Wright writes.....

[thegreenhowards]

Tony,

 

You show me yours...and I’ll show you mine! Here’s a video of my Elizabethan rake on Gresley Jn

 

 

I hope you’re a year out in saying that the buffet was gone from 1957. I think the full rake was repainted for the Summer 1957 season and the buffet and SK with LRR were moved for the 1958 season. I think I got that from the Banks and Carter book. The rake above is the 1957 formation with special SK (coach 7) and  buffet (coach 8).

 

Andy

Edited March 27, 2020 by thegreenhowards
Typo

[jamie92208]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

When Dave Lewis and I were making the first 'Elizabethan' sets, we arranged the etched sheets to have one each of the one-off cars on them. From memory, I think we got eight carriages (16 sides) on a sheet. So, there was one BG, one FK (with ladies' retiring room), one RF, one RSO and four SKs. Guess what? The one-offs sold like mad, but the much-more-numerous SKs hardly moved. Folk weren't building the train! They liked the one-offs. In the end the artwork was altered to give two each of the singular ones - there were more than enough half sheets of SKs left!

 

 

 

Funnily enough exactly the same happenned with the NBR 6 wheelers that a friend and I produced etches for.  The family saloon and the first sold very well even though each of the 5 car rakes they ran in only had one 1st and 2 each if the Br3rd and all 3rd.

 

Jamie

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

You show me yours...and I’ll show you mine! Here’s a video of my Elizabethan rake on Gresley Jn

 

 

I hope you’re a year out is saying that the buffet was gone from 1957. I think the full rake was repainted for the Summer 1957 season and the buffet and SK with LRR were moved for the 1958 season. I think I got that from the Banks and Carter book. The rake above is the 1957 formation with special SK (coach 7) and  buffet (coach 8).

 

Andy

Thanks Andy,

 

You're right with the date for the 'Lizzie'. 1958 saw the rake reduced to ten cars with the Buffet removed (and the special SK replaced with a standard one). 

 

Interestingly, you've got your FK with the ladies' retiring room at the north end. Most pictures I have show it at the south end, next to the BG. 

 

Have you checked the A4? According to my records, 60013 never worked the 'Lizzie' in 1957. The A4s for that year on the non-stop were 60009, 60012, 60015, 60017, 60022, 60025 and 60027.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Tony Wright
to clarify a point

[Atso]

Well I can't  match the 'Lizzy', but I can offer a part complete N gauge Gresley 58'6" Buffet.

 

[Headstock]

6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I think this in a different class to my conversions, Andrew.

 

I'm glad I was the inspiration, and what you've just shown us is surely that: inspirational!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Good evening Tony,

 

I also employ the 'Wright' coupling system on all my gangway carriages, neat, simple and unobtrusive, it has never let me down in over twenty years.

[robertcwp]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

Later on, the other types were produced (including the SK with ladies' retiring room and the Buffet - not in the 'Lizzie' from 1957). 

 

 

 

 

The buffet cars were in the sets in 1957, the only year in which they ran in the train in maroon. 1957 was also the final year in which the Aberdeen portion was in the train both ways and included a PV Thompson all second. From 1958, the buffet disappeared and both carriages in the Aberdeen portion of the down train became BR Standards. The equivalent stock in the up train only worked from Edinburgh, having arrived there on a different service the previous day. This meant that the two carriages at the north end changed on a daily basis. The next-but-one Gresley Observer should have an article from me on the stock of the non-stop.

[45568]

In the spirit of ' what have you done in lockdown', my wife returned, (just in time), from a UK holiday last Sunday. We are now in 14 days self-isolation.

Among other things she returned with were two Replica LMS open third coaches, Ebay purchases sent to a friends UK address.

The first was in reasonable condition, and was titivated into BR finish. Interior seats and tables painted, glazing refreshed, roof resprayed , BR lining and numbers applied and a gloss finish to the bodywork.

The second was in poorer condition, being 'varnished' with a 2" brush it seemed. So into the caustic bath for a full strip back, and then with some cutting and shutting, using the brake end parts from an old Mainline brake second, a dia. 1916 open Brake Second was the result. Seating unit cut/shut to correct formation and painted.

An ideal coach for my LMR excursion set using the Replica open thirds. Lining transfers are Railtec, and absolutely superb, no carrier film whatsoever. Numbering, lettering and no smoking signs are Modelmaster. Body is Tamiya TS-11 maroon, roof is TS-4 German grey, and TS-13 clear varnish to finish.

Fortunately I have a large stockpile of 'projects' to work on, not to mention tracklaying and scenery in the layout shed when the weather cools down below 30+C!

