Red Baron Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Hi all, quick question really - about to re-lay som sections of track on my layout - what should be steel / wood / concrete these days? Am unsure as to what is used where - is steel still for light rail or am i old fashioned? Assuming all mail line / high speed stuff is still concrete? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 What period is your layout? Gordon A Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted December 2, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 2, 2012 what should be steel / wood / concrete these days? Assumimg you're modelling recent times ("these days" and an avatar full of privatisation liveries is my clue). Generally - concrete for high speed/heavy main line use, steel for secondary lines. Can't say I've seen any recent "new" relaying with wood in any quantity, but there's still plenty of it about on the secondary lines. On the Settle & Carlisle, steel sleepers laid not too long ago, have been replaced by concrete as they were found to be unsuitable. My local line has virtually all been relaid over the last 3-4 years, predominantly in steel, but there are some odd new sections of concrete and I'm not entirely certain why. There's still a few hundred yards of wood left to replace. The traffic is mostly an hourly DMU with 3-4 freights per day on 45/60mph speed limits. I think steel sleepers were introduced to the UK in quantity in the mid/late 1990's, BICBW Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 2, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2012 Initial use of steel sleepers seem to have been during WWI and the GWR definitely installed some on Relief Lines (somewhere in Sonning Cutting no less - if published pictures are to be believed) but I think most of them were removed from running lines by the (?) mid '50s although I came across them in yards in the early 1970s. That design was a bit different from present day versions and was in any case for bullhead rail. Nowadays as Mick (above) says) they seem to be mainly used on secondary routes and those with lighter axle loading - we have some on our branch. It will be interesting to see how long they last in terms of corrosion and wear resistance compared with the 1940s version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted December 2, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2012 A link to Pandrol fast clip site on the web: http://www.pandrol.c...TR00_p20-21.pdf It mentions use of steel sleepers on the Settle and Carlisle at Crosby Garret amongst other places in the UK. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Baron Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 Thanks all - yes layout is last 20 years.... was assuming concrete for mainline but unsure just how much wood was left anywhere these days? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Modeller Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 It was suggested to me once that wooden sleepers are less noisy than concrete and steel, so maybe more suitable for residential areas - not sure how much difference it would actually make though, if any? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 The Pandrol clips have been changed in recent years from the traditional longitudinal ones to the current transverse ones. BSC at workington has been producing Steel Sleepers for many years and are very popular in Africa as they are termite proof, there are photographs of internal user wagons loaded with them in Paul Bartlett's collection. Steel works are also users of them such as Redcar and Scunthorpe. Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Part of the GW main line in Cornwall have been re-laid in steel. The longitudinal fixing referred to above has the tradename "Fast-clip" - a far superior fixing IMHO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Steel sleepers aren't allowed on third rail routes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trog Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 New timber sleeper relaying these days is generally places where there is not much ballast depth. so a short section over an under bridge would be prototypical. If you are using steel and concrete sleepers there should be four timber sleepers between the concrete and the steel ones, to run out the change. Timber sleepers are also sometimes used where a short ended sleeper is needed at an obstruction such as a catchpit, although a short ended version of the concrete sleepers being used is a better solution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Baron Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 many thanks for all the replies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon 123 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 There are still some bullhead steel sleepers in use at Ledbury, (the sidings by the western tunnel mouth) and Wrexham (in the headshunt for the old bay platforms) and they still look in good nick. I remember the first time I saw modern steel sleepers being put in just south of Hereford in the early 1990's. They have been laid in a few locations since then with no obvious rules being followed, note on a 90mph running line with RA10 vehicles running over them, and so far seem to have stood up well, although it would appear that Tamper operators don't like tamping them. Paul J. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 There are still some bullhead steel sleepers in use at Ledbury, (the sidings by the western tunnel mouth) Yes, there are and they're fecking slippery too !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Belgian Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 There are some good pictures of steel and concrete sleepers at Cowley Bridge Junction in the Cap'n's recent postings about the floods . . . JE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted December 3, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2012 I believe there are steel sleepers on the Welsh Highland - and despite it's illustrious heritage, that is a thoroughly modern line! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
28XX Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 SNIP On the Settle & Carlisle, steel sleepers laid not too long ago, have been replaced by concrete as they were found to be unsuitable. SNIP There's a funny thing! Who would ever have thought it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R A Watson Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 The main problem arrising with the early use of steel sleepers was that they are hollow underneath and therefore were difficult to support on the ballast, especially when jacking and packing. The introduction of moder maintenance machines,especially the stoneblowers has overcome this problem leading to greater use nowadays. If you look at captains pictures referred to above you will see a trainload of steels waiting to go up the Barnstaple line as part of the delayed works. Wally Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Richard E Posted December 3, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 3, 2012 Interesting as the old freight relief line on the west side of the run through Peterborough has just been lifted. I was rather surprised to see that this was, for the length of the station, laid with steel sleepers. This road was taking almost all of the freight southbound through Peterborough (but no more as it is where the new platform will be). I've also noted a tendency to use an odd steel sleeper now and again where there is need for a cable run under the track, in this case the cables are routed through the void space under the steel sleeper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account 2 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 There was a picture on therailwaycentre.com sometime ago which depicted a Cl. 142 Pacer on the mainline, the loop lines or siding had steel sleepers and the mainline hard concrete sleepers. You can always use steel sleepers for sidings or loops or even derelict lines. What I find odd would be the transition from concrete to steel, it'll look odd on model railways IMHO atleat I find it that way but you may not. Unless you ballast them nicely and do a good weathering job - that would look spot on. All the best with you work mate. Cheers, Jeeremiah. [bangalore] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I've also noted a tendency to use an odd steel sleeper now and again where there is need for a cable run under the track, in this case the cables are routed through the void space under the steel sleeper. These are not ordinary pressed steel sleepers but are specially made for cable runs as opposed to bright orange tube, to avoid cable damage when tamping! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Steel to Concrete transition, with the 4 wood sleepers as mentioned above. (Gravelly Hill, 2004) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biloxi26 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Dear educated members. Please can you tell me why 4 is the magic number of timber sleepers used between steel and concrete sleepers. Is there a reference for this. I am soing some research in Nottingham into which sleeper performs the best. does anyone have any experience with plastic sleepers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Peter Beckett Posted November 16, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 16, 2015 Paul, Some early steel sleepers in Northern Queensland between Normanton and Croydon. Laid in 1891,the railway was dubbed "a train from nowhere to nowhere". It is run by Queensland railways and called the Gulflander. It runs every Wednesday and Thursday each week. Well worth a visit Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trog Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Dear educated members. Please can you tell me why 4 is the magic number of timber sleepers used between steel and concrete sleepers. Is there a reference for this. I am soing some research in Nottingham into which sleeper performs the best. does anyone have any experience with plastic sleepers Timber sleepers are more expensive than steel or concrete and don't last as long. So you want the least number that still gives a transition between the different behaviours and maintenance needs of the adjacent steel and concrete sleepers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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