Motive power for Camden Shed

[farren]

Another excellent special build there. Iain

 

You do like to spoil us.

[92220]

A few more pictures of progress in two of the later stages:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then with buffer beam painted, buffers, front coupling, smokebox numberplate added. Tested and runs well - better than before, after I resoldered the Brassmasters slide bar support brackets and cleaned the wheels and pickups. Nearly ready for weathering. Just the cab details to do now

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Iain

[92220]

A few more in the sunlight:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Iain

[cb900f]

Brilliant bit of work there Iain. You should be well pleased with the result.

 

Mines in limbo due to making a dogs dinner of the washout plugs on the fireman's side.

 

British Legion ? 

 

Pete

[davidw]

A few more in the sunlight:

 

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Iain

Stunning piece of work!

[mark axlecounter]

We need a envious button lol. That is some amazing work Iain.

[Brocp]

That looks fantastic, looking forward to seeing her weathered. What's next on the cards Iain? I'm sure it's nearly time for a Princess, Parallel Boilered Pat or "standard" Jubilee? By the way did you ever get around to tarting up at Hornby Duke?

 

Love the work and keep it up mate,

 

Broc

[TerryD1471]

I can only echo the words of praise that our fellow correspondents have said about the work you have done. The end results are cosmetically delightful and I'm sure that with Hornby mechs underneath they will perform well too. So:- RESULT!!

 

Well done Iain

 

Terry

[92220]

Thanks all, very kind indeed.

 

I haven't got as far as the alterations to 46170, no. I think probably I will do the wheels (easy), the top feed pipes (harder) and stop short of taking 1.5 mm out of the smokebox (hardest, and if I get it wrong, catastrophic). Maybe I'll have another go at the body in the future, if I get a Scot and a Pat body to attack. I also have 46127 to do (a regular, and I have the plates), plus 5 other Scots and Rebuilt Patriots.

 

71000 may be next but one or two. I have a 1960 Hornby Duke, and a load of other bits that ought to improve it, like etched deflectors; lost wax injectors, ejectors and other valves; Gibson bogie wheels,

 

Would definitely like to do both a Princess and a parallel boilered Patriot in due course. Not yet sure how best to achieve those given where my skills have developed to thus far. Taking the Princess for instance, the best idea would be, probably, either to do a Brassmasters kit or to start with a set of Judith Edge etches and work from there. Sadly I am, realistically, not quite there yet in terms of skills or time. So if I were to start one tomorrow (!) I would probably have done a lot more research, got a drawing and made some measurements before pronouncing how I would go about it! But maybe it is possible that I could make something from a Hornby chassis with Gibson bogie wheels, Judith Edge etches for the cab etc, some as yet undecided method of creating a firebox, boiler and smokebox of the correct dimensions, and a Comet tender (body at least). Plus a load of other fittings. As for the Patriot, I've no clue yet.

 

Original (i.e. not rebuilt, but unrebuilt seems such a ridiculous term) Jubilee: definitely would like a couple, yes. Hard to see where else to start except the current Bachmann model, but that restricts choice of subject a bit.

 

Next up is to complete all the Black 5s I have so far, which are in various states. Some are complete and need weathering. 44741 needs the new tender building as I dropped the original and haven't done the new one yet. A couple need detailing and the usual other hacking. One needs the chassis rebuilding. I have got far enough on 44684 that I'm not going to go back and do the tender ledge or the under smokebox thing. I'd like to complete all of them before I go on and start something else. But knowing me I might get tempted by some other ridiculous idea.

 

Iain

[farren]

The Bachmann jubilee is great model and considering the RTR bashish of late you have done, the LFB should definitely be a simple one with your skills already,

 

i Followed "Benachie" method turning a SFB into a LFB, with the use of Railmatch and weathering i managed to get away without doing a full paint

Edited August 29, 2016 by farren

[Brocp]

Hi Iain,

 

Even with it's short comings, 46170 does look terrfic and i bet with a touch of weathering said short comings probanly wouldn't be as noticeable. If you are like me though you'll always been a tad annoyed that they are there but look at it this way, the loco gives the layout a uniqueness that quite a lot don't have.

