Steamport Southport Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 They were definitely marshalled with the First at one end, kitchen in the middle and the Third Open attached to the kitchen end. First Class would be served first and you wouldn't disturb them walking through to serve the Third Class diners. Details of formations here. Not totally complete but a good guide. http://www.semgonline.com/coach/maunco01.html http://www.semgonline.com/coach/sets.html Definitely worth getting this book though. Other stockists are available. https://www.speedyhen.com/Product/David-Gould/Maunsells-SR-Steam-Carriage-Stock/2523737 Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack P Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 I would expect them in the next batch along with a Blood and Custard one. Jason I was under the impression that someone in this thread had contacted Hornby, and 'due to tooling' or something like that, they wouldn't be producing any lined ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinTrucks Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 An excellent question for those of us who would like to run realistic coach formations. It also raises the question of where in the train one should place these vehicles. I like to run 8 coach trains on my layout so if I combine a 3 and 4 coach set I would have to increase my limit to 9 coaches to accommodate the restaurant car and the open second. I am no expert on these formations but I do seem to recall that on the Waterloo to Bournemouth line where I watched trains in my youth the dining vehicles were in the middle of the train. ( I.e between 2 coach sets or included in one of them). Were there also occasions where the 2 coach dining set would be marshaled at one end or the other? With careful placement this would also solve the tricky problem posed by RFS in the original post. Those poor first class diners would then be placed at the extreme front or rear of the train. P.s. I know that there were also dedicated sets that included dining vehicles. Does anyone have details of realistic Maunsell vehicle formations we'll be able to reproduce? What specific era do you want to know about? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvrnut Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Well, looks like I will wait for Hornby to produce a lined green version as my layout is set in the mid 1930's. While I do have the Return to Dunkirk set I think it very unlikely that the SR would have used a restaurant car to evacuate troops. Cheers, Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Well, looks like I will wait for Hornby to produce a lined green version as my layout is set in the mid 1930's. While I do have the Return to Dunkirk set I think it very unlikely that the SR would have used a restaurant car to evacuate troops. Cheers, Chris It's worth noting that livery is the simplified livery used from about 1938 (I think that's the date). It wasn't just used on troop trains. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
autocoach Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Ah well, I guess it is curtains for me..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted June 24, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 24, 2018 (edited) So how does one go about making plastic 1/76 scale curtains look more realistic....?I just used a marker pen.. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/116076-Hornby-announce-mk1-fo-and-bso/?p=3142985 (Note I did the table tops and seats too). Edited June 24, 2018 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cor-onGRT4 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 (edited) An excellent question for those of us who would like to run realistic coach formations. It also raises the question of where in the train one should place these vehicles. I like to run 8 coach trains on my layout so if I combine a 3 and 4 coach set I would have to increase my limit to 9 coaches to accommodate the restaurant car and the open second. I am no expert on these formations but I do seem to recall that on the Waterloo to Bournemouth line where I watched trains in my youth the dining vehicles were in the middle of the train. ( I.e between 2 coach sets or included in one of them). Were there also occasions where the 2 coach dining set would be marshaled at one end or the other? With careful placement this would also solve the tricky problem posed by RFS in the original post. Those poor first class diners would then be placed at the extreme front or rear of the train. P.s. I know that there were also dedicated sets that included dining vehicles. Does anyone have details of realistic Maunsell vehicle formations we'll be able to reproduce? Hornby produced a three set 392 [4-compartment third brake -composite- 4 compartment third brake] and brake composites, than you can make te Atlantic Coast Express with these, i only need another one composite brake and than have two prototypical ACE 8 coach rakes complete. For the complete ACE of 1928 you need a 3 set and five composite brakes and two restaurant cars, but the one Hornby producing is from a later period, don''t know if the trainformation was the same at that time. youy can all find it here http://www.railwaywondersoftheworld.com/ace.html http://www.railwaywondersoftheworld.com/atlantic_coast_express2.html hope this will help Edited June 24, 2018 by Cor-onGRT4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnich Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Hornby produced a three set 392 [4-compartment third brake -composite- 4 compartment third brake] and brake composites, than you can make te Atlantic Coast Express with these, i only need another one composite brake and than have two prototypical ACE 8 coach rakes complete. For the complete