SpoorObjecten Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Sorry David I had to reject the model due to multiple shells! Some parts are not connected and floating around, I hope you can fix it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted July 25, 2013 Author Share Posted July 25, 2013 Thanks Mitchell, will reload it later after searching out the shells! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 The TRT set 2 is proving a little problematic to print - I thought it would be as the design is so complex I am bound to have made a few errors. The annoying thing though is how Shapeways systems work - they reject a model at the first error, rather than checking the whole thing, so you get notified of one problem, you correct it, re-order, then it gets rejected for a second issue, you re-order, and so on... Nevertheless, when finally printed, it should look pretty spectacular. Here is the full wagon in graphical form. David 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Good grief!!!! Absolutely stunning work. I guess quite frustrating too when you have to correct only one error at a time each time you order. As a novice is there no way at all (using other software perhaps) of error checking the entire mesh of lines before you send the model off for printing? Keep up with the good work. Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 Thanks Lee, There probably are better bits of software (no doubt I will learn how to use them at Uni), but the main issues seem to be either unattached shells (which something like netfabb would pick up), but also walls and struts that have gone below minimum thickness. This is really just my error in measurement, but I can't think of a bit of software that would be able to check this before upload. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 David, I am having similar frustrations to you with Shapeways. It is particularly frustrating when you order 3 models, 2 get printed and one gets rejected. I'm also getting problems where they have printed a model successfully many times before, I submit a slight revision to it and it gets rejected due to wall thickness issues or multiple shells. I'm about to place my third order this month as a result of all this to-ing and fro-ing and the secondary level of checking. Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 Hi Guy, Yes, they need to allow an option where if one model is rejected, you can can cancel the whole order - I ordered the TRT and a pair of bogies, the bogies were okay, but it means when I reordered the TRT I had to pay postage again. Equally I've had issues where my test print comes out perfectly, then a customer orders one, and it rejects it. I think it's down to whoever is checking the files, and although I do give Shapeways a certain leg room as they are always very good whenever there is an issue, and understanding it is a very new manufacturing process, I do think they need to be a bit more rigorous. Especially given their whole business model is to provide a market place for designers to sell their wares - it's annoying when something you have printed once is finer then the second time it's rejected for something that wasnt picked up first time round... David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gt.Shefford Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Open loops are just one of the problems when using surface modeling program. with a solid modeler such as autoCAD inventor, Pro-E, solidworks, Catia, etc the model is solid from the beginning. When I did the 08-16 bogie sides I used Rhino (surface modeling program) the software would check the model before creating the .stl and if the geometry wasn't 'watertight' it would cancel the save. Rhino has an analysis tool which highlights all exposed edges - usually the source of open loops and from there it is usually possible to 'patch' the model. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 Good to know as Rhino is the main bit of modelling software I will be using David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Blender also has an inbuilt tool for checking that meshes are watertight. Interestingly, I find that meshes only tend to get holes in when using the Blender boolean functions! I've since learned to just let Shapeway's take care of combining meshes - that way I can keep my models as separate parts allowing for much easier maintenance of the models. As long as the meshes physically overlap then Shapeway's Netfabb routine seems combine the "shells" without issue. I only get issues where e.g. walls from two objects are co-planar and don't overlap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Boar Fell Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Hello Everyone, On the subject of overlapping meshes, Sketch Up doesn't have any function to remove meshes from inside the model or for checking that it is water tight (that I know of), removing meshes is the simpler bit now that I have found the 'Intersect tool' simply highlight the whole model and click intersect with model, then delete any face inside the model that is showing a white face as the inside should be blue only. This will leave the model as one mesh, unless there are single lines that don't form a wall present. These will confuse NetFabb.Just looking at Davids superb renders above the right hand buffer on the latest wagon shows a circle where the shank's internals are touching the buffer head, in Sketch Up, I would have to make sure I deleted any non essential wall like that before exporting. Another think that might work if it fails in Netfabb is to use the following tools in Meshlab under Filters - cleaning and repairing 1) Merge close verticies 2)Remove duplicate faces 3) Remove duplicate vertex This is also useful for finding shell in NetFabb as they will now appear as yellow outlines.Hope this is of help, Regards, Wild Boar Fell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 Thanks, very helpful ! