Wright writes.....

[davefrk]

Some not-much-happening shots from this morning. 

 

Trains running 53 goods yard.jpg

 

Trains running 54 goods yard.jpg

 

Trains running 55 goods yard.jpg

 

Trains running 56 goods yard.jpg

 

Trains running 57 goods yard.jpg

 

Points to self to note.............

 

Anything not weathered stands out as being entirely unnatural.

 

Always check couplings dangle properly before taking a picture.

 

If something has a missing wheel, it'll probably show in a picture. 

 

Simple scenes like these show how realistic the LNER stock is. 

Oh Tony, Tony, Tony.... lovely LNER stock yes but some GNR or LNER bufferstops would really set the photos off for me.

 

Dave.

[Tony Wright]

Oh Tony, Tony, Tony.... lovely LNER stock yes but some GNR or LNER bufferstops would really set the photos off for me.

 

Dave.

I agree Dave,

 

I need five GNR buffer stops. How much, please? 

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Tony

I feel your pain, trying to sort out the running of the little tank engine you helped build the frames for, I broke one of the rods, so am now making a replacement. Aaaaaaaagh.

I will not be defeated by a little 2-4-0.

Richard

How did you 'break a rod' Richard? 

 

I made those out of filed-down nickel silver rail. 

 

I also liked 'you helped build the frames for'. Didn't I make them while you watched? 

 

Have fun. Just use the surviving rod as a pattern. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[davefrk]

I agree Dave,

 

I need five GNR buffer stops. How much, please? 

 

Tony. 

 Hi Tony, if you have photos I could maybe id them for you as I do three GNR types and by your period there may well be a few LNER ones as replacements.

 

Dave.

[Black Marlin]

I see they still haven't fitted the name plates to 6229.....

 

May be they were thrown in the scrap bin along with the tin bath tub arrangement, or perhaps respect is being shown for the fervently republican ideas of the similarly named former member for West Fife and Fife Central?

 

Given the average speed of an O4-hauled mineral train, perhaps nameplates reading 'Duchess of Ambleton' might be appropriate?

[Clive Mortimore]

How did you 'break a rod' Richard? 

 

I made those out of filed-down nickel silver rail. 

 

I also liked 'you helped build the frames for'. Didn't I make them while you watched? 

 

Have fun. Just use the surviving rod as a pattern. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hello Tony

 

Which subject does Richard teach?

 

 

 

History?

 

 

Why would his view on what happened be to his advantage? Like all history you only hear the victor's version.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[richard i]

Tony

Clarification: You did build, I did watch. It was a great help to me.

The rod broke at the hole drilled out for the crank pin. I had to open them out some more to fit the newer style of crankpin washer(?) which are a screw fit to the pin now rather that the original soldered push fit ones. My clumsiness.

 

Clive

I am not the victor here, the loco is winning.

 

Richard

[Chamby]

Clive, totally off topic but I've got to ask...   your hair - were you standing too close to the OHLE?

[Woodcock29]

Terrific photos Tony. Although I'm on holiday in Europe these are still some of the highlights of each day!

Andrew

[cctransuk]

The rod broke at the hole drilled out for the crank pin. I had to open them out some more to fit the newer style of crankpin washer(?) which are a screw fit to the pin now rather that the original soldered push fit ones. My clumsiness.

 

 

Easily done !

 

I am currently assembling Comet etched chassis for three Airfix 4Fs; Comet coupling rods are quite substantial - two layers of thickish nickel silver.

 

Nonetheless, having soldered up the first set of rods; (rigid, in the best Tony Wright fashion); I then set to opening out the crankpin holes with a broach. The rods are etched with 1.0mm. holes; Markits' deluxe crankpins, (the threaded ones), require 1.5mm. holes.

 

Broaching the holes raised burrs on the outside faces of the rods and, I discovered, BETWEEN the rod laminations, to the extent that the soldered joint failed locally. That was fun to sort out - NOT.

 

That was yesterday - today I tried a different approach with the second set of rods, and opened up the holes to 1.4mm with successively larger drills, in 0.1mm. steps, to 1.4mm. I then soldered the laminations together, and only then did I use the broach to open up the last bit to 1.5mm.

 

Opening up holes with drills goes against the grain, but going from 1.0mm. to 1.5mm. using just a broach was just not on.