ACE of 1928 you need a 3 set and five composite brakes and two restaurant cars, but the one Hornby producing is from a later period, don''t know if the trainformation was the same at that time. youy can all find it here http://www.railwaywondersoftheworld.com/ace.html http://www.railwaywondersoftheworld.com/atlantic_coast_express2.html hope this will help Thanks for this and your reply also Jason. To answer Martin Trucks my period of interest is 1950's By the end of that period of course most express trains were Bulleid stock but I'm aiming for representative vs extremely accurate Norm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted June 25, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 25, 2018 If you don’t like the printed curtains, try these. http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/2931.php Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted June 25, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 25, 2018 ... my period of interest is 1950's. By the end of that period of course most express trains were Bulleid stock but I'm aiming for representative vs extremely accurate Norm Not so really. The SR had 3 main types of coaches during the 1950s - Maunsell, Bulleid and BR MK1s. Mass withdrawals of older Maunsell stock only started in mid-1959 when the first phase of the Kent Coast electrification scheme was completed. It was not until 1961-2 until most Maunsell stock had gone. During the 1950s all three types were in regular use on mainline services. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted June 25, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 25, 2018 Not so really. The SR had 3 main types of coaches during the 1950s - Maunsell, Bulleid and BR MK1s. Mass withdrawals of older Maunsell stock only started in mid-1959 when the first phase of the Kent Coast electrification scheme was completed. It was not until 1961-2 until most Maunsell stock had gone. During the 1950s all three types were in regular use on mainline services. Yes, but. There were certainly plenty of Maunsells in service, but decreasing numbers were in mainline service, having been cascaded to secondary routes, e.g. Tonbridge - Reading, by the influx of Bulleids and then Mk 1s. As you say, Kent Coast virtually wiped them out by releasing so many newer sets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 It's worth noting that livery is the simplified livery used from about 1938 (I think that's the date). It wasn't just used on troop trains. Jason Depends on your definition of 'simplified' ! ...... The amount of lining applied to new / repainted coaches was reduced somewhat earlier ( '35 / '36 )* but this coach represents one repainted - sorry 'revarnished' - during the war without any lining whatsoever. Had it been repainted properly it would have received malachite green at that date. ( The Restaurant Cars refurbished in 1938 received curtains "of gold and green in harmony with the upholstery" - so I suspect Hornby's "Pied Wagtail" colouring may not be totally correct for pre- or post-war Southern vehicles ........ and maybe not for anything else either !!?! ) * see Hornby's 2HAL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnich Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Yes, but. There were certainly plenty of Maunsells in service, but decreasing numbers were in mainline service, having been cascaded to secondary routes, e.g. Tonbridge - Reading, by the influx of Bulleids and then Mk 1s. As you say, Kent Coast virtually wiped them out by releasing so many newer sets. That's certainly my recollection of the mid fifties on the Waterloo Bournemouth line. A mixture of Maunsell and Bulleid coaches with I believe Mk 1 on the ACE. I think ( stand to be corrected) the more important trains had Bulleid dining sets but almost every Bournemouth train had some dining facilities and they couldn't all have been Bulleid stock in the mid fifties. Hence my original observation that I'm hoping that coupling a restaurant car and an open second between 2 three car sets, or a three car and a four car set would be at least somewhat 'correct' for the somewhat shorter trains I must live with. Normal train lengths I observed in real life ranged from 9 to 13 vehicles Norm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnich Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Of course for the period I try to portray - more or less pre 1956 cycling lion emblem, I really should have more blood and custard vehicles than BR green but that is a whole different issue and I like to think my green coaches are revarnished southern green!! After so long without proper dining cars I can live with the green one we are getting. I do vividly recall how mixed the livery was in the trains of my youth, becoming progressively more uniform green as the decade progressed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted June 25, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) That's certainly my recollection of the mid fifties on the Waterloo Bournemouth line. A mixture of Maunsell and Bulleid coaches with I believe Mk 1 on the ACE. I think ( stand to be corrected) the more important trains had Bulleid dining sets but almost every Bournemouth train had some dining facilities and they couldn't all have been Bulleid stock in the mid fifties. Hence my original observation that I'm hoping that coupling a restaurant car and an open second between 2 three car sets, or a three car and a four car set would be at least somewhat 'correct' for the somewhat shorter trains I must live with. Normal train lengths I observed in real life ranged from 9 to 13 vehicles Norm There were 11 specially-designed Bulleid 6-car dining sets for the Bournemouth line - set numbers 290-300. This may well have covered most requirements. The Royal Wessex