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 There are some plugins for sketchup which help with this. I use SUSolid, which IIRC costs about £15 but is well worth it as it makes it much easier to check your models before exporting them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoorObjecten Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) Like Lyneux said, if you have intersecting parts, our* software will automatically unify it into 1 single shell. However in case there is a gap between the 2 parts, albeit just 0.001mm our* software will not fix this and will see this as 2 separate parts. (which could result in Multiple shells rejection if not intended) *our software refers to the so called Meshmedic software used during the upload of a model at Shapeways. In addition, we are looking into possibilities to combine or add models to existing orders The rejection speed should already be increased since last week, and hopefully in the near future we can provide either greenlight or a rejection on the same day as you order. Edit: open edges are being fixed automatically as well. Please do note: always make sure that the render on the website is correct, if you see for example a part of your model which is supposed to be a hole, but ended up in the render as being capped (closed) this means the hole has open edges and has accidentally been fixed by our software (closing the hole instead of connecting the open edges to keep the hole) Edited August 1, 2013 by SpoorObjecten Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 The problem with "check the render" on the website is that for a large detailed object the postage stamp sized viewer is unusable. Being able to say "all or none" for an order (at least for those items that fail before printing is tried) would be a big win. Right now I end up sometimes deciding to put a pile of bits into one single FUD object not so much to save $5 but to to ensure it fails/succeeds in one go. Do you know if your STL tools use point dictionaries to deal with floating point inaccuracies ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 The TRT set 2 has finally cleared all checks and is in the print room today. Hopefully this should arrive next week. In the meantime, I've finally sorted the bogies for the Kirow. The overhanging boom does mean this model is probably best suited for display rather than running on most layouts (it really won't like tight clearances on curves!), but lined up in the full train it really does look the part I think. David 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 I have also finalised my 2014 design plans this week. When I start my degree in October, my funds and time become short, however access to 'proper' design software will be too tempting, so I am planning on releasing a further 6 or so models next year. Released at the INGS this autumn will be: Track renewal train part 1 Track renewal train part 2 YXA sleeper wagon set YXA sleeper loads Kirow 1200 crane Kirow support wagon set 09-3X tamper Harsco rail grinder Plasser UFM 160 track recorder GSM-R mast & cabin set Currently planned for 2014 are: NSF-D ballast wagons (to go with the TRT) MRA side tipping ballast wagons Cowen Sheldon 75 ton crane Plasser EM SAT 100 track recorder Plasser RMT 900 ballast cleaner Class 390 Pendolino (my first design upgraded to a higher standard) David 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gt.Shefford Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 however access to 'proper' design software will be too tempting, David Do you know what software your course uses, also worth finding out what royalty you will have to pay the University for using their software commercially? Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 Hi Jonathan, the software will be licensed to me - Rhino will be main 3D modelling program David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gt.Shefford Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Rhino5 I would suspect, I would suggest getting Penguin and Flamingo, Bongo is of little use, but if you buy the Zoo it will come as part of the bundle. Should explain to those not familiar with McNeel products - Penguin is a noto photorealistic renderer, Flamingo is a photorealistic renderer, and Bongo is for producing animations. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoorObjecten Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Well if it's more expensive, I wouldn't go for the render add-ons. In the end you will be printing the model, so why bother spending more money on making photorealistic renders? Note: adding photorealistic renders to your shop might be confusing for people as they might get a different impression than what they will actually receive. Just my 2 cents And your model, it looks awesome! great job! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) Hi Jonathan, the software will be licensed to me - Rhino will be main 3D modelling program David The other thing to watch is the university regulations small print. Lots of them in this time of grasping commercialism like to claim they own the rights to anything you do as part of a university course or hand in as an assignment etc. It's been a big problem in the software case. Some are more obnoxious than others but Bristol is fairly typical for example I have to hand in saying In the event that an undergraduate student or a postgraduate student on a taught course generates intellectual property in the course of a University project, either solely or in collaboration (where the collaborators may be fellow students, members of University of Bristol staff, employees of a sponsoring organisation or collaborative partner or a combination thereof), he or she is asked to assign to the University any intellectual property that he or she may generate. Assignment will only take place in the event that intellectual property is generated. A student shall then give to the University all reasonable assistance to enable the University to obtain patents or other forms of legal protection for the intellectual property. So be very careful not to mix student stuff and work or you may get a nasty shock. Edited August 6, 2013 by Etched Pixels Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 Hi Alan, won't be any issues like that, the only mix between work and study will be that the skills I learn on the degree will influence my designs. Software will be mine, production will be outside of the uni too. Good news is that the TRT 2 set has been shipped, so hopefully tomorrow I can post some photos of the beast. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gt.Shefford Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Software will be mine, production will be outside of the uni too. That should be fine, assuming the software is a full version and not educational. Can't wait to see the track relaying train at its full length. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alibuchan Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I would be careful with the side tipping MRA as Dapol already do it in 00 so may have it in their plans to produce it in N. Otherwise all of the other models look like a good idea. Especially the Cowen Sheldon 75 ton crane. Would like to buy one of those when it is done! Just waiting for there to be a Kirow crane sized hole in my credit card and I will be buying the wagon and crane set! Alistair Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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