Kernow Models D6xx Update

[No Decorum]

When mate, it's in tooling as I type this. :-)

Cheers

Dave

I wish you wouldn’t post things like that, Dave. That’s another pair of underpants for the wash!

[Ian Hargrave]

I have had my model on order for 5 years now, interestingly it is still on my account, however I have never been asked for any money up front nor have I ever. I see the price next to my order is £0.00 I presume that will be filled in if and when it is released.

If you have a pre order you should be eligible for a discount on it if you pay the full amount upfront.Obviously Kernow have not been in touch with you on this so I should ring them asap.Delivery should be within the next few months.

[Keith George]

When mate, it's in tooling as I type this. :-)

Cheers

Dave

 

Very pleased to hear that.

 

But why as Kernow not mentioned it in their weekly newsletter today.?

 

Keith.

[Gwiwer]

Very pleased to hear that.

 

But why as Kernow not mentioned it in their weekly newsletter today.?

 

Keith.

 

Ask them.  They might have a perfectly good reason.  I don't download the newsletters so can't go back to be sure but I do seem to remember them making mention of this a while back.

[St Enodoc]

Ask them.  They might have a perfectly good reason.  I don't download the newsletters so can't go back to be sure but I do seem to remember them making mention of this a while back.

I would expect the next announcement/progress report to be when tooling is complete.

[Roy Langridge]

I would expect the next announcement/progress report to be when tooling is complete.

Indeed, they have already reported that tooling has been approved.

 

Roy

[reevesthecat]

I have had my model on order for 5 years now, interestingly it is still on my account, however I have never been asked for any money up front nor have I ever. I see the price next to my order is £0.00 I presume that will be filled in if and when it is released.

I only got my offer email on Friday about what they are offering those who pre-ordered. Has your email address changed in the last 5 years?

Thanks

Mark

[Ian Hargrave]

Next few months!!

Well we have EP to be done, checked, amends. Then livery samples, check and amend. I woukd guess (only a guess) but thats at least another year. The hooby is continuously suggesting unrealistic supply times. Much better to be realistic about delivery times!

So maybe you should contact Kernow giving them the benefit of your knowledge and advice ? I'm sure they'd be happy to discuss it further with you.Meantime most of us are quite happy to wait a little longer,I think.

[Ian Hargrave]

Erm, I was commenting on sombody that said "in the next few months"

No need to contact Kernow thanks. Im a Project Manger for day job. So Im quite sure I understand deadlines and all the challenges involved.

 

Indeed .That "somebody" is me. My original post is based upon information already available on this forum from both DJM and Kernow.It was posted in order to help another member with his order.

 

I assume your day job involves the process of the manufacturing and supply of model railways from the Far East. .......

[Roy Langridge]

Thats great news! So as you can confirm "the next few months" shall we say D600s delivered by 01/08/16 then?

Thanks for your insight. Im looking forward to getting them by that date with no further delays. As you are clealy able to confirm.

 

 

Somebody seems to be trolling?

 

I am sure that you are aware that there can always be *unexpected* (force majeure) delays, but Ian has provided what has been confirmed by Kernow and DJ. What more do you want?

 

Roy

Edited May 1, 2017 by Roy Langridge

[miles73128]

Somebody seems to be trolling?

 

I am sure that you are aware that there can always be *unexpected* (force majeure) delays, but Ian has provided what has been confirmed by Kernow and DJ. What more do you want?

 

Roy

Roy

 

That was the point I was trying to make. Quoting unrealistic delivery times doesn't help anybody.  I don't think they will be here in a few months time. So I will delete all my posts as I don't wish to annoy anybody. And we will see when they arrive.

[Oldddudders]

Don't know about trolling, but Roy and Ian, what would you say online bullying looks like?

It is a sad fact of new model threads that a small percentage of contributors become increasingly frustrated as timescales slip. A symptom of the 'want it now' attitude prevailing today. It would be interesting to know in some cases just what they 'need' the model for. Project Management has been mentioned, so presumably the model in question is somewhere on their critical path, and the whole layout concept founders without it. Models appear when they appear. As we know, many sell out in a brace of shakes on arrival. Res ipsa loquitur.

