Jump to content
 

Why were no GWR Granges saved from scrap and preserved for the future?

OnTheBranchline

By OnTheBranchline,
in Preservation

Recommended Posts

  • RMweb Premium
Gwiwer

Gwiwer

Posted
  • RMweb Premium
Posted

I don't think there ever was a reason as such. It is simply the case that none was bought and saved. The National Collection cannot accommodate one of everything so the nation relied on the deep pockets of private individuals (in the main) for preservation in the Barry era and before and no-one bought a Grange .........

 

The basic technology of the steam engine and the peculiarities of the GWR locomotive were already well represented. It's more the fine detail and the Xxxxxx Grange name that we don't have.

 

Just as we don't have preserved examples of numerous other classes of stem, diesel and electric locomotives which are mourned just as much.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold
Happy Hippo

Happy Hippo

Posted
  • RMweb Gold
Posted

If they were not bought out of service, the vast majority of steam locos did not make it to the now defunct RPSR at Woodhams.

 

No Granges were found languishing at Barry

 

If a Grange had got there one, it would probably have survived.

 

Enthusiasts have quickly accepted Tornado as a steam loco of the A1 class, and there is no reason why they will not also accept Betton Grange when she steams onto the heritage circuit.

 

Regards

 

Richard

 

RPSR = Railway Preservation Strategic Reserve.

 

I'll let you into a secret:

 

The Granges all are still in working order and are hidden in my and the Stationmasters respective compost heaps.

Chris F has all the 47xx class hidden under his stairs.

Cap'n Kernow, has a curved frame Bulldog in his garage.

 

I'm not a liberty to say more...............secret y'know!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Belgian

Guest Belgian

Posted
Posted

I think that's all nonsense, because all the Granges, 47xx, Bulldogs, Atbaras, Broad Gauge engines and one LNER P2 Mikado were taken to a man-made island in the Bristol Channel one night and it was lowered beneath the waves to keep it hidden from Soviet spyplanes in 1967.

 

JE

Link to post
Share on other sites
Castle

Castle

Posted
Posted

I'll let you into a secret:

 

The Granges all are still in working order and are hidden in my and the Stationmasters respective compost heaps.

Chris F has all the 47xx class hidden under his stairs.

Cap'n Kernow, has a curved frame Bulldog in his garage.

 

I'm not a liberty to say more...............secret y'know!

 

Happy Hippo,

 

Will you keep quiet about this please? The teams in the loco works at Didcot and the Grange guys at Llangollen want everyone out there to think we are spending loads of time, effort and energy building these things from scratch and not getting them from under our beds or our garden sheds. I strongly refute the rumour that I have a Saint dismantled in my attic and that the bits are slowly being drip fed to the loco works!*

 

All the best,

 

Castle

 

*For several reasons: because this thread has become in parts and the strategic reserve as an idea is very silly indeed but mainly because I live in a ground floor flat...

Link to post
Share on other sites
BrushVeteran

BrushVeteran

Posted
Posted

It may be to do with the fact that they had a large amount of copper content in the fireboxes and that the residual scrap value was higher as a result. Usually the scrap merchants were pretty clued up as to the various metals used in the differing classes and this factor may have dictated which classes got broken up quicker. I am not an expert on these so these factors are being reported as I have received them from James Friswell at Banbury who broke up at least one Grange.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold
The Stationmaster

The Stationmaster

Posted
  • RMweb Gold
Posted

It was said to me some time ago that PBW had a Grange lined up for purchase but then bought 7029 instead. Don't know if this is reality, but Granges were still working out of Tyseley and Oxley to virtually the end of 1965, the time when 7029 was officially withdrawn. .

 

That is absolutely correct SE - and I heard it from the mouth of PBW himself. He was in fact offered a 'Grange', with a fairly low mileage since its most recent General and reportedly in very good condition, but the chance to buy 7029 then came up and Pat couldn't afford both and he decided that the 'Castle' was of greater historical importance. Hence 7029 was preserved and the 68XX wasn't.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...
  • RMweb Gold
tomparryharry

tomparryharry

Posted
  • RMweb Gold
Posted

It may be to do with the fact that they had a large amount of copper content in the fireboxes and that the residual scrap value was higher as a result. Usually the scrap merchants were pretty clued up as to the various metals used in the differing classes and this factor may have dictated which classes got broken up quicker. I am not an expert on these so these factors are being reported as I have received them from James Friswell at Banbury who broke up at least one Grange.