 

Markits' deluxe crankpins are very nice, and do away with the need to solder rod retainers, but they do require largish holes in substantial rods.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Tony Wright]

Three pictures to finish off today, showing fast trains at the south end of LB. 

 

 

A K3 rattles by on a fully-fitted goods.

 

 

I really like this picture, showing, as it does, the sort of top job given to the Ivatt Atlantics before more Gresley Pacifics came on stream. Twenty years later, such jobs were in the hands of the Peppercorn A1s. 

 

 

And, 30 years before the A1s were on the Pullmans, B3s could be seen on them. These two Pullman rakes are mine, and, although they don't lean (and are certainly not made of rubber!), the springs would appear to be worn on a couple of the cars. They were made by me over 26 years ago now, from Hornby donors, fitted with Comet sides, running on MJT bogies and painted by Ian Rathbone. 

[LNER4479]

 

I really like this picture, showing, as it does, the sort of top job given to the Ivatt Atlantics before more Gresley Pacifics came on stream.  

Related historical note: The Gresley pacifics were originally banned between Doncaster and Leeds due to the condition of the bridge crossing the river Calder near Wakefield. The Queen of Scots Pullman service went this way (taking the Leeds Northern route to re-join the ECML at Northallerton) and hence, as it was a shortish formation pre-war, the Atlantics were kept diagrammed to work the service from London up until bridge strengthening works were finally undertaken in 1936. Thereafter, two pacifics were allocated to Copley Hill and took over the workings. Without said strengthening works, there could of course have been no West Riding streamliner train hauled by A4s.

[Tony Wright]

 Hi Tony, if you have photos I could maybe id them for you as I do three GNR types and by your period there may well be a few LNER ones as replacements.

 

Dave.

I don't have any close-up pictures of the 'stops, Dave.

 

However, since all of them were installed in 1911, it's unlikely that they'd have needed replacement by BR days. What was the average life of a set of buffer stops? Would they last over 40 years? Unless they were rammed and destroyed. 

 

How about three (later-style) GNR types and two LNER types (just to be sure)? How much, please? 

 

Edited to alter clumsy English. 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

Tony

Clarification: You did build, I did watch. It was a great help to me.

The rod broke at the hole drilled out for the crank pin. I had to open them out some more to fit the newer style of crankpin washer(?) which are a screw fit to the pin now rather that the original soldered push fit ones. My clumsiness.

 

Clive

I am not the victor here, the loco is winning.

 

Richard

Thanks for the clarification, Richard, though, as you probably surmised, my comment was tongue in cheek. 

 

It does have a more serious side, though.

 

A couple of weeks ago I visited a layout, not far from me, with Norman Solomon. Norman had built most of it, made all the track, wired it all up, installed the signals and made all the point rodding. He'd also done almost all the scenic work. The architectural modelling and the locos/stock were the work of others. It was a wonderful layout. The whole thing had been built almost entirely on commission, and Norman was playing a routine call to install new point motors (replacing the failing Fulgurex ones) and to do general maintenance. 

 

The layout has been published in the model press, yet Norman got only the briefest of mentions. 

 

I've seen this sort of thing before (too many times) where the writer/owner is not actually a 'railway modeller', not in the sense I intend to convey, anyway. I'm accusing nobody of lying, but they don't always tell the whole truth, by omission. By that, I mean they 'puff out' at praise and even enjoy the status of 'being famous', when all they've done is to 'manage' a project where all the modelling work has been done by others. That said, there is great merit in managing a project well - it requires research and strong leadership, and it ensures that professional model-makers continue to be employed. However, on occasions (by omission), folk believe that the 'manager' is also the builder, which is definitely not fair. 

 

That is why, even to the point of repetitive repetition (how's that for tautology?), I always name and give credit to the (many) others who've contributed to the building of Little Bytham. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Re6/6]

"they don't always tell the whole truth, by omission" ...." However, on occasions (by omission), folk believe that the 'manager' is also the builder, which is definitely not fair." 

 

That really is appalling Tony. Cheque book modelling at its worst. Full credit to the professional builders should always be given.......but that probably won't ever be the norm.

[grahame]

Wash your mouth out. GCR loco green was a magnificent Middle Brunswick Green, fully lined out in black, white and vermillion. The GWR and BR used "dull cowpat green".

 

 

Nah, green, of any shade, has never suited a train or loco. Green just looks grubby and grimy and lacks aesthetic imagination. Maroon is morose and muddy, while brown is dull and boring. Bring back all over black? Or even BR blue?

