Wright writes.....

[jamie92208]

Does he have one called Bantam?

I presume it hauls a train with a through coach to Littlehampton.....

 

Jamie

[robertcwp]

 

 

60002 Grove Road.jpg

 

I've built a model of 60002, but didn't put the dent in the front casing or that scuff behind the buffer on the LH side.

 

 

Interesting formation behind 60002 with a BSK and CK leading, then a BSO, three seconds, third of which could well be for dining, then a Thompson kitchen car with probably a Thompson open first for dining beyond, and three further carriages with the rear one being a BCK or BSO. Wonder what the service was.

[Tony Wright]

Hello Tony

 

A question if I may?

When I see the fiddle yard empty like it is in these photos it makes me wonder how you designed it. Is there a secret or is it trial and error?

 

Jon

It was 'sort of' designed, Jon,

 

By that I mean, that once it was found that I could fit 20 roads on to a three foot wide board, the next question was how to configure the points for entry/exit? I did some scribblings on graph paper, then sort of 'shuffled' the points having established their approximate positions. 

 

 

I made a simple plastic card jig for track spacing. This gives the minimum practicable distance apart, meaning there isn't room for fingers should a derailment occur. That's why the greatest care was taken in track-laying. Skimp on this, and poor running is the result. 

 

 

In order to ensure the best running, the points were configured so that no train need negotiate more than three points to enter/leave a fiddle yard road (derailments are most common on pointwork in my experience - other than at dud baseboard joints). Thus, there's a 'king point', 'queen point' and 'jack point' system I employed. This is based on experience operating other fiddle yards, where a sort of 'ladder'' is used, with a train, in some cases, having to ride over up to ten points before reaching its road. 

 

 

The result has been consistent, trouble-free running. I used Peco Code 100 because of its robustness and longevity, though it doesn't look like real track at all. No matter, because it's function, rather than appearance which matters here. The later Peco Code 100 pointwork is much finer these days, and a far cry from its 'universal' origins. 

 

Try to cram too much in, have points of tighter radii and too sharp bends and the result is compromised running. Something, as you know, I'll not tolerate.

 

All these images have appeared in my Crowood book. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Interesting formation behind 60002 with a BSK and CK leading, then a BSO, three seconds, third of which could well be for dining, then a Thompson kitchen car with probably a Thompson open first for dining beyond, and three further carriages with the rear one being a BCK or BSO. Wonder what the service was.

I've not found it in any of my BR documents, Robert,

 

Is it an extra/relief? Unlikely with a full RK? 

 

I'd put the date at about 1960, but 60002 was one of the last A4s to get electric warning flashes. 

[St Enodoc]

When I test run motors (without suppressors) in the workshop the DAB radio goes silent.

It's a manifestation of Hutber's Law (improvement means deterioration). Our DAB radio comes and goes as you walk around the house - or, keeping things on topic, the railway room.

[Lecorbusier]

Just a quick observation here Mr W........ are you preaching to the vast majority of railway modellers that a layout should follow prototype practice, and even better an exact copy of the track plan of one's choice of location, but when it comes to rolling stock you model just what you see through rose tinted glasses? 

 

Each and every item of rolling stock I model is copied faithfully from photographs - that's the way it was, warts an' all. Nothing roughshod and poor about that!

It certainly is a conundrum. When does it work and when not ... that is the skill me thinks. If a ding gives the model real character then great. However if it makes the model look slapdash and poorly put together, then that would to my mind be a problem. For my part I think I will generally stick to trying to build things square and true and rely on weathering to supply a lived in appearance when required.

[Headstock]

I've not found it in any of my BR documents, Robert,

 

Is it an extra/relief? Unlikely with a full RK? 

 

I'd put the date at about 1960, but 60002 was one of the last A4s to get electric warning flashes. 

