Motive power for Camden Shed

[farren]

Hi Iain excellent modelling going on there has we have come to expect.

 

Funny how things go I have just ordered the name badges for City of Salford. And was thinking of trying again at doing 46170 next. it seems I might give your method a try. Hope you don't mind. It Just so happens I've all the bits at hand. (Strange that). I'm not stalking honest!

 

Who's Transfers did you use? Fox or HMRS

Edited August 3, 2016 by farren

[92220]

Hi Farren,

 

Thanks, and no, I don't mind in the slightest. Please do let us know how you get on. If you can avoid the two mistakes I made I do think it's possible to make a really decent representation of 46170.

I used Fox specific Rebuilt Scot lining and one if their tender emblems, and HMRS numbers. I was dreading trying to get the running plate lining to look half decent, which was part of why I was originally trying not to do a complete livery. But by cutting into sections about 30mm long, it went on pretty well in the end. I think.

 

A couple of the 46146 on the turntable.

 

 

 

 

Iain

[Buhar]

Hi Iain,

 

This is really interesting and the finished article looks superb.  How much should you have removed from the smokebox, I had them as the same length.  In the absence of a drawing, I'm having to play with side-views in Photoshop and so at the edges of an image (ie where the smokebox is) there will be errors.

 

Your amendments to the Hornby Stanier tender are useful too.  Thanks for posting the details.

[davidw]

Iain , Whose paint did you use on 46170?

Edited August 3, 2016 by davidw

[92220]

David,

It was Halfords Rover Brooklands Green as recommended by a few as a decent match for BR passenger green. I'm not knowledgeable enough to be sure but I think it went on ok?

 

Alan,

I think about 1.5mm, maybe 2.0 - it's hard to be certain because I also originally measured the smokebox the same length as those on the other rebuilt 4-6-0s. My fault for using a drawing that wasn't detailed enough. Or accurate enough I guess. The front of the smokebox on 46170 should definitely sit a bit ahead of the inside cylinder cover, almost exactly level with the curve down at the top of the deflectors.

 

I'm debating whether to try rectifying it. And the pipes.

 

Iain

[davidw]

David,

It was Halfords Rover Brooklands Green as recommended by a few as a decent match for BR passenger green. I'm not knowledgeable enough to be sure but I think it went on ok?

 

Agreed! Looks lovely. I've used it myself looks particularly good in the photos Edited August 3, 2016 by davidw

[farren]

Hi Iain. Sorry to bother you again. Where did you put the exter piece on British Legion. Is it just extending the smoke box. Or extending the boiler? If so how did you marry you the boiler smoke box angle.

[92220]

Hi Farren,

 

No problem at all. Ask anything you like. Apologies if my previous explanations were a bit vague.

 

The Pat boiler and smokebox was cut as below:

 

 

and the combined length of that entire section would provide the just under 11" extra boiler length, once trimmed and sanded down.

 

 

 

This was then grafted onto the Scot smokebox:

 

 

This had the saddle repositioned to account for the difference in length of boiler but sitting on the same length running plate:

 

 

 

 

 

So creating this:

 

 

Where the smokebox that you can see is the entire Scot smokebox, and the boiler that you can see is the Pat boiler plus 3.x mm of the Pat smokebox, all carefully filed, trimmed and sanded smooth to make it all appear as one.

 

My problem was that the Scot smokebox is in fact a fraction longer than 46170's smokebox. So the front end is about 1.5mm too far forward.

 

How did I marry the boiler-smokebox angle?

A good deal of care, plus test-fitting, assembling and gluing it while sat on the Scot running plate. The firebox and boiler locate with tabs where the splashers go, and the saddle locates the smokebox. Keep the whole assembly flat while you do it and it should ensure you get a good clean fit.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Best wishes,

 

Iain

[farren]

Thanks iain, for your explanation. I can strip down my mk1 46170. Try again.

[92220]

While I contemplated the water feed pipes and the smokebox on 46170, I also remembered that I'd failed to replace the Patriot driving wheels with a Scot set (different and distinctive balance weights). These will need to be done. But rather than get on and do them, I decided to begin another little project.

 

I made a conversion to 44687, one of the high running plate Caprotti Black 5s, some time ago, from a mix of a Hornby donor, a Crownline conversion kit meant for the old tender drive loco, and a bit of ingenuity. I've not been 100% happy with it, partly as the Crownline etch for the cab sides had windows a good bit too small.

