mark axlecounter Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Hi Mike hope all is well. Every time I look on here I see the joys of this hobby how real they look and how I wish i could model to these standards. well done mike keep up the good work bud Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 HOOOOoooooooooooooooooo Rayyyyyyyyyyyyy Guys, its Saturday, Hopefully Mike will have some more truly inspirational pics for us all later. All the best Mike, and how about a Hoover or a Peak on a Parcels! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PeterBB Posted May 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2015 Mike, Really impressed with the pictures and the detailing on Dent and like others the 'odd' wagon and locomotive 'stored' on the layout make it. Cheers, Peter PS At our open events Andy does that as well and it makes things look so much better. PBB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 Hi Mike hope all is well. Every time I look on here I see the joys of this hobby how real they look and how I wish i could model to these standards. well done mike keep up the good work bud Mark Hi Mark, Thanks mate, nice to hear from you between 12":1ft duties so you keep up the good work too! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 HOOOOoooooooooooooooooo Rayyyyyyyyyyyyy Guys, its Saturday, Hopefully Mike will have some more truly inspirational pics for us all later. All the best Mike, and how about a Hoover or a Peak on a Parcels! Hi Andy Sorry mate it won't be today, I've just got back from the Derby show held in the 'Roundhouse'. It was strange walking through the building I worked in 40+ years ago which apart from cosmetic restoration the fabric looked untouched. Show was quite good with excellent trade support but there was no 'big' layout which is my benchmark. I don't have a 'Hoover' of my own, the wife has several and almost had all makes over the years, I'm sure she sits listening to the motor when I'm out! Oh sorry do you mean a Class 50, my mistake Here are a couple of shots inside the 'Roundhouse'. On nightshift I attained a crane operators licence and did just that on the overhead crane in the photos. Here are a couple of 'O' gauge models of the types of crane we used to overhaul in the 'Roundhouse' back in the day. Brilliant models by Bill Lee. Outside the 'Roundhouse' the works tower housed the Works Manager's office, the glazed door on the first floor was once a direct access from the footbridge from platform 1 on the station. Will do the Peak tomorrow mate. 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 Mike, Really impressed with the pictures and the detailing on Dent and like others the 'odd' wagon and locomotive 'stored' on the layout make it. Cheers, Peter PS At our open events Andy does that as well and it makes things look so much better. PBB Hi Peter, Thanks for that, yes I like to do a little stage setting it just alters the perspective every week or two. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Great Pics Mike, I hope to go tomorrow and will enjoy it just as much. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 Hi guys, Just chilling out and thinking about 1950's style 45t tank wagon liveries, I don't recall many that were anything but black but if anyone can advise I would appreciate the info as I want to repaint quite a few of my more garish items to suit the period, cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark axlecounter Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Great pics buddy looks like you had a good day. I have been doing a bit of modification work on a black 5. Mark 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted May 9, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 9, 2015 Hi guys, Just chilling out and thinking about 1950's style 45t tank wagon liveries, I don't recall many that were anything but black but if anyone can advise I would appreciate the info as I want to repaint quite a few of my more garish items to suit the period, cheers. Hi Mike 45 ton GLW tank wagons came into service in the 1960s , about 63-64 time. Early ones were vacuum braked so were not TTAs but the Bachy TTA has the same body, you just need to do some changes to the undergubbins. I haven't bothered. Colours of tank wagons. Class A, grey body with a red stripe along the solbar. Class A tanks carry liquids with a low flash point. Petrol, paraffin etc. most of these are clean fluids. They need a barrier wagon fore and aft, even when empty as the tank will be full of explosive fumes. Class B black body, Class B tanks carried liquids with a high flash point. Fuel oil (diesel), bitumen etc., these were normally dirty fluids. They do not need a barrier wagon. Diesel is a clean fluid so was allowed to be carried in class A wagons. It was not carried in class A wagons of earlier designs. Until the 1960s class A fluids were unloaded by syphoning out from the top. The valves in use before the 60s were not considered good enough to prevent leakage. Class B tanks were always unloaded from the bottom despite the valves as they were unlikely to go bang. With the improvement in the valves it meant that bottom discharge was possible. Diesel unloading was bottom discharge and being it was clean fluid it was allowed to be carried in class A tanks despite it being a class B liquid. Crude oil is the opposite from diesel it is a dirty fluid and has a low flash point. It is always carried in class A tanks and these are normally specific for this duty due to the tanks not being suitable for clean liquids after carrying crude. In the 1950s most oil companies used unfitted wagons of various capacities and age. Some wagons built in the 1900s were still in service in the 1960s. Same rules applied to the liveries for Class A and Class B fluids. Some post war Class A wagons received silver tanks not grey ones. Esso was the first to speed up its oil deliveries with its 35ton GLW tank wagons, as in the Airfix/Dapol kit, this happened in the mid to late 1950s. Some other companies operated these wagons but not the biggest, Shell-BP. There was a Class A tank version which had a slightly longer tank due to most Class A oils being less dense, therefore greater volume per ton. I know some modellers who have made the tank longer but many of us could get away with just painting it grey and adding some red to the solbars. I hope this is helpful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 Great pics