 

Traditionally speaking, the LNER built stand alone Kitchen Cars for excursion work. This was somewhat chucked out by the Thompson carriages built for the post-war Flying Scotsman etc. However, in an attempt to cut the weight of many trains in the 1950's, the Thompson Kitchen cars were relegated from the principal expresses to the excursion fleet. On the face of it, a train at such a late date with a Thompson RK in the formation would indicate an excursion train.

 

There are a couple of things that may indicate that this not the case. The last five carriages are all Thompson and at least some seem to be carrying roof boards. In addition, the leading two MK1's look like a typical portion of the type not associated with excursion trains.

 

There are two possibilities I feel. A hastily assembled extra to a principal service that required both catering and a portion, the train does look like a MK1 set joined onto a Thompson one. Alternatively, the simple substitution of a full Kitchen Car for a failed catering carriage of a more familiar type, this may have also required the addition of an open first. With this in mind, it may make more sense when trying to locate a possible candidate for the train in the relevant CWN.

 

Edited to add.

 

Relief would be the better term rather than extra.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Headstock

[Headstock]

It certainly is a conundrum. When does it work and when not ... that is the skill me thinks. If a ding gives the model real character then great. However if it makes the model look slapdash and poorly put together, then that would to my mind be a problem. For my part I think I will generally stick to trying to build things square and true and rely on weathering to supply a lived in appearance when required.

 

Pipe runs are always a good place to start, with a bit of in-service distortion that adds individuality to locomotives.

[Woodcock29]

I'm jealous - I only wish I could be there for the practice and the main sessions. I'll be there in spirit and in fact when the main sessions later in August are under way I'll only be a short distance away, Cologne then Amsterdam much closer than normal but never mind I look forward to seeing the photos.

Andrew

[robertcwp]

Traditionally speaking, the LNER built stand alone Kitchen Cars for excursion work. This was somewhat chucked out by the Thompson carriages built for the post-war Flying Scotsman etc. However, in an attempt to cut the weight of many trains in the 1950's, the Thompson Kitchen cars were relegated from the principal expresses to the excursion fleet. On the face of it, a train at such a late date with a Thompson RK in the formation would indicate an excursion train.

 

There are a couple of things that may indicate that this not the case. The last five carriages are all Thompson and at least some seem to be carrying roof boards. In addition, the leading two MK1's look like a typical portion of the type not associated with excursion trains.

 

There are two possibilities I feel. A hastily assembled extra to a principal service that required both catering and a portion, the train does look like a MK1 set joined onto a Thompson one. Alternatively, the simple substitution of a full Kitchen Car for a failed catering carriage of a more familiar type, this may have also required the addition of an open first. With this in mind, it may make more sense when trying to locate a possible candidate for the train in the relevant CWN.

I think the most likely candidate is a misformed 11.00 am Kings Cross-Glasgow, with portion for Aberdeen on the front. Another candidate might be the Heart of Midlothian, minus headboard.

[Headstock]

I think the most likely candidate is a misformed 11.00 am Kings Cross-Glasgow, with portion for Aberdeen on the front. Another candidate might be the Heart of Midlothian, minus headboard.

 

Good morning Robert,

 

I've just spotted that at least two of the MK1's are also are carrying destination boards, including the leading brake. Do you recognize the location? Something to note, that the Heart of Midlothian had a crimson and cream brake in the Aberdeen portion at around the time that the photo has been reported to have been taken. I assume the locomotive is from Gateshead shed.

[Tony Wright]

Good morning Robert,

 

I've just spotted that at least two of the MK1's are also are carrying destination boards, including the leading brake. Do you recognize the location? Something to note, that the Heart of Midlothian had a crimson and cream brake in the Aberdeen portion at around the time that the photo has been reported to have been taken. I assume the locomotive is from Gateshead shed.

Andrew,

 

The location is Gamston Bank, just south of Retford, and the A4 is descending on a Down train. 

 

In conversation with Peter Coster, he thought it highly-unlikely that a 52A A4 would be on the Down 'Heart of Midlothian'. At the time, it was usually the job of a New England A2/3, at least as far as Newcastle. 