 

So, armed with a scrap Black 5 body with the correct forward top feed position, a load of plastic, wire, fret waste and a few parts, I set out to make a replacement body to fit on what was a half decent representation of the chassis.

 

Body (this has already had handrails, smokebox door and chimney removed, but the rest was as it is, i.e. In a sorry state)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is then attacked with a razor saw, piercing saw, Stanley knife, files and various grades of wet and dry, to create this:

 

 

The Ian Beattie drawing is, as far as I can make out by comparison to other sources, wildly wrong in the positioning of the double chimney, (which mirrors the double chimney on the low running plate versions but not this one), but reasonable, for my purposes at least, in other respects.

 

 

 

 

The infamous below smokebox area hacked out and beginning to improve, plus 4 pieces of 0.8 brass rod inserted temporarily to assist fabricting and accurate positioning of the new scratch built running plates. This is useful as the running plates follow the shape of the firebox, boiler and smokebox, which have no square lines as reference, and constantly changing angles where the plates attach. This way, you can keep offering up the pieces of plastic to measure, mark, file and fettle where necessary.

 

 

 

 

Once complete, the running plates can be attached with MEK with the brass rods in position to support and maintain absolute squareness, then small strengthening support pieces added, before finally removing the rods. Hopefully, a really solid and level pair of running plates.

 

 

One this is done, there is a small amount of drilling to do - for extra handrail pillars, lifting eyes, front steps etc, but it's largely a case of adding stuff to this shell, deciding in which order and with which adhesive.

 

Iain

[Jamiel]

I liked your original Ivatt Black Five, but the improvements look very promising. I always loved the brutal look of those two locos.

Jamie

[mark axlecounter]

You must be able to read minds or you have a camera in the signal boxes I work ,because I have done the second black 5 44686 but I need to finish it off.

Keep up the good work Iain

[farren]

Nice idea with the rods. That must make your life a whole lot easier.

[46256]

Lovely work as ever on these models. 46170 in particular has grabbed my attention. You mention the Scot smokebox is 1.5 mm too long. I have been studying your photos.....could this be removed just in front of the rivet detail/boiler band. This detail then reglued back into place after removal? I appreciate this necessitating a further cut and the requirement to ensure squareness. On the subject of glue which adhesive do you use. I ask having butchered a number of GBL plastic bodies and found for example some contact adhesives did not take. I appreciate Hornby use a different grade of plastic, but worth asking. In conclusion really enjoy your work best wishes Brian

[92220]

Thanks Brian.

 

I would have to take a slice out behind the ring of rivets, yes. I'm very much doubting my ability to make two exactly parallel cuts on quite a large cylinder that is completely attached to the running plate, without causing untold damage to the rest of it.

 

I use a variety of adhesives and solvents.

 

Plastic to plastic - mainly Mekpak, occasionally a little plastic weld, but Limonene if I'm laminating sheets or using clear plastic.

Metal to plastic - thick and runny Rocket cyano, Evostik or 5 minute epoxy, depending on the job. Sometimes I would glue a plastic section to the metalwork epoxy, let it set really hard and then use solvent to attach this strip to the other piece of plastic, which makes for a stronger bond and less time holding the parts together.

Metal to metal - as far as I can, I solder then glue the whole assembly to the plastic. But if not, one of the three above.

 

Hope that's useful.

 

Getting well on with 44687 now. Strap steps and whistle arrived from Andrew at Comet/Wizard this morning - his usual excellent service.

 

I do need to make a decision which chimney to use. Please ignore the fact that they aren't all quite seated square, but these are the choices:

 

1.

 

 

 

2.

 

 

 

 

3.

 

 

 

 

Any views welcome. The third one is the Comet Black 5 double chimney and I think it matches the drawings and dimensions fairly well. It just looks a little big. I think no. 1 is a red herring. 2 is a discarded Hornby Scot chimney and it is close.

 

Front steps:

 

 

With a tiny length of 0.33 wire attached to make the bond to the frames stronger

 

 

Then, in situ with 4 tiny slivers of 10 thou plastic representing the supports

 

 

Quite a lot more done since this - will post an update later.