buddy looks like you had a good day. I have been doing a bit of modification work on a black 5. Mark Hi Mark, Does that mean you don't need your Caprotti version any more, I know a good home for it Hehehe 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 Hi Mike 45 ton GLW tank wagons came into service in the 1960s , about 63-64 time. Early ones were vacuum braked so were not TTAs but the Bachy TTA has the same body, you just need to do some changes to the undergubbins. I haven't bothered. Colours of tank wagons. Class A, grey body with a red stripe along the solbar. Class A tanks carry liquids with a low flash point. Petrol, paraffin etc. most of these are clean fluids. They need a barrier wagon fore and aft, even when empty as the tank will be full of explosive fumes. Class B black body, Class B tanks carried liquids with a high flash point. Fuel oil (diesel), bitumen etc., these were normally dirty fluids. They do not need a barrier wagon. Diesel is a clean fluid so was allowed to be carried in class A wagons. It was not carried in class A wagons of earlier designs. Until the 1960s class A fluids were unloaded by syphoning out from the top. The valves in use before the 60s were not considered good enough to prevent leakage. Class B tanks were always unloaded from the bottom despite the valves as they were unlikely to go bang. With the improvement in the valves it meant that bottom discharge was possible. Diesel unloading was bottom discharge and being it was clean fluid it was allowed to be carried in class A tanks despite it being a class B liquid. Crude oil is the opposite from diesel it is a dirty fluid and has a low flash point. It is always carried in class A tanks and these are normally specific for this duty due to the tanks not being suitable for clean liquids after carrying crude. In the 1950s most oil companies used unfitted wagons of various capacities and age. Some wagons built in the 1900s were still in service in the 1960s. Same rules applied to the liveries for Class A and Class B fluids. Some post war Class A wagons received silver tanks not grey ones. Esso was the first to speed up its oil deliveries with its 35ton GLW tank wagons, as in the Airfix/Dapol kit, this happened in the mid to late 1950s. Some other companies operated these wagons but not the biggest, Shell-BP. There was a Class A tank version which had a slightly longer tank due to most Class A oils being less dense, therefore greater volume per ton. I know some modellers who have made the tank longer but many of us could get away with just painting it grey and adding some red to the solbars. I hope this is helpful. Hi Clive, Oh dear I think I've got my tanks mixed up! I have loads of the smaller tanks (would they be 35t ?) of generally Mainline and Bachmann origin with legends such as 'Esso' 'Shell' 'BP' 'Crossfield' 'ICI' etc. all in various liveries but unsure which are correct for the period. I don't mind if I have to re-livery all of them to a single brand but even the Esso types have some vary varied livery styles. This all depends entirely on the ability to purchase transfers of course. Thanks for the info it is very enlightening. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trains12 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) Hi Mike Have you seen our two books on tank wagons by my Cheona Publications. No 14 in Railways in profile British Railways Private owner Tank Wagons By R Tourret has some nice shots some in colour showing the wagons. It is out of print now but there are a few on E.Bay at present. Also in ModernRailways in Profile series vol.3 (Still in Print can send you a copy) shows the modern wagons all in colour. Keep up the great work. Peter. Edited May 10, 2015 by trains12 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted May 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 10, 2015 Hi Clive, Oh dear I think I've got my tanks mixed up! I have loads of the smaller tanks (would they be 35t ?) of generally Mainline and Bachmann origin with legends such as 'Esso' 'Shell' 'BP' 'Crossfield' 'ICI' etc. all in various liveries but unsure which are correct for the period. I don't mind if I have to re-livery all of them to a single brand but even the Esso types have some vary varied livery styles. This all depends entirely on the ability to purchase transfers of course. Thanks for the info it is very enlightening. Hi Mike Are they like these http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/smbptank , http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/smbpanchor and these http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essounfit then they are the more common types seen in the 1950s and could have a payload of 10, 12 or 14 ton, on a short wheelbase or 20 ton on a long wheelbase frame? Unfitted tank wagons tended not to worked in block trains except the first trip from refinery to the marshalling yard or the last trip back to be refilled. These are the 35 ton GLW http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essoatankwagonvb and http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essobtankwagonvb These are the 45 ton GLW (TTAs) http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bpoepikote, http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/sukoclassbtta1 and http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essopickeringa Paul Bartlett's site has loads more tank wagons in various company liveries. Here are some of my own unfitted Shell-BP tank wagons http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61979-hanging-hill/?p=812931 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark axlecounter Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Hi Mark, Does that mean you don't need your Caprotti version any more, I know a good home for it Hehehe I could build another one for you. I have been doing a Jason smoke box mod on it Mark 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 Hi Mike Have you seen our two books on tank wagons by my Cheona Publications. No 14 in Railways in profile British Railways Private owner Tank Wagons By R Tourret has some nice shots some in colour showing the wagons. It is out of print now but there are a few on E.Bay at present. Also in ModernRailways in Profile series vol.3 (Still in Print can send you a copy) shows the modern wagons all in colour. Keep up the great work. Peter. Hi Peter, Really nice to hear from you, hope all is well. I have just looked on ebay and