was provided with new MK1s it was regarded as a prestige service. A useful source of information is the SR coach sets file on the SEMG web-site - http://www.semgonline.com/coach/sets.html I also find looking at old films informative: here's one described as a trip from Victoria to Ramsgate with steam in 1960 (actually 1959 as it pre-dates the electrification). The mix of stock is fascinating - Maunsells, Bulleids, MK1s and Pullmans with most of the MK1s being in crimson and cream. One formation that keeps cropping up is a 4-car BR MK1 set with two Pullmans in the middle and with a couple of Maunsell 3rds or composites on the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEozeWXSoxk Edited June 25, 2018 by RFS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnich Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 There were 11 specially-designed Bulleid 6-car dining sets for the Bournemouth line - set numbers 290-300. This may well have covered most requirements. The Royal Wessex was provided with new MK1s it was regarded as a prestige service. A useful source of information is the SR coach sets file on the SEMG web-site - http://www.semgonline.com/coach/sets.html I also find looking at old films informative: here's one described as a trip from Victoria to Ramsgate with steam in 1960 (actually 1959 as it pre-dates the electrification). The mix of stock is fascinating - Maunsells, Bulleids, MK1s and Pullmans with most of the MK1s being in crimson and cream. One formation that keeps cropping up is a 4-car BR MK1 set with two Pullmans in the middle and with a couple of Maunsell 3rds or composites on the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEozeWXSoxk Thanks RFS. I will certainly watch that clip and others of the period. Also, yes. I meant to say I recall the Royal Wessex with Mk1's. Not the ACE which of course was not seen in my base of Winchester Norm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 Depends on your definition of 'simplified' ! ...... The amount of lining applied to new / repainted coaches was reduced somewhat earlier ( '35 / '36 )* but this coach represents one repainted - sorry 'revarnished' - during the war without any lining whatsoever. Had it been repainted properly it would have received malachite green at that date. ( The Restaurant Cars refurbished in 1938 received curtains "of gold and green in harmony with the upholstery" - so I suspect Hornby's "Pied Wagtail" colouring may not be totally correct for pre- or post-war Southern vehicles ........ and maybe not for anything else either !!?! ) * see Hornby's 2HAL The use of Malachite was stopped during the war. 1941 I think, just after the Bulleid Pacifics arrived. Locomotives were quickly repainted black. The Luftwaffe was using them as target practice as they could see them from literally miles away. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 The use of Malachite was stopped during the war. 1941 I think, just after the Bulleid Pacifics arrived. Locomotives were quickly repainted black. The Luftwaffe was using them as target practice as they could see them from literally miles away. Jason I don't think anything was painted quickly ! ..... MOST locos received a coat of black in due course and most coaches only got a touch-up ( "revarnishing" ) of their existing paint - whether Maunsell green or malachite. There was no ban on malachite and even a handful of parcels vans received it - though greater numbers of vans & coaches got a coat of grey instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Did I blink ? ....... has anybody mentioned that July seems to have become September ? ................................. can't say I'm surprised ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Godfrey Glyn Posted June 27, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 27, 2018 Did I blink ? ....... has anybody mentioned that July seems to have become September ? ................................. can't say I'm surprised ! Hornby website still says July, where did your information come from Wickham Green? Having seen your comment I wouldn't be surprised either! all the best Godfrey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) Hornby still show July for both versions on their 2018 releases. An update from "Little Dan" of Derails fame last week on my pre-order, also gives July. Hattons however are stating September availability on their website. At the end of the day it will arrive when it arrives. This is one release I'm really looking forward to receiving, both look superb! Edited June 27, 2018 by Black 5 Bear Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big James Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 I’ve noticed they’ve been moved into the coming soon section of the Hornby website. I don’t know if this means anything or not though. Big James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted June 27, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) I’ve noticed they’ve been moved into the coming soon section of the Hornby website. I don’t know if this means anything or not though. Big James Class 87's have been "coming soon" since Warley. Edited June 27, 2018 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Hornby still show July for both versions on their 2018 releases. An update from "Little Dan" of Derails fame last week on my pre-order, also gives July. Hattons however are stating September availability on their website. At the end of the day it will arrive when it arrives. This is one release I'm really looking forward to receiving, both look superb! Yes - it was Hattons I looked at as that's where my order is ............ maybe they're jumping a gun that doesn't have to be jumped !!?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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