Stay safe and sane everyone,

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Andy,

 

You're right with the date for the 'Lizzie'. 1958 saw the rake reduced to ten cars with the Buffet removed (and the special SK replaced with a standard one). 

 

Interestingly, you've got your FK with the ladies' retiring room at the north end. Most pictures I have show it at the south end, next to the BG. 

 

Have you checked the A4? According to my records, 60013 never worked the 'Lizzie' in 1957. The A4s for that year on the non-stop were 60009, 60012, 60015, 60017, 60022, 60025 and 60027.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Tony,

 

Mine is the up service. The FK-LRR is at the south end next to the BG - coach number 2. The SK-LRR is coach number 7 towards the north end. When the train was shortened, this SK-LRR was lost to the Heart of Midlothian and the Thompson SK in the Aberdeen portion took its place.

 

I have never managed to track down a copy of ‘What’s on the Lizzie’ so I’m ignorant about what worked in each year. I’m building No.9 at the moment, so when that’s complete it can take 13’s place. Silver Fox is also planned at some stage, but I will never have 60022 (or 60103) - too much of a cliche!

 

Andy

[Tony Wright]

7 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

Mine is the up service. The FK-LRR is at the south end next to the BG - coach number 2. The SK-LRR is coach number 7 towards the north end. When the train was shortened, this SK-LRR was lost to the Heart of Midlothian and the Thompson SK in the Aberdeen portion took its place.

 

I have never managed to track down a copy of ‘What’s on the Lizzie’ so I’m ignorant about what worked in each year. I’m building No.9 at the moment, so when that’s complete it can take 13’s place. Silver Fox is also planned at some stage, but I will never have 60022 (or 60103) - too much of a cliche!

 

Andy

Thanks Andy,

 

My comment was slightly ambiguous. I should have made it clearer that the ladies' only compartment was at the north end of the FK. More pictures I've found show it to be at the south end of the FK, next to the BG, with the white windows on the west side. 

 

 

As here. This is a Saturday working in 1958, with the train strengthened at the north end (including a couple of cars in carmine/cream). On this occasion, the BG is a Mk.1. Note, correctly, the train headboard reversed. 

 

But it could be the other way round, as yours is. Again, this is a Saturday working, in 1960 (still with one carmine/cream car). Instead of a BG, we have a Mk.1 BSK (or BSO?). 

 

The northbound working on the same day as the previous picture (the 28th of August), at York. The headboard is incorrectly displayed. Note the two strengtheners; an end-door Gresley and a Mk.1 SK. 

 

The train engines worked back on the Sunday, but the stock on the Lord's day was a real mixture, not the normal rakes (which, presumably, were being cleaned/serviced?).

 

One finds many pictures of the 'Lizzie' taken on Saturdays. Workdays back then were just that; weekdays.  

 

Please, all, observe copyright restrictions.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

 

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

8 hours ago, 45568 said:

In the spirit of ' what have you done in lockdown', my wife returned, (just in time), from a UK holiday last Sunday. We are now in 14 days self-isolation.

Among other things she returned with were two Replica LMS open third coaches, Ebay purchases sent to a friends UK address.

The first was in reasonable condition, and was titivated into BR finish. Interior seats and tables painted, glazing refreshed, roof resprayed , BR lining and numbers applied and a gloss finish to the bodywork.

The second was in poorer condition, being 'varnished' with a 2" brush it seemed. So into the caustic bath for a full strip back, and then with some cutting and shutting, using the brake end parts from an old Mainline brake second, a dia. 1916 open Brake Second was the result. Seating unit cut/shut to correct formation and painted.

An ideal coach for my LMR excursion set using the Replica open thirds. Lining transfers are Railtec, and absolutely superb, no carrier film whatsoever. Numbering, lettering and no smoking signs are Modelmaster. Body is Tamiya TS-11 maroon, roof is TS-4 German grey, and TS-13 clear varnish to finish.

Fortunately I have a large stockpile of 'projects' to work on, not to mention tracklaying and scenery in the layout shed when the weather cools down below 30+C!

Stay safe and sane everyone,

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

This is splendid work Peter,

 

Thanks for showing us.

 

It illustrates what can be done with RTR carriages with a bit of thought, work and ingenuity.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[micklner]

Couple of mine .

 

Thompson's using  Southern Pride and Comet sides on a re worked Bachmann bases.

Gresley MJT sides on a current Hornby base. The Hornby's was far more fiddly due to narrowing the Chassis.

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by micklner

[thegreenhowards]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

My comment was slightly ambiguous. I should have made it clearer that the ladies' only compartment was at the north end of the FK. More pictures I've found show it to be at the south end of the FK, next to the BG, with the white windows on the west side. 

Tony,

 

Sorry about the confusion. I did think 'how did he miss that bl...y obvious coach' - now I understand!