there is one on sale with an 8 day wait! Just my luck eh. The Modern Railways may be outside my era as I'm strictly to the end of steam, (unless I get visitors pressurising me to run funny coloured diesels ) if it is I will certainly have a copy mate. As an aside would you be interested in publishing my 'Ultimate Allocations' listings, the most comprehensive and easy to use version out there - so I have been told by many purchasers. If so send me a PM if not no problem mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) Hi Mike Are they like these http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/smbptank , http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/smbpanchor and these http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essounfit then they are the more common types seen in the 1950s and could have a payload of 10, 12 or 14 ton, on a short wheelbase or 20 ton on a long wheelbase frame? Unfitted tank wagons tended not to worked in block trains except the first trip from refinery to the marshalling yard or the last trip back to be refilled. These are the 35 ton GLW http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essoatankwagonvb and http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essobtankwagonvb These are the 45 ton GLW (TTAs) http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bpoepikote, http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/sukoclassbtta1 and http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essopickeringa Paul Bartlett's site has loads more tank wagons in various company liveries. Here are some of my own unfitted Shell-BP tank wagons http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61979-hanging-hill/?p=812931 Hi Clive, Yes those in the first links are the types so Brownie points go to you for that, but your Brownie points are immediately recalled with the advice re: block trains, I'm not a happy bunny I'll go through that site - sorry : Brilliant site! to see what was around but it surprised me even to see a 'Royal Daylight' tank so that in itself is a good omen. Meant to say, you are quite prolific at scratchbuilding I have to say, I don't really have enough patience as I still only have one Anhydrite wagon done! Cheers Clive. Edited May 10, 2015 by mike61680 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 I could build another one for you. I have been doing a Jason smoke box mod on it Mark I may just consider that mate, is it any Hornby Black 5 for a donor? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark axlecounter Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Yes it is and get a caprotti motion from djh they can supply the parts for around £20 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted May 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 10, 2015 Hi Clive, Yes those in the first links are the types so Brownie points go to you for that, but your Brownie points are immediately recalled with the advice re: block trains, I'm not a happy bunny I'll go through that site - sorry : Brilliant site! to see what was around but it surprised me even to see a 'Royal Daylight' tank so that in itself is a good omen. Meant to say, you are quite prolific at scratchbuilding I have to say, I don't really have enough patience as I still only have one Anhydrite wagon done! Cheers Clive. Hi Mike In days gone by the oil companies had a lot of small distribution outlets so the wagons were split up and trundled off on the local freight trains with the coal, and other odds and sods. As part of the modernisation of the tanker fleet the big companies centralised their storage and distribution hence block trains that could travel faster. Quicker turn round, less wagons, you know the same old story. So for a 1950s freight train a few tank wagons in the train is right, they can even be of different companies. There were some block trains but not too many. One thing to remember is if it was block train of unfitted wagons the chances of two wagons being the same was by accident not design. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) Hi all, Here are a few more from my visit to Derby... 12" : 1ft versions! Not even sure what this is - too modern for me! I do know what these are! But I don't take numbers any more, sad ain't it. Class 43 just in my era, spotting - not modelling mind you. Bit overpowered for two wagons! Forgot to delete the thumbnails - AGAIN! Edited May 10, 2015 by mike61680 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 Politely asked for a Peak on parcels so here it is me old mate... BR Peak Type 4 No. D67 'The Royal Artilleryman' thunders north with an express parcels working.....whilst... EE Type 4 No. D368 (my house number coincidentally) takes charge of a southbound Freightliner service. Thats it for today guys 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Hi all, Here are a few more from my visit to Derby... 12" : 1ft versions! 2015-05-09 15.01.30.jpg 2015-05-09 15.01.32.jpg Not even sure what this is - too modern for me! 2015-05-09 15.03.44.jpg I do know what these are! But I don't take numbers any more, sad ain't it. 2015-05-09 15.04.42.jpg Class 43 just in my era, spotting - not modelling mind you. 2015-05-09 15.06.30.jpg Bit overpowered for two wagons! Forgot to delete the thumbnails - AGAIN! Hi Mike, The 20's and two barrier wagons / tanks are for the underground stock movement to and from London driven by Marcus37 (Kyle of Loch William and Peak Forest Wood) of this forum. Great pics mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
67A Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) Hi Mike, The 20's and two barrier wagons / tanks are for the underground stock movement to and from London driven by Marcus37 (Kyle of Loch William and Peak Forest Wood) of this forum. Great pics mate. Hi Andy, Thanks for that, shows how little I know about the modern railway I thought it was for weed killing - honest. Marcus37 is the guy with the 37 avatar - yes? Did you enjoy the Derby show mate. edit: typo Edited May 10, 2015 by mike61680 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
77philg Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 IF modelling 1966 ish black BP shell crude 100 ton tea tanks(Bachmann 38-221) hauled by a class 47 air braked , about the same period as your freightliner trains. Great job on the layout . Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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