 

In regards to the Princess,it staggers me that Hornby still have something in their main range that is based on what 30 year old tooling? A 21st century Princess would be a massive hit, especially if they tooled up 6200/6201 as being quite different to the production class. As I'm in the slow process of modelling 5A shed in 1947 i do need all of them (well that's the excuse I'm going with anyway). I will say this though, if you can do the Caprotti 5's and British Legion i reckon you could handle a Princess kit/scratch build.

 

Patriots wise, the Bachmann model is brilliant in my opinion and since Bachmann flooded the market originally with BR Green ones, you could probably pick one up cheap on Ebay, all it really needs is new bogie wheels, pipe work under the cab and a brassmasters etched coal rails, they make a massive difference.

 

Echoing Farren above, the Jubilee is a great model too, why they didn't also do a retooled LFB version is beyond me. It isn't perfect (personally hate the opening smokebox door, thought i guess it does add something if it is open on a shed scene) but with a little work (bogie wheels/under cab pipe work etc) it really does look like a Jubilee.

 

So next we'll be seeing more Black 5's to be finished? Not a bad thing at all. Also how are your Jinties going? I only watched the video of one running on the layout the other day....

 

Btw where are 10000 and 10001 at?

[92220]

Hi Iain,

Even with it's short comings, 46170 does look terrfic and i bet with a touch of weathering said short comings probanly wouldn't be as noticeable. If you are like me though you'll always been a tad annoyed that they are there but look at it this way, the loco gives the layout a uniqueness that quite a lot don't have.

In regards to the Princess,it staggers me that Hornby still have something in their main range that is based on what 30 year old tooling? A 21st century Princess would be a massive hit, especially if they tooled up 6200/6201 as being quite different to the production class. As I'm in the slow process of modelling 5A shed in 1947 i do need all of them (well that's the excuse I'm going with anyway). I will say this though, if you can do the Caprotti 5's and British Legion i reckon you could handle a Princess kit/scratch build.

Patriots wise, the Bachmann model is brilliant in my opinion and since Bachmann flooded the market originally with BR Green ones, you could probably pick one up cheap on Ebay, all it really needs is new bogie wheels, pipe work under the cab and a brassmasters etched coal rails, they make a massive difference.

Echoing Farren above, the Jubilee is a great model too, why they didn't also do a retooled LFB version is beyond me. It isn't perfect (personally hate the opening smokebox door, thought i guess it does add something if it is open on a shed scene) but with a little work (bogie wheels/under cab pipe work etc) it really does look like a Jubilee.

So next we'll be seeing more Black 5's to be finished? Not a bad thing at all. Also how are your Jinties going? I only watched the video of one running on the layout the other day....

Btw where are 10000 and 10001 at?

Thanks Broc,

 

I think I could make some sort of a Princess: it's just what to start with and how to go about it. I'm not expert at making a chassis yet, and almost every loco I've done has been an rtr chassis even if the mods have been significant. So at some point I may measure up a Hornby Princess chassis and see what can be done with it.

 

10000/10001? Haven't really thought about diesels yet, to be honest.

 

Jinties? One is nearly there in that I've done the chassis additions (sandboxes, pipes and brackets), and the chassis runs smoothly to some extent. It is smooth with power applied to the motor terminals, it's equally smooth with power applied to the wheel tyres - so the pickups work. But on the track it's a little lumpy or uneven.

 

 

So I'm just slightly unsure whether it will loosen up with running in, or whether it needs some fettling before I solder the crankpin nuts on and complete the rest of the loco. Should I ease the crankpin holes at all? Experienced eye needed.

 

As I've said, 46170 will get a few minor mods when I get round to it. Water feed pipes and wheels changed, plus weathering (and I'd like to take extra care to make a decent job of it), but the smokebox will remain as it's just too difficult.

 

Good shout on the Bachmann original Patriot. I'd completely forgotten about that - it does look a good basis and I'll have a go at one of them in time.

 

Black 5?