 

But, TBH, nothing has bettered, before or since, the timeless, bright and breezy NSE toothpaste livery.

 

G

[Chamby]

"they don't always tell the whole truth, by omission" ...." However, on occasions (by omission), folk believe that the 'manager' is also the builder, which is definitely not fair." 

 

That really is appalling Tony. Cheque book modelling at its worst. Full credit to the professional builders should always be given.......but that probably won't ever be the norm.

I understand your sentiment John, but in the eyes of the one who holds the chequebook, they probably don’t see the transaction as any different to buying some wire from Rapid Online, or a point from Peco! It is simply one of many commercial transactions they make as they build (assemble) their own project. Sad but true.

[Bucoops]

Nah, green, of any shade, has never suited a train or loco. Green just looks grubby and grimy and lacks aesthetic imagination. Maroon is morose and muddy, while brown is dull and boring. Bring back all over black? Or even BR blue?

 

But, TBH, nothing has bettered, before or since, the timeless, bright and breezy NSE toothpaste livery.

 

G

 

Poor disillusioned soul

[gr.king]

Related historical note: The Gresley pacifics were originally banned between Doncaster and Leeds due to the condition of the bridge crossing the river Calder near Wakefield. The Queen of Scots Pullman service went this way (taking the Leeds Northern route to re-join the ECML at Northallerton) and hence, as it was a shortish formation pre-war, the Atlantics were kept diagrammed to work the service from London up until bridge strengthening works were finally undertaken in 1936. Thereafter, two pacifics were allocated to Copley Hill and took over the workings. Without said strengthening works, there could of course have been no West Riding streamliner train hauled by A4s.

Did the Atlantics have a monopoly on those Pullman workings? Even after the trial of the ex GC B3s on GN section Pullmans had ended, plenty of ex GC B4 4-6-0s were kept on for years at former GN West Riding sheds. I gather they were there specifically to provide an appropriate form of six-coupled power on the heavier Leeds trains over the undulating weight-restricted sections. I believe this freed up for other and better uses the K2s that the GN had previously used when necessary to handle the trains that were a bit too much for four-coupled Atlantic power, the B4s of course having a more appropriate coupled wheel size and a leading bogie to suit running at passenger train speeds.

Edited August 10, 2018 by gr.king

[davefrk]

I don't have any close-up pictures of the 'stops, Dave.

 

However, since all them were installed in 1911, it's unlikely that they'd have needed replacement by BR days. What was the average life of a set of buffer stops? Would they last over 40 years? Unless they were rammed and destroyed. 

 

How about three (later-style) GNR types and two LNER types (just to be sure)? How much, please? 

Hi Tony, I'll look back through the thread as there were a few showing the bufferstops.

Bufferstops did/do last a lifetime unless hit hard as you say, replacement was common on headshunts or lyes that's why I mentioned it.. Some pre-goup buffers are still around today, we have a heavy Caledonian bufferstop near us all painted up Notwork rail yellow - where do you think I got the detail photos from for the model....

I'll check out my books also.

 

All the best,

 

Dave.

[grahame]

Poor disillusioned soul

 

But the one person who didn't get fooled by dreary steam loco liveries and could see the light. 

 

G

[APOLLO]

I don't have any close-up pictures of the 'stops, Dave.

 

However, since all them were installed in 1911, it's unlikely that they'd have needed replacement by BR days. What was the average life of a set of buffer stops? Would they last over 40 years? Unless they were rammed and destroyed. 

 

How about three (later-style) GNR types and two LNER types (just to be sure)? How much, please? 

 

Tony, you might find this of interest. "Smashing" stuff !!

 

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-buffer-stop-tests-at-bradford-1945-online

 

Brit15

[LNER4479]

Did the Atlantics have a monopoly on those Pullman workings? Even after the trial of the ex GC B3s on GN section Pullmans had ended, plenty of ex GC B4 4-6-0s were kept on for years at former GN West Riding sheds. I gather they were there specifically to provide an appropriate form of six-coupled power on the heavier Leeds trains over the undulating weight-restricted sections. I believe this freed up for other and better uses the K2s that the GN had previously used when necessary to handle the trains that were a bit too much for four-coupled Atlantic power, the B4s of course having a more appropriate coupled wheel size and a leading bogie to suit running at passenger train speeds.