 

I don't believe that the 'Grange' had a larger amount of copper. I understand it uses a No1 boiler (Hall, etc). More than likely that Woodhams dind't bid on whatever disposal lot numbers that were around at that time.

 

Regards,

Ian

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Premium
kevinlms

kevinlms

Posted
  • RMweb Premium
Posted

15 were cut up at Swindon, 12 by Cashmores at Newport, 6 at Great Bridge, 8 by Birds at Bridgend, 6 at Morriston, 10 by Cohens at Kettering and 4 at Kingsbury Gloucester.

 

But that only adds up to 61, where are the rest hidden away?

 

:sungum:

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Belgian

Guest Belgian

Posted
Posted

But that only adds up to 61, where are the rest hidden away?

 

:sungum:

I think there were only 61 Granges built. Some had different names and numbers on each side to fool the railway enthusiast community into believing there were more of them. The 'Strategic Reserve' theory has been shown to be a load of old tosh, so this is the only 'true' explanation.*

 

JE

 

*I got it first!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold
TheSignalEngineer

TheSignalEngineer

Posted
  • RMweb Gold
Posted

I think there were only 61 Granges built. Some had different names and numbers on each side to fool the railway enthusiast community into believing there were more of them. The 'Strategic Reserve' theory has been shown to be a load of old tosh, so this is the only 'true' explanation.*

 

JE

 

*I got it first!!!

 

So it was all an accounting trick then, build 61 and show the value of 80 in the books. The resulting saving can then be pocketed by the shareholders.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold
Brinkly

Brinkly

Posted
  • RMweb Gold
Posted

It is a shame that one of every class wasn't saved, but as others have said it just isn't feasible. When BR drew up the list for the National Collection, it was one hell of a thing they were committing future generations too. Really we are lucky to have as many steam locomotives as we do. If Barry's Scrap Yard had cut up the locomotives first, the heritage world would never be as big as it is today.

 

Regards,

 

Nick

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold
The Stationmaster

The Stationmaster

Posted
  • RMweb Gold
Posted

Sadly I came back to modelling AFTER all the Hornby Granges had left the shelves. I do hope they have a re-run... that includes a late BR example... maybe weathered.

Well the intended 2012 re-run was one of the early models supposedly delayed until 2013 so we can but cross our fingers and see if it does re-emerge in the 2013 lists.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Premium
Richard E

Richard E

Posted
  • RMweb Premium
Posted

Out of interest there was 2tons 9.5cwt of copper in a Grange firebox. Also 5cwt of bronze, 196lbs of gunmetal and 1 ton 10.25cwt of lead. There was a further 84lbs of copper in the tender. I cannot find any figures for comparative GWR engines. (figures applied to 6807, Birchwood Grange).

 

According to the Betton Grange Group and their research the disposals were:

  • 15 cut at Swindon
  • 11 at Cashmore, Newport
  • 9 at Cohen, Kettering
  • 8 at Birds, Bridgend
  • 7 at Cashmore, Great Bridge
  • 6 at Birds, Risca
  • 6 at Birds, Morriston
  • 5 at Birds, Long Marston
  • 5 at Cohen, Kingsbury
  • 4 at Buttigieg, Newport
  • 2 at Cohen, Morriston
  • 1 at Friswell, Banbury Yard
  • 1 at King, Norwich

And if I am not mistaken that makes 80 locomotives disposed of.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Coach bogie

Coach bogie

Posted
Posted

It wouldn't hurt Hornby to release one in the post war G W R livery as well.6813 Eastbury Grange please Mr K !

 

Or spend thirty minutes of your time with a Hornby shirt button (6877 from memory), some brake fluid to remove shirt button/ buffer beam number, some HMRS transfers and a set of plates from 247 Developments and your wish will come true.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold
gwrrob

gwrrob

Posted
  • RMweb Gold
Posted

Or spend thirty minutes of your time with a Hornby shirt button (6877 from memory), some brake fluid to remove shirt button/ buffer beam number, some HMRS transfers and a set of plates from 247 Developments and your wish will come true.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

I've done two [6814/29] already Mike so it wouldn't hurt Hornby to test the water with this livery to see if it actually sells.Not every modeller has the confidence to rename a model.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...