dogfish may have had them new. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I'm sorry I shared the photos. I am not an expert and the photos should have spoken for themselves. I am not going to do an Adrian and get thrown off of here, or fall out too much with the manufacturers. I also have lower standards than just a few on here, I don't expect RTR models to be museum pieces. That is why I will continue to avoid reviewing models. I also don't have easy access to the model, it is on the club layout. As to catfish and dogfish, there are many photos on my site including some of them when newly built. The diagrams are easily available on the Barrowmore site. What is important to watch is the bearings and buffers. The diagram mentions only self contained buffers which is what Heljan have modelled, but late batches altered. Plain bearings were also usual, but late ones appear to have had SKF from new which are quite distinctive and unlike the model. However the Dogfish in particular having a load above 20Tons should all have been re-equipped with roller bearings but that only partially happened. As to livery each model needs to be examined, as Heljan showed well with their 4mm offering in later days there were a lot of different liveries, some quite unusual. As to other 7mm model sources I am aware of one using Oleo-pneumatic buffers which I believe were only used much later, it looks like the last batch lot 3255 of Dogfish may have had them new. Paul Hi Paul, Thanks I understand - I thought that they were your models, Im sorry too. When reading your comments in the Gazette et al they seem precise, insightful and to the point, hence my enquiry into your thoughts and comments. Thanks for that recommendation re sites and links its much appreciated. Like you, I seek, good layout models and I strive to do better with my own model-making. I think that by and large we play nicer here than in some other scales and gauges. Adrian Swain has a superb eye for detail that's for sure - railway modelling is a broad church, so as I always say its very much a case of each to their own and no value judgements made - beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we all have our pet likes and hates. Sometimes though there is a right and wrong of a model relative to the prototype and its helpful when those in the know point such out. As I have said numerous times, if a manufacturer gets the basics right, size, shape, basic details etc and then the box collectors, the super-detailers and rivet-counters can all fill their boots (with the cottage industry supplying super-detail kits etc.). ABS allowed some of us greater choice in terms of what is right and wrong with a model, but as I said beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Its a shame that Adrian's tacit knowledge is no longer here. In reality he's a nice bloke. Im confused by the ON buffers and when such were fitted, I have some on mine, but think that a TARDIS would have been needed on Down Ampney (mind you the Dr did help name Rocket didnt he?!), similar with the SKF Bearings et al - again more confusion for a simple soul such as me. Thanks for responding it is appreciated. The usual caveats apply in terms of relationships with suppliers et al. Kindest regards to all, CME. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Looking at the club copy of Hornby magazine they have nice photos of a pair in Dutch livery. They appear to be based on these photographs DB983466 http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brcatfishzev/e19275e35as Hornby mention the model has plain bearings. DB993116 http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brdogfish/e39f63eb3 Both were alongside each other at Longport junction in 1994. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Model Rail January 2016 has photos of two more of the new wagons. DB992623 CATFISH in olive green appears to be based on http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brcatfishzev/e144547c3a b/w photo from 1975. The model has the correct buffers and plain bearing axlebox, and despite the comment made by George Dent I cannot see an electrification warning flash on the real wagon either. DB983239 DOGFISH in olive green. Not one of my photos. It has the correct buffers for this batch. Roller bearings were not fitted when new, but no reason why by anytime after the early 1960s it wouldn't have roller bearings, and of the style modelled (unlike the rarer SKF used on some Dogfish from new). I cannot see that many of these wagons had electrification flashes in the 60s or 70s. Although the later batches had hydraulic buffers they were not the type known as Oleo-pneumatic which were often fitted as replacements later in life. Paul Bartlett 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 I've kept a dog & cat back for my self however as I'm not modelling LMR I would like to change the transfers. Newport Area Empty to Machen Quarry WR Would be better for me but any idea if that is right? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEDDYBEAR D9521 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 image.jpeg I've kept a dog & cat back for my self however as I'm not modelling LMR I would like to change the transfers. Newport Area Empty to Machen Quarry WR Would be better for me but any idea if that is right? Hi Steve On the dogfish yes but not on the catfish they were more used on the Midland and Southern Regions but not so common on the Western. You could have Tintern Hirwaun also on the dogs Cheers Gareth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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