 

Another one completed short of a smokebox numberplate, painting and weathering. 45371 has had various bits done. Most of my Black 5s have been rescue jobs. A body here and a chassis there, or a slightly damaged loco as a start point. This one was a body and tender married to a spare chassis. The latter was from a more recent model, so had the DCC socket in the tender and the associated wiring from the loco. Without a tender to connect to it, it needed either wiring mods or a secondhand tender chassis from somewhere. Eventually I found one, and did the tender chassis mods I described previously for 46170. 45371 has also had:

Under smokebox removal

Vac pipe run under smokebox

Gravity lubricators

Frame extensions and slide bar support bracket (Brassmasters)

Cylinder covers and relief valves (Crownline and homemade)

Cylinder drain cocks

Replacement handrails and pillars (Gibson)

Injectors and pipework (Brassmasters and Gibson)

Filling in hollow under cab front and adding pipes

Bogie - removal of massive lump from front

Bogie wheels (Gibson)

Lamp irons, grab rails and steps

Brassmasters tender etches

Thinning of tender sides with a new scalpel blade

Replace rear steps from the tender (the chassis had lost these and Comet ones looked too fine next to the front steps so these are from the original old Crownline detailing kit for 44687.

 

A few pics on the turntable:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And outside in natural light:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And finally, my birthday present:

 

 

I'm not going to be able to build this in 5 minutes, but I'm excited to have the chance to build a worthy model of 46256 that will pull a prototypical load.

 

Iain

[Brocp]

Hi Iain,

 

Love the Black 5, goes to show with a little modelling, how good of a loco it can become, well look wise at least (all mine have been dreadful runners, not necessarily a bad thing on my proposed shed layout but still doesn't help others)

 

I really like Bachmann's Pat. Not much is needed to bring it up to "standard" and you can get them fairly cheap too.

 

Same goes for the LMS Twins, Bachmann's models of them a great and the green ones I've seen for under 80 pounds.

 

Another Sir William?! Or will this one become Salford? I'll personally say that i don't see much wrong with your modified Hornby model, hell if you don't want it anymore mate I'll buy it off you!

 

With regards to 46170's weathering the vast majority of pictures I've seen of it show it to be well cleaned, even up until near withdrawal. There is a pic of her in the "Crewe Sheds" book of her in the roundhouse in 1961 and it's spotless, besides the usual dirty cab roof and wheels/motion. I say that because i reckon that with a slight tone down it'll make the model come alive a lot more than making her grubby

 

At least with the change coming with the layout you can build up a bit of stock in the meantime. Hardest thing with lack of time is doing two things at once (layout building and buildibg rolling stock) would be easier for small layouts but obviously not for something like Camden Shed.

 

And finally slightly off topic but where do these broken bodies/models come from? I know it's most certainly ebay but whenever i search for these sorts of things (admittedly I'm in Australia but i always search world wide) not much comes up at all. I have a couple of Bachmann Jubilee bodies (new ones) and i got a damaged Hornby Scot body (rebuilt Jubilee time!) But from reading your topic plus Micklner's topics they do seem to be about but for whatever reason never show up on at least the ebay app for me.

[farren]

You just need to keep a eye out for what you need. I've managed to buy 18 4-6-0, in bits. Most are runners now but it's a a slow game. And Bachmann DCC ready Jubilees are near impossible to find and run at £60+.

[92220]

Hi Broc,

 

Farren's right I think. There aren't any short cuts or magic search terms that I've found. Just be patient and keep an eye out, especially for incorrectly listed items, non-runners going cheaply, and job lots with a few gems in among the tat. One of these - won for not very much at all - contained the body I used for 44687, as well as a perfect plain black recent (i.e. superdetailed China made) Britannia body, and a Stanier coach with one missing bogie. Several tons of scrap came with those three but that is probably £50-60 worth for a fraction of that figure. Sometimes, a badly damaged body or loco is just what I want as I'm going to hack it to pieces anyway! The loco I used for 44741 was battered. Sometimes I find the odd thing at shows but that's harder for you if you live in Aus.

 

I've seen a couple of pics of 46170 just after it had been shopped in the early 60s. One is here http://www.footplatecameraman.com/page3.htm on the website dedicated to Jim Carter's work. I've also seen a couple of it with AWS so in my era, and absolutely filthy. I think mine will be as you suggest, relatively clean but some judicious grime to look plausible.

 

The Ivatt Coronation will be 46256 - I'm pleased enough with the conversion I did but I think with some extra attention and detailing, this could be a good deal better, and definitely capable of heavier haulage. I'm going to seek some help to ensure I get the chassis spot on, and then adding detail and some modifications where necessary to the rest of it.

