RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted August 22, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2018 One observation - if you want a very laborious livery, look no further than varnished teak - 16 coats? Gold leaf on the signwriting/transfers. Well worth it though The reason the GN went with varnished Teak was because it was quicker than painting and they didn't wait so long for new stock. If I remember correctly, painting meant a further 20 days in the paintshop, so the varnished Teak was considerably cheaper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecorbusier Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 The reason the GN went with varnished Teak was because it was quicker than painting and they didn't wait so long for new stock. If I remember correctly, painting meant a further 20 days in the paintshop, so the varnished Teak was considerably cheaper. that's interesting .... do tell more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted August 22, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2018 that's interesting .... do tell more. I'll try and find the tender document, essentially it is the many layers of primer and underoat that need to dry so they can be flatted down as the flat paint finish shows marks and gouges in the woodwork. The varnished teak on the other hand, doesn't show these marks and so there is less prep required. The GN was known for not spending money where it wasn't required, and the finish of the coaching stock is a perfect example. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted August 22, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2018 that's interesting .... do tell more. Ditto I don't know how close to "original" method the LNERCA method is but that's 12 coats, no more than 1 coat a day. Rubbed down periodically, with 2 days drying time before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon4470 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 My opinion with regard to liveries ( on the full size railway) is that they all look better when clean. Even straight forward plain black can look great when clean - especially when offset by some lining or numbers. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 The reason the GN went with varnished Teak was because it was quicker than painting and they didn't wait so long for new stock. If I remember correctly, painting meant a further 20 days in the paintshop, so the varnished Teak was considerably cheaper. Speaking of varnished teak, and the colours of the locos which hauled it, this morning I was filmed doing the Introduction to the DVD on the LNER weekend on LB, and my voice was recorded for the the appropriate voice-overs. The DVD, and my articles to go with it, will appear in the November issue of BRM, all proceeds going to CRUK. It's just over 20 minutes long, pithy and (though I try to remain modest about this, because I did most of the filming) beautifully put together - the latter down to the expertise of Warners' digital department - thanks Kyle and Suzanna. A sound track will be put behind it, some (appropriate) music, my comments and the very realistic mechanical noises of the trains running. Some conversations will be left in as well (not my expletives!) where there is footage of the team operating. I hadn't really taken much notice of the background sound, until I voiced-over footage of the K4 leaving the station on a running-in turn. There was the sound of 'chuffing', which must have been Graham Nicholas imitating a Gresley three-cylinder beat. Guess what has happened to that?! My footage of LB in its 1958 guise is also now at Warners, and will be put together for a future DVD. The team has also borrowed my camcorder, such is its excellence. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Manxcat Posted August 22, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2018 The example of HS 4000 Kestrel prompts me to post a video of my layout Fairhaven Road as it appeared at the Perth Show in 2016 exhibited on behalf of my club. One of my fellow club members is a friend of Derek Hoskins who is a prolific and excellent videographer with well over 1000 videos on YouTube. I understand Derek sometimes uses the moniker "HS 4000" and is a fan of Kestrel. When he noticed my model of Kestrel on a rake of Pullman cars in my fiddle yard he asked my friend if we could send it round the layout for him to video. We were more than happy to do so and in fact ran it out of sequence twice so that it could appear a second time in the same video. I am so glad we did so because Derek made the video of exclusively my layout. Kestrel is the first to appear at the start and later about 7 minutes into it. All of the locos are DCC operated and many are sound fitted, including Kestrel. Unfortunately the sound is very difficult to hear on the video because of the substantial background exhibition noise. At the show it was however easy to hear when standing beside the layout. I have to mention that June 2016 was well before I took Tony's advice and added loco lamps to all my steam locos. They are therefore devoid of headlamps in the video. Here is the link:- 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted August 22, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 22, 2018 Dare I say it ... but that is a bit naughty as you well know The development of BR branding was nothing if not fully coordinated across absolutely everything (the very essence of integrity) ...... they even developed a new type face In its own way it was as significant as the LNER's adoption of Gill Sans. There was also a BR design council that made comments on the design of rolling stock etc. I think it had quite a good influence on several loco and MU designs. Hi Colin, The Swastika,or to give it its correct English name the Gammadion is actually a representation of the constellation of the plough in relation to the pole star at the time of the equinox and solstace's, that is when the sun enters the cusp the four cardinal points of the zodiac, Aries, Libra, Cancer and Capricorn. Hitler and those at the Thule Society nabbed it and it has been dismissed as a sign of evil ever since. Note for the PC brigade; None of the above makes me a NAZI. Gibbo. It also appeared on brass weights used in the Ashanti area of what is now Ghana, that were used for weighing gold dust. My late father had a very large collection of these and each village had it's own designs but there were swastikas among the collection which was collected in the late 1930's. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted August 22, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 22, 2018 Speaking of varnished teak, and the colours of the locos which hauled it, this morning I was filmed doing the Introduction to the DVD on the LNER weekend on LB, and my voice was recorded for the the appropriate voice-overs. The DVD, and my articles to go with it, will appear in the November issue of BRM, all proceeds going to CRUK. It's just over 20 minutes long, pithy and (though I try to remain modest about this, because I did most of the filming) beautifully put together - the latter down to the expertise of Warners' digital department - thanks Kyle and Suzanna. A sound track will be put behind it, some (appropriate) music, my comments and the very realistic mechanical noises of the trains running. Some conversations will be left in as well (not my expletives!) where there is footage of the team operating. I hadn't really taken much notice of the background sound, until I voiced-over footage of the K4 leaving the station on a running-in turn. There was the sound of 'chuffing', which must have been Graham Nicholas imitating a Gresley three-cylinder beat. Guess what has happened to that?! My footage of LB in its 1958 guise is also now at Warners, and will be put together for a future DVD. The team has also borrowed my camcorder, such is its excellence. Is Clive M going to choose the music????? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecorbusier Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 Someone say Kestrel 065a.jpg Parent and 3 chicks. Taken a few years ago, the tree no longer stands. kes 2.jpg My second attempt at scratchbuilding circa 1984. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 But, on the other hand, it is a diesel and (sorry Clive), in my opinion no diesel will ever be as easy on the eye as the most grimy, run-down, work-stained steam locomotive. I don't find steam locomotives particularly easy on the eye. They don't really have much aesthetic design, style or appeal, and are very basic, warty and functional. A boiler on frames with a funnel plonked on top, spaghetti hanging off the wheels to make them turn, and mostly towing a cart load of dirty fuel that some poor blighter has to shovel forward and in to a fireplace. But then there are some poor looking diesels, like the Fell, although, in general, they and electric locos do seem to have a more developed sense of style. Just my opinion. G 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted August 22, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 22, 2018 55 022 Bytham 5 10 07 01.jpg If there was ever a loco that really did look like a big blue blob - it was a d*lt*c. The deep bodysides just didn't work with a single colour. I get the corporate image thing of British Rail, but plain blue for the locos looked quite drab. It was only after the addition of the large logo and wrap-round yellow ends with black windows that it became stylish. BTW, I consider the double arrow as one of the greatest corporate logos ever. As for modern liveries (and as a confirmed modern image reasonably current day modeller), I agree that some are quite garish. Cross Country has to be one of the better ones. Cheers, Mick 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chamby Posted August 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 23, 2018 (edited) If there was ever a loco that really did look like a big blue blob - it was a d*lt*c. The deep bodysides just didn't work with a single colour. I get the corporate image thing of British Rail, but plain blue for the locos looked quite drab. It was only after the addition of the large logo and wrap-round yellow ends with black windows that it became stylish. BTW, I consider the double arrow as one of the greatest corporate logos ever. As for modern liveries (and as a confirmed modern image reasonably current day modeller), I agree that some are quite garish. Cross Country has to be one of the better ones. xc3.jpg Cheers, Mick An interesting observation. The large logo livery did work for some loco’s, particularly the Class 50 in my book. But this was also probably the first livery where the logo/paint scheme started to predominate over the loco itself, rather than the other way around. Nowadays it seems to be the norm for the corporate logo to be dominant and the locomotive underneath it is purely coincidental. And that sums things up for me about the modern railway scene... corporate identity now overrides the locomotives character every time. A few years ago, when I commuted daily into central London between Twyford and Paddington, FGW introduced their overall purple scheme with the wiggly pink lines on the side. The commuters all joked how it represented how the timetable changes introduced at the same time had become disorganised and in disarray, with broken connections and customer service generally unravelling! Phil. Edited August 23, 2018 by Chamby 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecorbusier Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Nowadays it seems to be the norm for the corporate logo to be dominant and the locomotive underneath it is purely coincidental. And that sums things up for me about the modern railway scene... corporate identity now overrides the locomotives character every time. In the light of this, I wonder if the new GWR livery marks a change of direction .... or is it simply an outlier? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 I get the corporate image thing of British Rail, but plain blue for the locos looked quite drab. It was only after the addition of the large logo and wrap-round yellow ends with black windows that it became stylish. Hear, hear! I find plain BR blue to be the very worst example of a livery that I have ever seen in my over forty year trainspotting career spanning four continents. I know that money was tight back in the sixties and plain green could look pretty drab at times but to my mind, the "run down" of the railways is exemplified by 'plain blue'. It's only saving grace is that it covered some interesting and wonderful sounding machines. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Geep7 Posted August 23, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2018 In the light of this, I wonder if the new GWR livery marks a change of direction .... or is it simply an outlier? The new GWR livery is something of an enigma to me. In bright, glorious sunshine, at the right angle it looks beautiful. In any other conditions, it just looks drab and dull, and almost black in colour. It's an incredibly difficult livery to photograph, as it just seems to suck up any light hitting it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted August 23, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2018 Is Clive M going to choose the music????? FFS Noooooo. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted August 23, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2018 FFS Noooooo. Mike. Were they a punk band ? I'm sure I've a got a T shirt with their name on.... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Being a pure and virtuous sort of chap, I assume that 'FFS' is the hull designation symbol for a stealth frigate... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 this morning I was filmed doing the Introduction to the DVD on the LNER weekend on LB I hadn't really taken much notice of the background sound, until I voiced-over footage of the K4 leaving the station on a running-in turn. There was the sound of 'chuffing', which must have been Graham Nicholas imitating a Gresley three-cylinder beat. Guess what has happened to that?! Cutting room floor again ... at least the number of 'chuffs' was synchronised to the revolution of the wheels unlike some sound systems I could mention Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 Cutting room floor again ... at least the number of 'chuffs' was synchronised to the revolution of the wheels unlike some sound systems I could mention I'm afraid so Graham, though the moving footage remains............ I've never been convinced of any 'synthetic' sound on model railways, especially steam-sound; whether this be produced electronically or by the mouth. I suppose if the movements were synchronised (exactly) with a real steam recording, with the sound not coming from the tender (how daft is that to have the 'puffing' coming from a tender?) but from speakers strategically placed under the baseboards (big speakers), then it might work. Mike Cole did something like this, but with diesels. I have to say, the real, mechanical noise of the actual locos and trains being filmed on LB is most impressive. A couple of 'grinders' will have their 'whirr-whirring' replaced by music, but I think a fair bit of the actual sound will be left in. The whole thing should be done by early next week, and I'll get copies - to be given to each member of the team, prior to its appearance in BRM. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tony Wright Posted August 23, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 23, 2018 As part of on-going bartering, I've taken some pictures of Ian Wilson's O Gauge ironstone line he's constructing. The cottages in the foreground of the second picture are the work of the late Allan Downes. His style is instantly-recognisable! 21 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted August 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 23, 2018 Is Clive M going to choose the music????? I am sure there is something suitable written by someone like Elgar. A nice gentle string and wind movement as the train of mineral wagons passes by with the kettle drums and brass crescendo timed to come in as the train derails. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecorbusier Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 The cottages in the foreground of the second picture are the work of the late Allan Downes. His style is instantly-recognisable! That is an interesting observation. For those obsessed with prototypical accuracy it hints that the production of a fine scale model is more about Art than science perhaps? A fine oil painting rather than a photograph .... though that of course is another can of worms as I definitely subscribe to the view that at its best Photography is also an art form of great distinction ..... ho hum. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 The cottages in the foreground of the second picture are the work of the late Allan Downes. His style is instantly-recognisable! Yes, they are certainly very familiar. But are they based on real buildings from the area modelled? G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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