 

My general principal on such things is that if it states it should be a certain way round in the carriage workings then I follow it. This is often true for catering cars - Kitchen South End or similar. Otherwise I assume it was random. I guess for the Lizzie, once it was marshalled a particular way round, it stayed like that for a long period even if there was no plan as such. 

 

Anyway, I'm glad you've found some counter examples as I use 'Wright' couplings on this rake, so turning it round would mean remaking them. Now if only I used tension locks...…………..

 

Andy

[jacko]

I have a brief question regarding 'white' windows. - Were they really as white as they appear on models and what was used to whiten them? For some reason the pure white windows look wrong to me.  My own memories of steam railways are restricted to the coal wagons and tankies of our nearby pit. I don't recall travelling by rail until BR blue.

 

Graeme

[Tony Wright]

13 minutes ago, jacko said:

I have a brief question regarding 'white' windows. - Were they really as white as they appear on models and what was used to whiten them? For some reason the pure white windows look wrong to me.  My own memories of steam railways are restricted to the coal wagons and tankies of our nearby pit. I don't recall travelling by rail until BR blue.

 

Graeme

Good morning Graeme,

 

They really were 'white'. 

 

On the Isinglass drawings they're described as 'opaque', which is really not true (if something is opaque, no light comes through it). Light passes through but nothing can be seen through it (which is sort of opaque, I suppose). 

 

It was used for lavatory windows and on catering stock on LNER vehicles. It was even used on the corridor 'ovals' of the Thompson stock, though there were no ventilators in these.

 

I represent the effect on my models by painting the inside of the glazing with white enamel paint. And yes, the light comes through. 

 

 

In this example (produced by the methods described yesterday), I've used pure white paint. 

 

 

Occasionally, I'll use an 'off-white' to represent greater age/weathering. The top lights should be clear. 

 

How the real glass was produced, I have no idea. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Hroth]

2 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

On the Isinglass drawings they're described as 'opaque', which is really not true (if something is opaque, no light comes through it). Light passes through but nothing can be seen through it (which is sort of opaque, I suppose). 

 

More "translucent" then.

 

3 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

How the real glass was produced, I have no idea. 

 

I think its the sort of glass called "opal flashed", a sheet of ordinary glass with at least one side covered with a thin layer of whitened glass.  Beyond that description...

[jacko]

Thanks for the info.  I think it will be worthwhile replacing the solid white plastic with something (as you say) translucent. Maybe white paper or simply white paint as per Tony's example.  

 

Graeme

[jwealleans]

LNER windows were conspicuously whiter than those of other companies.   Have a look at this selection of colour pictures for examples.

[jacko]

Great Photos. I'll need to find some west coast equivalents though 

 

Graeme

[Headstock]

The white windows in LNER carriages got progressively more opaque over time. Examples from the twenties are quite transparent, those fitted to the streamliners, a decade later, were as white as Daz. It would be a mistake to think that the white windows in LNER carriages were typically transparent. On the other hand, Maunsell carriages never carried opaque white windows, it hasn't stopped Hornby fitting them though.

 

A Thompson example, about as transparent as a brick.

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Headstock
add space. Display link for those who won't click.

[lee74clarke]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Andy,

 

My comment was slightly ambiguous. I should have made it clearer that the ladies' only compartment was at the north end of the FK. More pictures I've found show it to be at the south end of the FK, next to the BG, with the white windows on the west side. 

 

 

As here. This is a Saturday working in 1958, with the train strengthened at the north end (including a couple of cars in carmine/cream). On this occasion, the BG is a Mk.1. Note, correctly, the train headboard reversed. 

 

But it could be the other way round, as yours is. Again, this is a Saturday working, in 1960 (still with one carmine/cream car). Instead of a BG, we have a Mk.1 BSK (or BSO?). 

 

The northbound working on the same day as the previous picture (the 28th of August), at York. The headboard is incorrectly displayed. Note the two strengtheners; an end-door Gresley and a Mk.1 SK. 

 

The train engines worked back on the Sunday, but the stock on the Lord's day was a real mixture, not the normal rakes (which, presumably, were being cleaned/serviced?).

 

One finds many pictures of the 'Lizzie' taken on Saturdays. Workdays back then were just that; weekdays.  

 

Please, all, observe copyright restrictions.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

 

 

 

 

Good Morning Tony,

 

A couple of questions, if I may please? What was the correct position of headboards on A4's? Or, did the position depend on the service? Were different colour headboards, of the same named train, simply from different periods?

Also, seeing your Master Cutler rake, with roof boards on the K-type Pullman cars, did the roof boards get used on the later MK1 Pullman cars? I can't recall seeing any photographs of the Metro Cammell cars with them on.