[Tony Wright]

Apart from some rather nondescript wagons, all of LB is now clear for LNER trains to commence running tomorrow and Sunday. 

 

 

 

The two substitute signals will be installed on Sunday - the Down fast starter and the Up slow/fast starter, which were still somersaults in 1938. 

 

All the out-of-period road vehicles (I hope) have been removed, though the station signage and later-style ground signals will have to stay. There is a limit...............

[Clive Mortimore]

I am looking forward to "Little Bytham the Modern Image Session" so I can build that lovely OLE power feed station just down the road from Tony's house. 

[LNER4479]

All the out-of-period road vehicles (I hope) have been removed...............

Note to self - try and remember to look out horses n carts...

[Enterprisingwestern]

Here's hoping everyones b-b's are suitable for the layout!

 

Mike.

[jrg1]

Pipe runs are always a good place to start, with a bit of in-service distortion that adds individuality to locomotives.

I totally agree with Lecorbusier.  What is correct on the real thing may look very different in miniature.  I aim to have handrails and pipework as per works drawings-I feel that any distortion or droops looks like bad workmanship.  Putting dents in an A4's casing would look like someone clumsy dropped it, as far as I am concerned.

Decent weathering gives individuality-TW's O4 would have minor damage all over, plus a dropped buffer beam to have fidelity with a workhorse getting on for 50 years worth of hard slog, but the model still looks the part with a decent build and judicious weathering.

[Headstock]

I totally agree with Lecorbusier.  What is correct on the real thing may look very different in miniature.  I aim to have handrails and pipework as per works drawings-I feel that any distortion or droops looks like bad workmanship.  Putting dents in an A4's casing would look like someone clumsy dropped it, as far as I am concerned.

Decent weathering gives individuality-TW's O4 would have minor damage all over, plus a dropped buffer beam to have fidelity with a workhorse getting on for 50 years worth of hard slog, but the model still looks the part with a decent build and judicious weathering.

 

Nah, a bit of bent pipe work gets your model closer to the real thing without the model looking like poor workmanship.

[Headstock]

Andrew,

 

The location is Gamston Bank, just south of Retford, and the A4 is descending on a Down train. 

 

In conversation with Peter Coster, he thought it highly-unlikely that a 52A A4 would be on the Down 'Heart of Midlothian'. At the time, it was usually the job of a New England A2/3, at least as far as Newcastle. 

Tony,

 

yes, that the down Heart of Midlothian was a New England Pacific turn, but stranger things have happened. However, too many events would have to conspire for it to be the Heart of Midlothian, a foreign engine, a replacement catering carriage and also the lack of the P.V. third/second with LRR. Given the foreign engine and the interesting formation, I'm inclined to think it is a relief to a principal, probably Scotish, express.

 

Best of look with the LNER days. They say the grass is always greener, in this case, LNER grass green but LB is a fine layout in its late BR steam period anyway in my book.

[Tony Wright]

I am looking forward to "Little Bytham the Modern Image Session" so I can build that lovely OLE power feed station just down the road from Tony's house. 

It's one thing to go 20 years into the past, Clive (when precious little was different), but going 30 years into the future, when just about everything changed?

 

In a word, 'never', but thanks for the thought. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Here's hoping everyones b-b's are suitable for the layout!

 

Mike.

We'll soon find out. 

 

What is different is the degrees of 'tolerance' between the 'scale' trackwork on the scenic side and the Peco trackwork in the fiddle yard. 

 

Just about every more-modern RTR product will run without fuss through the Peco points, because their flangeways are cruder. So much so that, even though they can no longer be described as 'universal' (universally bad?), Gibson-type wheels will drop into the 'V's though they don't derail (the dropping is another reason why I don't use them). Jackson/Romford/Markits don't, because of their fatter tyre. Those same J/R/M wheels run perfectly through the C&L pointwork on the scenic section, which gives me the 'best of both worlds'. 