You indeed right to point out that there were many heavier trains that were required to be hauled between Doncaster (where the pacific would have to come off) and Leeds. Some trains shed a portion for Hull at Donny but otherwise they would still be quite sizeable trains at least as far as Wakefield (Bradford portion detached) for which the more powerful ex-GC types would have indeed been useful. The trial of the B3s on the southern section only appears to have lasted for a few years. Valour herself was transferred back to Gorton in 1927 but, ironically, was transferred to Copley Hill in 1942 for working between Leeds and Doncaster (after the bridge had been strengthened!?) But of course, that was during extraordinary times.

 

The only picture I've seen of a loco other than an Atlantic on the Queen of Scots Pullman after the B3s and prior to the pacifics taking over is of a Director (5510 Princess Mary), photographed by Maurice Earley in 1932, heading southbound. Was that a substitute for a failure or did they work the train regularly for a time? Interestingly, on the same day Mr Earley photographed the northbound West Riding Pullman exiting Stoke Tunnel hauled by an immaculate Atlantic 3284 - and I mean immaculate, polished buffers, the works! Coach roofs aren't white though...

[Tony Wright]

"they don't always tell the whole truth, by omission" ...." However, on occasions (by omission), folk believe that the 'manager' is also the builder, which is definitely not fair." 

 

That really is appalling Tony. Cheque book modelling at its worst. Full credit to the professional builders should always be given.......but that probably won't ever be the norm.

Thanks John,

 

I think you're probably right. 

 

Even some of the best-known modellers haven't always told 'everything'. You probably realise I know Norman Solomon very well, and he was a bit miffed when a famous author (no names, of course) related in one of his books that he'd had 'some assistance from Norman Solomon' in describing how his layout had been built. Some assistance? Norman built the baseboards, made and laid the track, did all the ballasting, wired the whole lot up, created the scenery, installed the signals and made many of the buildings/structures. As I say, 'some assistance'. I think any 'assistance' was given by the author. 

 

The subject of 'chequebook modelling' has come up a few times on this thread, and comments occasionally appear which would seem to be derogatory to it. I don't have the slightest problem with the notion of someone paying for a service (I do it all the time with my cars, especially when I had the TVR) but no one should ever make folk 'believe' (by omission) that they've done the work themselves.

 

If someone describes their layout in the media but doesn't mention everyone who's contributed to it (especially where it's been virtually all built for them') then readers might (will?) assume that the work is all that of the writer, especially as introductions often begin in the first person with 'I'm building' such and such a model, when it should read 'I'm having built' such and such a model. 

 

Obviously, it can be a bit tedious where every picture's description has a long list of contributors, but the narrative should always include everyone who's been party to a layout's creation. 

 

 

In the case of this shot (featuring LB in LNER days) the list of contributors to this scene include Norman Solomon, Ian Wilson, Graham Nicholas, Mick Nicholson, Bob Dawson, John Houlden, Rob Davey, Geoff West, 'Anglian', Graeme King, Jonathan Wealleans and me (if I've missed anyone off, my apologies). That's a dozen (at least), and (I hope) this shot shows how, despite so many contributors' individual work, the overall standard is entirely consistent. What's also pleasing is that, in creating it, not a lot of money has changed hands! 

 

Carrying on with the theme of the LNER on LB...........................

 

 

The biggest difference (other than the liveries) between the 1938 period and my 1958 depiction is the proportion of freight trains to passenger trains. There are far more freights in the earlier period than in the later. In fact, in my period, over 85% of the trains are passenger ones (as it should be), whereas, just glancing around, I'd say that the passenger trains for 1938 constitute less than 25% of the trains. It could be because the builders have made more freight locos/stock, and that is their preference, but there could be more passenger rakes hiding in boxes.

 

The V2 I made in the top picture has now been sold, though I don't think I'll be paid for it by cheque! 

 

 

Another beautifully-observed goods train, getting the road from the Down slow to the Down fast. The loco would appear to be an unaltered Heljan O2/3. When the full LNER running day commences tomorrow, I hope the motive power will be  more 'creative'. I'm sure there are enough locos to make it a bit more special than just a 'parade of RTR motive power'. 

 

I'm looking forward to it...............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Bucoops]

Tony, you might find this of interest. "Smashing" stuff !!

 

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-buffer-stop-tests-at-bradford-1945-online

 

Brit15

 

What a great film. I love that each wagon has been neatly marked to be on loan, and the backgroud is as interesting as the actual subject matter.