RBE Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Different things look wrong to different people, I did look at hand built track, but what then became an annoyance to me was where people hand made track for BR Sector and privatisation layouts with bullhead rails and chairs and wooden sleepers in places that would have long since changed to concrete. If I was going to hand make my track and I may well do so in the new areas, I will only do it if I can use flat bottom track and concrete sleepers, Peco at least got that right. Lots of secondary lines even now use bullhead, wood and chairs with concrete on the main. I mixed mine on Outon road as the mainline was concrete and the yard and seconary link lines were still in bullhead. There is no need to use bullhead in any case as the materials exist to make flatbottom track too. The issue with peco is that it has very little detail. The code 75 concrete is ok albeit the pandrol clips are a tad small being HO rather than OO but if you cut and space the sleeper as I did on Outon it can look good. The wooden however is rubbish as the rail is flatbottom and the chairs or just square blobs. You cant compare it to some proper stuff like c & l. I have to disagree about making code 100 acceptable. Its like narrow gauge track the rails are so high!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JCL Posted February 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2014 The Station is looking really good now, especially on that curve. I set a challenge for us both, being Peco users - make the track work and ballasting look as good as it can possibly be. I think I might be the most Heathen-like modeller of all. Mine is the ultimate in toy track - I've even got some Hornby track down (although I'm really trying hard to eliminate the use of Set track small radius points. I thought I was seriously upgrading when I switched to Peco Medium radius points and flexitrack... I don't know, I've a mix of Peco and Atlas. The fun is where the two brands meet as they are ever so slightly different heights. B-dum, b-dum, b-dum, b-dum. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 HI Other peoples layout threads are not really the place for a track debate , but if you want to look on AV, I have tried to think about if this old Peco dogma, and maybe that it is not as true as some would want us to believe. You can look at the math and correct me if I am wrong, which I often can be. Anyway in response to the measurements.. OO is HO, it is 4mm models on 3.5mm gauge track, so giving an aspect ration of 0.85, if my maths stand up. So all relationship between Track and model should follow that aspect ratio, else it is anarchy. C&L have pulled 8'3" out of the air , it is based on....? So their sleepers are too long for 16.5mm gauge Code 75 is also wrong if we want to split hairs, it is correct for bullhead on P4 , but under scale on flat bottom on P4 which should be about 82, on 3.5mm gauge it gets worse...it should be 0.85 of that of 18.83mm. so it should be code 63 for 00, where would all this end?? The art for me is in the compromise and trying to still making it look good despite it. If we inspect anything with a micrometer we will find only disappointment. In respect of things I didn't know... If you could point me to some pictures of secondary Bullhead and Chairs on present day lines, I would be very interested. When I was considering handmade track, I tried everywhere to find prototype pictures of present day Bulhead on Network Rail managed lines but drew a blank, so it would help me greatly if you can point me to some. I do like the look of bullhead but cannot find a justification on my layout. I also did not realise you can get copper clad sleepers with detail, I will have to check them out more carefully as I must have missed it.. Lastly if you feel the wood track is toy like and the concrete is OK , what about the steel track? How does that compare with other options? If you you like your track as it is, that is fine and you are quite right to be proud of it..... but to tell others their track is toylike, or unacceptable, and especially on their own layout thread..... well that is just not cricket sir! As my Gran told me, if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing. However Kenny Rogers then amended my thinking with his song "Sometimes you have to Fight when your a man" Sorry to do this on your layout thread AL, Hopefully normal service should now resume, as i am sure there are better places to argue this old chestnut. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Hi Al I have sent a PM re the track saga, hahha Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I think we are getting a bit upperty for no reason. I never said anything about copper clad I was talking of modern high standard flexitrack made by c and l that actually looks like real track. Its not a debate its a fact. Those that are happy with peco, fill your boots. Im not preaching scale track P4, EM or any other so maths is not the issue. We run on narrower track but that doesnt mean that we have to make it worse by having rails too high and sleepers too close together. Im preaching better more faithful to the prototype track. Which peco isnt in ant way shape or form. Im not dissing Als work as its very good and as a side I mentioned that it was a shame that he'd started by laying peco, I wasnt instructing him to rip it up and relay. As for the comment 'if you havent got anything nice to say dont say anything' that only leads to back patting and limited development. Constructive critism is the greatest teacher. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted February 20, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2014 Ok, here's my thoughts on the track debate... No-one would disagree that 00 is at best a compromise, but the use of SMP or other custom track gives the nearest approximation to the prototype. I am a beginner at railway modelling. This is the first layout I have ever built. Most of you who post on here are far more advanced modellers than I am, and have either built a number of layouts, or like Jaz and Kal, have a well established layout on which to continue enhancing your skills. I don't have any of that knowledge or experience to fall back on, and therefore when considering how to lay the track for my layout I went for the cheapest, easiest option, which was to use Peco code 100. I did try to avoid the set-track tight curves and short points though. Having read many, many threads on this forum, and looked at many photos of layouts in magazines, I know that it is possible to make code 100 look quite presentable, and I disagree that it necessarily looks toylike. Here's a photo I took of one of Bodgit's layouts This is code 100, and to my eyes, looks pretty good. If I can manage to match that level of competence at ballasting and weathering the track, I will be well pleased with it. I want to be able to run trains through Bakewell, and at the moment, that means getting the track laid as best I can, and weathering it to the best of my ability. I already have enough on my plate achieving those two aims, without the frightening prospect of trying to build my own track. I have discussed the idea of creating a static diorama on which to exhibit the buildings I've created, and were I to go ahead with that, then I would seriously consider building the track for that - partly as it would be under much closer scrutiny If I do that, and If as a result I become proficient at building trackwork, then I may consider relaying the main layout. But this will be a few years off, and dependent on skill and money. Thanks to all of you who've posted, Al. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Heres a few modern pics showing bullhead and chairs used in yards secondary roads in stations etc 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted February 20, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2014 I think we are getting a bit upperty for no reason. I never said anything about copper clad I was talking of modern high standard flexitrack made by c and l that actually looks like real track. Its not a debate its a fact. Those that are happy with peco, fill your boots. Im not preaching scale track P4, EM or any other so maths is not the issue. We run on narrower track but that doesnt mean that we have to make it worse by having rails too high and sleepers too close together. Im preaching better more faithful to the prototype track. Which peco isnt in ant way shape or form. Im not dissing Als work as its very good and as a side I mentioned that it was a shame that he'd started by laying peco, I wasnt instructing him to rip it up and relay. As for the comment 'if you havent got anything nice to say dont say anything' that only leads to back patting and limited development. Constructive critism is the greatest teacher. Thanks mate, I missed your post because I was writing mine I didn't take it as a criticism, in any way, and as I've said above it's something to think about in the future. I very much welcome and respect your views, and hope you will continue to offer your help and advice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JCL Posted February 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2014 Hi there, I'm in the same boat, and I've come to the conclusion that there's only so much I can learn in any given day, and some things will wait until my next go around the block. A Far Side cartoon said it all. A kid puts up his hand and says, "Please sir, can I be excused? My brain's full." What's coming up next on your plan? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Here here Al. I was never suggesting that you relay it all. Far too far along for that I was just commenting on it being a shame. Andy P I consider a pal and tongue in cheek he knows my feelings on code 100. Below are a couple of pics from Outon Road that shows the difference. That was the first time I hadnt used peco too and I was converted forever. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted February 20, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2014 I was reading through Outon Road the other night, and it does look good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted February 20, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2014 I like it. A bit of smoke from the chimney would do a treat. Oh and make it a bit sepia too! By your command... Took me bloody ages, that did 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JCL Posted February 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2014 Wow, that looks like an infrared photo! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted February 20, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Wow, that looks like an infrared photo! Oh, that good, eh Not convinced about the sepia-ness, myself... How about a box brownie... Edited February 20, 2014 by acg_mr 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Al I have a COMPLAINT TO MAKE In that pic you kindly should of Fiddlers Yard you could have at least Air Brushed out my BELLY :no: :no: :no: The FAT Controller Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted February 20, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2014 Still Playing... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted February 20, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2014 Al I have a COMPLAINT TO MAKE In that pic you kindly should of Fiddlers Yard you could have at least Air Brushed out my BELLY :no: :no: :no: The FAT Controller OOps... Sorry boss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 20, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2014 The black and white has real atmosphere. But what's with the blue sky? I can't remember much of that lately? And ignore the "fat" controller - he's just upset because Jason suggested he might be pregnant (and because he's had to eat less Belgian buns). Lovely work, Al. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted February 20, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2014 The sun always shines on Bakewell... (except when it's p155ing it down...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted February 20, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2014 The sun always shines on Bakewell... (except when it's p155ing it down...) Is that because it shines out of your ----? Sorry, couldn't resist! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Cracking pics of Bakewell mate, love the atmosphere. And Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sasquatch Posted February 20, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2014 Need to check in here more often Al. There's just bucket a truck load of atmosphere! That box brownie shot is now adorning my desk top! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikks Posted February 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2014 Peak Rail, I understand have disposed of the late Stan Robert's layout, without the OO gauge stock. However, it has been transported to a new location and my understanding is that the purchaser(s) intend to build a new version of Bakewell, to EM gauge, and are highly likely to utilise Mr Roberts's buildings on that new-build layout. That is really good news, Stan's Bakewell was superb, a real inspiration. Watching this one with great interest, looking really good. great job! Just prior to moving to Australia I walked the line from Monsal Dale, over the viaduct, through the tunnel to Millers Dale, this was in 1971. The track was gone I think? but the ballast was still in place, I wore desert boots with a thin sole, at the end of the walk, the soles of my feet were just two great big blisters. The views though were magnificent. This has to be one the most beautiful places anywhere(though being an ex-Derby lad I might be a tad biased), I remember watching steam on that line in the late fifties/early sixties. Rgds............Mike 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I agree the b and w one looks best. The sepia didnt work as it only really effected the sky. Very odd. Getting hose realistic looking photos is a great part of the hobby I think and helps to give confidence that what you have built looks right! Those pics are very convincing, even the colour ones which is the true sign. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeT Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 l Think that you have made a great job with 'Bakewell' just think 55 pages ago you were just a beginner, now look what you have built, l think the B/W picture looks real enough for me, well done Al, George.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now