 

As I say we'll find out whether everyone's locos/stock do/does the same. Though I use little in the way of RTR locos (Grantham uses more), almost every item will have had the b-t-bs checked (to 14.5) before service on LB. Heljan's O2s have been almost universally tight, as have some Hornby and Bachmann ones. Some of Bachmann's tender wheels (particularly the WD and A1/A2) have flanges so deep that they clatter over the C&L chairs, though not through the plain SMP trackwork. Since these won't be used, then that's not a problem. Almost every RTR rolling stock wheel has been replaced, though, I'm told, more recent ones are better. However, force of habit and suspicion mean I continue to change.

 

I suppose what it boils down to is, for 'successful' running, the wheels and trackwork have to be entirely compatible. Luckily, I've (we've) achieved that, and poor running/derailments is/are extremely rare. I hope this continues, 20 years into the past. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Edited July 27, 2018 by Tony Wright

[Lecorbusier]

Nah, a bit of bent pipe work gets your model closer to the real thing without the model looking like poor workmanship.

Super bit of modelling .... interestingly the excellence of the rest of the build makes the bent pipe look convincing. Not sure it would work on the more extreme examples or indeed an aspects of the loco which the eye expects to be true and square (the cab for instance) - but would be more than chuffed to be proved wrong.

[Headstock]

Super bit of modelling .... interestingly the excellence of the rest of the build makes the bent pipe look convincing. Not sure it would work on the more extreme examples or indeed an aspects of the loco which the eye expects to be true and square (the cab for instance) - but would be more than chuffed to be proved wrong.

 

Many thanks, you are very kind.

 

 

It's a matter of contrast I feel. You need the straight and square to play off against those parts that are relatively flexible in real life. If everything is given the same weight it looks like a toy. Look how artificial the pipework looks on the Bachmann WD compared to the real thing.

 

 

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8096/8446275922_d6d53bb640_b.jpg

 

 

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/81/0c/a5/810ca5c332b97fe2eb7caaeefe3ab6f7.jpg

 

 

You can draw lubrication pipe runs as straight as a die on a works drawing, not so easy when your plumbing up the real thing. It's about what looks right or wrong, anything that could be mistaken for poor workmanship looks like poor workmanship, Conversely, some materials used in locomotive construction had a certain amount of flex, as a result, they look fake if presented as too rigid or stretched taught as if they were a guitar string.

 

P.S. The double couplings on the WD are rather nice modeling detail I thought. I bet that's not on the works drawing!

Edited July 27, 2018 by Headstock

[Clive Mortimore]

It's one thing to go 20 years into the past, Clive (when precious little was different), but going 30 years into the future, when just about everything changed?

 

In a word, 'never', but thanks for the thought. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I don't know, I make an offer. I hadn't even started to negotiate a price. I would have thrown in for free the building that looks like a scout hut by what was the MR bridge.

[Tony Wright]

Super bit of modelling .... interestingly the excellence of the rest of the build makes the bent pipe look convincing. Not sure it would work on the more extreme examples or indeed an aspects of the loco which the eye expects to be true and square (the cab for instance) - but would be more than chuffed to be proved wrong.

Tim,

 

I agree entirely.

 

Things like lighting conduits along the RH side of locos like B1s and K1s tend to droop, especially after some time. Some, though, stay quite straight.

 

 

This is one of my ancient Nu-Cast B1s, sitting on a Comet set of frames (the older type, taken from the Roche drawing, with the too-short eccentric rod). I built/painted/weathered it. It tows a Bachmann B1 tender. The conduit is made from 30Amp fusewire, soldered at the boiler bands.

 

 

 

My DMR K1, again built/painted by me, but weathered by Tom Foster. Again, the conduit is fusewire, and it's quite straight. 

 

I assume RTR equivalents of B1s and K1s, those fitted with electric lighting, have dead-straight (moulded-on?) representations of these features. Not owning any, I don't know. 

 

Adding this sort of detail oneself, really personalises a model. Like Headstock's.