 

Iain

[farren]

An idea im thinking mulling over is chopping the end of and using rivet transfers to replace the missing ones. Witch I bought for the tender for 46257. After repairing it's tender I dropped. But need to look at some photos of 46170. Before I decid. Theres a few in "The power of Royal Scots" which are handy.

 

You court me out with the latest post Iain. Coming on a treat. Definitely cooking with Gas now.

Edited August 10, 2016 by farren

[cctransuk]

I would have to take a slice out behind the ring of rivets, yes. I'm very much doubting my ability to make two exactly parallel cuts on quite a large cylinder that is completely attached to the running plate, without causing untold damage to the rest of it.

 

 

.... or make one cut with a blade 1.5mm thick - automatically parallel faces to the two parts !

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[92220]

I had thought of that actually, John. My own handsaw cuts about 1.2mm. But attacking this with that? No way!

Are there any blades that cut wide but fine and neatly?

 

Back to 44687:

 

A bit of progress on the body:

 

 

 

 

Cab doors are joined to the Hornby window inserts and just placed at the moment. They will be painted separately I think, then the window units glued in place.

 

Then placed on the chassis to see how it was looking:

 

 

 

As the body takes shape my eye was drawn to the chunky Crownline Caprotti gear. And I started thinking that this isn't good enough.

 

Then I remembered that I have a spare set of Hornby Duke Caprotti gear.

 

 

 

 

 

With a bit of alteration this had potential to be a lot better.

 

Attaching this to the chassis brings its own problems, as gluing plastic directly to the flat side of the Hornby chassis is not very secure. Hornby attach their Walschaerts gear to this piece of plastic with a hole in:

 

 

 

So I decided to do the same. A length of plastic rod goes through the hole, and a piece of 10 thou plastic can then be welded to this rod and epoxied to the chassis. This will then provide an easy place to weld the plastic scratch built motion support, so giving a much stronger bond.

 

 

 

Anyway, the whole thing gets a bit addictive. You might see what I've been messing about with to build the lubricator support.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Iain

 

 

edit to place thumbnail pics in post

Edited August 11, 2016 by 92220

[Michael Edge]

You could use a 2mm thick slitting saw (slowly) but this would involve machine tools.

[cctransuk]

I had thought of that actually, John. My own handsaw cuts about 1.2mm. But attacking this with that? No way!

Are there any blades that cut wide but fine and neatly?

 

How about a fine-toothed hacksaw blade - or perhaps a junior hacksaw?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[farren]

Now that's looking the bee's knees.. and it's still not finished.

 

 

We have some very funny looking bees where I come from!

Edited August 11, 2016 by farren

[Buhar]

I was thinking two thin blades secured together and spaced to the desired width. You might end up sacrificing them, mind. Although if you could bolt them together and use spacing washers you might have a tool.

[92220]

Getting there.....

 

This is with the injectors and pipework etc plus other under cab gubbins completed,

 

 

Lamp irons, chimney done. Rear sandboxes replaced with scratchbuilt plastic ones, and lubricator drive and mounting also scratched from wire and bits of fret.

 

 

 

 

 

Now I think all there is to do is to add the end of the reverser, sort out the steampipes, add the sandbox filler pipe and sandpipes themselves, cab rear handrails, then clean, prime and paint.

 

I think.......

 

Edit: plus safety valves and whistle....

 

Iain

Edited August 15, 2016 by 92220

[92220]

A little further.

 

After one coat of primer:

 

 

 

 

Which highlights any imperfections and allows them to be rectified.

 

Then two coats of satin black:

 

 

 

 

Cab doors were painted separately before being fitted as they are attached to part of the glazing unit. Safety valves will also be fitted later.

 

The primed views show up some of the detailing more effectively. I hope you like what I've done. It's a much better effort than the one I did 5 years ago, I think. Getting really good views of the under cab and under footplate bits and pieces has been a mission, but there is so much space there that at least some of the most prominent pipes and brackets have to be right. If I've correctly interpreted pipe run plans and diagrams, plus what photos I have in reference material (the best of which is the LMS Locomotive profiles book on the Caprottis), then hopefully it's not too bad.

 

Iain

[jukebox]

Love the plumbing detail, Iain.  That was one of things I was most proud of, building my DJH Duke - making the area under the cab suitably "busy" . You've done a great job.

 

Scott