 

In parallel with them, and sometimes the same people, are those who get a bee in their bonnet about a particular feature, and instead of just contacting the model developer, bang on about it in thread. The chimney is too narrow, the splasher has the wrong profile, that sort of thing. Again, the models rush off the shelves. In every sense, perspective is everything.

[Ian Hargrave]

Don't know about trolling, but Roy and Ian, what would you say online bullying looks like?

.What does concern me is it seems a constant flow of gripes about delivery times and the fact that Kernow had to restart the programme from scratch due to Dapol's lack of progress has been completely ignored.In the light of that it seems we are fortunate to be getting anything at all.

 

Both the D600 the Bulleid diesel commissions have such a history and it might benefit some forum members if they read from the beginning of the thread.Kernow is a very small concern.It does what it does and punches well above its weight.It is neither Hattons nor Rails but is managed with passion and commitment.We are the beneficiaries of that

 

The posts concerned have been removed so now time to move on ,I hope.

[DavidH]

.What does concern me is it seems a constant flow of gripes about delivery times and the fact that Kernow had to restart the programme from scratch due to Dapol's lack of progress has been completely ignored.In the light of that it seems we are fortunate to be getting anything at all.

 

Both the D600 the Bulleid diesel commissions have such a history and it might benefit some forum members if they read from the beginning of the thread.Kernow is a very small concern.It does what it does and punches well above its weight.It is neither Hattons nor Rails but is managed with passion and commitment.We are the beneficiaries of that

 

The posts concerned have been removed so now time to move on ,I hope.

 

Time to move on, of course. But it's strange that my post questioning what looks like online bullying is removed (presumably to avoid provoking people), yet certain other members appear to have carte blanche to pick on posters like miles above; and he backs down and their posts remain. His initial post saying he reckoned a few months was unrealistic was not in any way rude to Ian, yet Ian chooses to interpret it as such.

 

I call on Ian to also remove his posts, in the interests of all-round fairness.

[SGP]

I think the gripe lies with Dapol. If they don't want the work they shouldn't take it on. 

At least tell someone it won't be produced anytime soon rather than keeping quiet whilst rolling out O gauge to a smaller select market.

A friend had been looking forward to this D6xx model but unfortunately died earlier this year. 

[jjb1970]

I'd be careful with comments about Dapol. We don't know what happened at Dapol and I don't think that they didn't want the work, it is probably more a case that they couldn't deliver. We know they lost a key member of staff and that it took them a long time to recover from that loss, I think that as with politics it is easy to misinterpret ineptitude or inadequacy as malevolence.

I noticed force majeure mentioned earlier, I'd also be careful about confusing poor planning and management or an underestimation of difficulties with force majeure. Force majeure refers to extraordinary circumstances beyond the control of a contract party, I don't see much evidence that force majeure is a factor in model train delays. Arguments like the producers didn't know what they were taking on, have inadequate resources to meet their commitments, lose staff at Chinese new year etc may explain delays but they're not force majeure.

On the model, it'll arrive when it arrives and I'm sure it'll be worth the wait.

[Andy Y]

Not specifically directed at this instance but one thing to bear in mind is cash-flow for any business. If one project is held up for developmental reasons it will inevitably delay the dates when the consumers' spend hits the bank and a portion of that money is then used for the interim payments for design/tooling/samples. Unless a business finds a way to juggle the financial balls or borrow more then delays will happen. It's their money, not ours.

[SGP]

 

 

I'd be careful with comments about Dapol.

Why? If you ring a plumber, he'll either come straight round or give you a date when he can come round. If he doesn't turn up and keeps making excuses, you get a different plumber.

[jjb1970]

Why? If you ring a plumber, he'll either come straight round or give you a date when he can come round. If he doesn't turn up and keeps making excuses, you get a different plumber.