 

Anyone have any thoughts on the Jinty chassis? Maybe I ought to do a couple of videos to show what I mean.

 

Iain

[farren]

Wonder how many times we've out bided each other?

 

 

Mind bargains are still available. Just picked up a rebuilt pat body, complete tender and box for £30, all has good as new.

Edited September 25, 2016 by farren

[Brocp]

Hi Iain and Farren,

 

I'll have to try and widen my searches on Ebay, i have heard about some discrepancies between searches on the app compared to the actual site. It is kind of mind blowinf what some people get up to with their models judging by the wrecks you two have found.

 

Most locos were filthy towards after the war. I model 1947 LMS and unless with was something ex works, most were filthy. I have a photo of 6247 City of Liverpool and she is shockingly filthy, to the point where only half the cabside number is visible. I'll admit that when weather i try and keep that realism, but with my favourite locomotives I'll make an exception. Though from the photos i have seen and collected 5A seemed to keep the Lizzies cleaner than their Duchesses, for what reason i have no idea and on average the Rebuilt Royal Scots were quiet clean too.

 

Quiet the bargin their Farren, well done mate. Out of interest what do you search for when these pop up? I've type Hornby Patriot for example and nothing like that ever shows up for me, again though on the app

[farren]

Hornby rebuilt patriot. Also Hornby patriot spares/repairs. And Hornby chassis. Some times I put in just what part I waint. Ie Hornby stanier tender. No guarantee but sometimes changing search can bring up things you may have missed on the original search

Edited September 25, 2016 by farren

[92220]

A very hectic term has meant that I've not had much time at all lately, but I'm quite worryingly pleased with myself at having managed to make my first ever sweetly running Walschaerts-geared chassis to go under a Hornby Scot body:

 

 

 

 

 

I think I'm addicted......

 

Iain

Edited December 21, 2016 by 92220

[92220]

First test (no lubrication yet)

 

 

And a bit later on in the build:

 

 

Iain

[ianwales]

A very hectic term has meant that I've not had much time at all lately, but I'm quite worryingly pleased with myself at having managed to make my first ever sweetly running Walschaerts-geared chassis to go under a Hornby Scot body:

 

 

IMG_1685.JPG

 

IMG_1686.JPG

 

IMG_1691.JPG

 

I think I'm addicted......

 

Iain

 

Hi Iain

 

Very nice modelling, but, can you tell me what is wrong with the Hornby Scot valve gear as it stands please?

 

Ian

[92220]

Hi Ian,

 

Thank you.

 

I think the valve gear overall isn't bad at all on the Hornby Scot. One side has the return crank leaning backwards as usual, but the rest is pretty decent. It is a bit flimsy though, like most rtr valve gear.

 

There were two main reasons why I wanted to build this Comet chassis:

 

One, the motor seems all too prone to unmeshing from its gears on the Hornby version, and the one under 46170 did exactly that, so I knew I needed a replacement. Since then, I've managed to repair and modify that one, but I do have several/many others that are likely to go that way. I also had a couple of spare bodies.

 

Two, seeing Tony Wright's kitbuilt chassis on Little Bytham was both mesmerising and inspiring. Firstly, the running quality and haulage capacity were much better than rtr. Of the locos I took, my modified 92220 and 44687 were good, smooth runners. The valve gear on the Bachmann 9F isn't bad either, and 44687 has Caprotti gear anyway so had a reasonable appearance, but overall, the appearance of the motion was much inferior on the rtr models. Haulage-wise, 92220 romped away with a rake of 15, mostly kit-built, while 44687 managed a lightened rake of 11 Bachmann mk1s. Some of the others weren't good in comparison. So overall, although I could have persevered with the rtr chassis, I just wanted to make something, and make it well. If that makes sense. I know that Tony is a master and very experienced, but you've got to start somewhere!

 

Beyond that though, the chance of a current version Hornby Coronation pulling a big load are close to zero, and I want to be able to see proper WCML rakes of 12-15 running past Camden Shed. So I have to learn to make a complex chassis, unless I wait and hope that the new Hornby version has a very heavy, well balanced and smooth chassis, and lob many hundreds of pounds at the issue. None of my rtr models has got away without significant modifications, so you can probably guess that I enjoy making things. This is just another step I think.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Best wishes,

 

Iain

[Michael Edge]

Hi Ian,

 

Thank you.