Lastly, did the colours of the roof boards depend on era? Taking the Master Cutler as an example, I have seen various coloured versions, but never understood the reasons. Maybe I overthink these things, perhaps it was whatever paint was kicking about at the time!

 

Best Regards,

Lee

 

 

[Headstock]

2 hours ago, lee74clarke said:

Good Morning Tony,

 

A couple of questions, if I may please? What was the correct position of headboards on A4's? Or, did the position depend on the service? Were different colour headboards, of the same named train, simply from different periods?

Also, seeing your Master Cutler rake, with roof boards on the K-type Pullman cars, did the roof boards get used on the later MK1 Pullman cars? I can't recall seeing any photographs of the Metro Cammell cars with them on.

Lastly, did the colours of the roof boards depend on era? Taking the Master Cutler as an example, I have seen various coloured versions, but never understood the reasons. Maybe I overthink these things, perhaps it was whatever paint was kicking about at the time!

 

Best Regards,

Lee

 

 

 

The normal position was as in the photographs.

 

MK1 Pullman's didn't have roof mounted brackets for destination boards. On MK1's, the mounting board brackets were below the cornice, they would have required a different size of destination board to that on the 'K' type, if thy were carried.

 

The proper Master Cutler was a business man's train that ran between Marylebone and Sheffield on the London extension of the ex Great Central Railway. There were three recorded colours of destination boards, between the naming of the train in 1947 and the axing of the title in 1958. After the LM region took over control of the line from the ER, the trains title was transferred to a new Pullman service running from KX to Sheffield via the ECML. The proper service continued to run without name for some time, until finally axed by the LMR.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Headstock
add capitol letter.

[jamie92208]

As to translucent or frosted windows. I've often used MEK on the inside of the glazing material to produce frosted windows. I can't speak for later LMS stock but the Midland ones don't tend to show bright white in photos.

 

Jamie

Edited March 27, 2020 by jamie92208

[jacko]

I've found that lightly brushing one side with a fibreglass pen gives clear plastic a nice frosted effect. 

 

Graeme

[landscapes]

2 hours ago, lee74clarke said:

Good Morning Tony,

 

A couple of questions, if I may please? What was the correct position of headboards on A4's? Or, did the position depend on the service? Were different colour headboards, of the same named train, simply from different periods?

Also, seeing your Master Cutler rake, with roof boards on the K-type Pullman cars, did the roof boards get used on the later MK1 Pullman cars? I can't recall seeing any photographs of the Metro Cammell cars with them on.

Lastly, did the colours of the roof boards depend on era? Taking the Master Cutler as an example, I have seen various coloured versions, but never understood the reasons. Maybe I overthink these things, perhaps it was whatever paint was kicking about at the time!

 

Best Regards,

Lee

 

 

Hi Lee

 

Regarding Locomotive Headboard colours on the ECML I believe in most cases there were two different shades of blue.

 

From what I have read it seemed that the Scottish Region tended to use Headboards with a light blue background and LNER used dark blue but also there were instances where Red was sometimes used on inter regional trains like The Waverley & Thames Clyde Express to mention two.

 

Some headboards may have had a Black background as Well but I am not 100% on this.

 

I am sure there are members out there with a much better knowledge of this subject who may be able to advise.

 

Regards

 

David

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, lee74clarke said:

Good Morning Tony,

 

A couple of questions, if I may please? What was the correct position of headboards on A4's? Or, did the position depend on the service? Were different colour headboards, of the same named train, simply from different periods?

Also, seeing your Master Cutler rake, with roof boards on the K-type Pullman cars, did the roof boards get used on the later MK1 Pullman cars? I can't recall seeing any photographs of the Metro Cammell cars with them on.

Lastly, did the colours of the roof boards depend on era? Taking the Master Cutler as an example, I have seen various coloured versions, but never understood the reasons. Maybe I overthink these things, perhaps it was whatever paint was kicking about at the time!

 

Best Regards,

Lee

 

 

Good afternoon Lee,

 

Firstly, thanks for dropping the info' through the door......

 

Headboard positions? I think it was dependent on the athleticism of the fireman, particular with regard to the A4s. Most just opted for putting the board on the middle, lower bracket.

 

Background colours? As far as I know, there were three in BR days on the ECML; light blue (Scottish Region), dark blue (Eastern Region) and black. They seem to be used indiscriminately. 

 

The MK.1 Pullman cars carried no boards. The train's name was carried on two small boards, one each side, over the guard's door on the brakes (which were the originals, no Mk.1 Pullman brakes ever being built. The background to these boards, and the roof-mounted boards on the 'K' cars was umber, and the lettering cream. Ian Wilson does a full range. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.