 

I don't disagree with that/, what I do disagree with is:

 

If they don't want the work they shouldn't take it on

 

which infers that Dapol agreed to do work with no intention of fulfilling their commitments. Unless there is evidence to support such a comment then it is not a fair thing to say. The Dapol O gauge 08also suffered long delays and it it seems to me as an outsider looking in that Dapol have had some pretty serious internal problems over the last few years. That doesn't excuse their performance but it indicates that their shortcomings have been more in the category of poor management, inadequate resources than anything sinister or underhand.

 

This isn't just a Dapol issue, what does the Bachmann list of delayed items look like these days? Hornby went through a period where their product was taking forever to arrive. DJM are suffering delays, Rapido have suffered long delays on some products as have Heljan. Now the fact that the rest of the industry struggles to deliver products on time doesn't make it right but it does indicate that while Dapol have had more severe problems than most it is more a question of magnitude than of being uniquely afflicted with poor delivery.

[SGP]

I still stand by what I said. Dapol took on too much and then sat on the problem. They had to be nudged rather than own up to a problem.

Besides, being made in China with an alleged thousands of cheap hand labour ... where is the delay? Not as if Dapol are running a tight ship in UK and half the staff goes off with flu, is it?

[Gwiwer]

None of use here knows the full story, with the possible exception of a couple of members who have privacy, respect and commercial confidence to consider before making any statement.  The material for public consumption is all contained within this topic as regards the 600s.

 

As I understand it a perfectly reasonable business arrangement was entered into whereby Kernow MRC commissioned Dapol to produce the 600s.  That was in line with Kernow's other commissions many of which have featured items with strong Cornish connections.  The project was announced and all went rather quiet for a long time despite occasional glimmers of hope.

 

Kernow MRC, which is as Ian Hargrave notes a small business which happens to commission models and definitely not one of the big players in terms of turnover, seemed to grow impatient and sensed nothing was happening with the 600s and other items commissioned from Dapol.  It would, after all, be their money at risk not ours and potentially placing the family business (for such it effectively is) in jeopardy.  

 

Months turned into years and the project was recommissioned elsewhere but I suspect not without some sniping back from Dapol and perhaps a reluctance to release research (not) being used to develop the models.  

 

The 600s have moved forwards with DJModels and are now in tooling.  OK it has taken years longer than any of us hoped to get this far.  Some of those years were lost by Dapol sitting on the project ant not doing anything significant.  That is clearly laid at their doorstep.  Working from drawings and photos when no survivor is extant for scanning will always mean a project takes longer.  Light is visible at the end of a long, long tunnel.  Quite when we have these locos no-one yet knows for sure but this year is still a reasonable bet.  

 

And how a business the size of Dapol can afford to do next to nothing for years with several valuable commissions is for them and them alone to explain.  i understand some people's patience runs out before mine.  Only today I have broken up the layout the locos were bought for.  But the orders stand as I can still enjoy and make use of them when they do finally arrive.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Gwiwer

[amwells]

The 600s have moved again, this time from DJM to Bachmann??

[Gwiwer]

The 600s have moved again, this time from DJM to Bachmann??

 

My bad.  Corrected.  It's been a very long week packing and painting.  Moving to another country can cause a slip of the electronic tongue.

[jjb1970]

I still stand by what I said. Dapol took on too much and then sat on the problem. They had to be nudged rather than own up to a problem.

Besides, being made in China with an alleged thousands of cheap hand labour ... where is the delay? Not as if Dapol are running a tight ship in UK and half the staff goes off with flu, is it?

 

Why are all the other companies suffering delays? You tell me. Why didn't the project race ahead after the work was taken away from Dapol? If there are thousands of cheap hands in China why are none of Dapol's competitors seemingly capable of delivering products on time? I'm no cheerleader for Dapol, but I also think if we as collectors are going to throw mud then we should check whether the mud we throw will stick, and throw it at all the other manufacturers.

['CHARD]

 i n't BR  rop the 'D' from  iesel numbers after 11th August '68?  

 

Then just because  apol have  roppe  out of the project, we shoul n't have  ropped it from the topic content.  

 

As the topic says, it's the D600s.