 

I think the valve gear overall isn't bad at all on the Hornby Scot. One side has the return crank leaning backwards as usual, but the rest is pretty decent. It is a bit flimsy though, like most rtr valve gear.

 

There were two main reasons why I wanted to build this Comet chassis:

 

One, the motor seems all too prone to unmeshing from its gears on the Hornby version, and the one under 46170 did exactly that, so I knew I needed a replacement. Since then, I've managed to repair and modify that one, but I do have several/many others that are likely to go that way. I also had a couple of spare bodies.

 

Two, seeing Tony Wright's kitbuilt chassis on Little Bytham was both mesmerising and inspiring. Firstly, the running quality and haulage capacity were much better than rtr. Of the locos I took, my modified 92220 and 44687 were good, smooth runners. The valve gear on the Bachmann 9F isn't bad either, and 44687 has Caprotti gear anyway so had a reasonable appearance, but overall, the appearance of the motion was much inferior on the rtr models. Haulage-wise, 92220 romped away with a rake of 15, mostly kit-built, while 44687 managed a lightened rake of 11 Bachmann mk1s. Some of the others weren't good in comparison. So overall, although I could have persevered with the rtr chassis, I just wanted to make something, and make it well. If that makes sense. I know that Tony is a master and very experienced, but you've got to start somewhere!

 

Beyond that though, the chance of a current version Hornby Coronation pulling a big load are close to zero, and I want to be able to see proper WCML rakes of 12-15 running past Camden Shed. So I have to learn to make a complex chassis, unless I wait and hope that the new Hornby version has a very heavy, well balanced and smooth chassis, and lob many hundreds of pounds at the issue. None of my rtr models has got away without significant modifications, so you can probably guess that I enjoy making things. This is just another step I think.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Best wishes,

 

Iain

The Duchesses we have running on Carlisle are mostly DJH with a few scratchbuilt (in the 1980s), all are weighted up to at least 600g to cope with trains of that size. I can't get anywhere near enough weight in a Hornby one.

[TerryD1471]

I qui

 

The Duchesses we have running on Carlisle are mostly DJH with a few scratchbuilt (in the 1980s), all are weighted up to at least 600g to cope with trains of that size. I can't get anywhere near enough weight in a Hornby one.

I quite agree, Mike and Iain. The Hornby examples are nicely proportioned models with a good paint finish, but in terms of their haulage capability, they are disappointing. I, too use DJH Duchesses on Hest Bank (4 of them) to haul the heaviest trains as 14 mk1s seems to be a perfectly manageable load. I also have a couple of old Hornby Dublo Duchesses (with as many cosmetic mods as possible) and their haulage capacity is phenomenal. I am still working on the idea of scratch (or Comet) chassis with as much weight as possible inside a current Hornby body shell. We'll see how heavy I can get them!

 

Incidentally, I find both Hornby Britannias and the Duke to be better haulers than their Duchesses or Scots. I haven't checked their weights, but I suspect that their heaviness may be the reason.

 

Terry D

[92220]

The Duchesses we have running on Carlisle are mostly DJH with a few scratchbuilt (in the 1980s), all are weighted up to at least 600g to cope with trains of that size. I can't get anywhere near enough weight in a Hornby one.

Thanks Mike, glad it's not just me who can't! I bought RM for the first time in a long while yesterday, specifically to see and read about Carlisle. Epic. To you and David, and everyone else on the project, many congratulations so far, and I look forward to more instalments.

 

I need to wait for better weather to complete painting etc, so next on the list are 2 Coronations - one Comet chassis for a Hornby City of Leeds which is earlier in the thread. I detailed it and then tried to add enough weight to make it disturb the surface of a rice pudding. Sadly I miscalculated the internal dimensions and once I'd left the cyano to set fully, I was left with a body and that wouldn't fit the chassis any more, and I couldn't get the liquid gravity out either.

 

The other is a DJH 46256. I'm hoping that I can make a decent enough fist of it so that it will run well enough, pull well enough and be detailed and finished well enough. One thing that I'm not yet sure of is the shape of the cab and cab roof. Did you do much to the DJH Duchesses in that area?

 

Thanks,

 

Iain