Hornby Sentinel - including cranked version

[DLPG]

 

Durham Locomotive Group (DLPG) have pics of theirs (The Tarmac one) at the quarry somewhere here on RMWeb I think,and if not on RMWeb, it might be on Facebook

 

Link to DLPG facebook page for current pics at NRM Shildon.

 

https://www.facebook.com/DurhamLocomotivePreservationGroup

 

Link to page on RMweb for Tarmac livery on collection from quarry

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65398-hornbys-2013-announcements/page-17

[simon br blue]

Just a small point I've not seen mentioned yet is that the axle box or drive mechanisms look to be over scale on the Hornby pictures.

[rope runner]

I can't see this model being done and dusted for a middle of year release IMHO

 

Paul A.

[avonside1563]

syks - bsc 40 grimesthorpe 82 JL by johnmightycat1, on Flickr

That's a nice photo to see, might have to try one of these on BCB on the steelworks branch...

[Ruston]

Just a small point I've not seen mentioned yet is that the axle box or drive mechanisms look to be over scale on the Hornby pictures.

 

Yes, the axleboxes do appear to be somewhat overscale. I can't see any reason for this as I assume the axles will run in the chassis and therfore the axleboxes will be purely cosmetic.

[dcroz]

Images of the first decorated samples are now available on Hornby's Facebook page at:

 

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151269262325843.456380.53107985842&type=1 

 

• NCB - https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/6708_10151269262370843_1939486137_n.jpg
• Esso - https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/529212_10151269263140843_874309503_n.jpg
• Tarmac - https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/538311_10151269263370843_1547888009_n.jpg

 

Best wishes,

 

David

Edited February 6, 2013 by dcroz

[Adam]

Thanks for linking to those shots David.

 

Barring the axleboxes (which seem to be twice scale size - painting them yellow makes this really obvious) and the poorly assembled Tarmac version that doesn't look too bad. The brakegear looks nicely done even if the side skirts don't; the rather crude gap around the edge on what should look like a single sheet of metal jars. Has anyone seen a good three-quarter view or elevation of the bonnets yet?

 

Adam

Edited February 7, 2013 by Adam

[PhilJ W]

They are not axle-boxes but dust covers to prevent the ingress of dirt to the bearings. I am not sure about the others but they are correct for the NCB loco, coal dust would play havoc with the bearings. 

[Adam]

They are not axle-boxes but dust covers to prevent the ingress of dirt to the bearings. I am not sure about the others but they are correct for the NCB loco, coal dust would play havoc with the bearings. 

 

I beg to differ on that. This seems to be the prototype shot the NCB machine is based on in the first picture on this page, prior to rebuilding by Thomas Hill:

 

http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/locos/d/sentinel.html

 

Note that the items in question are nowhere near that size. The axles, so far as I know, are in outside bearings (the steam loco's certainly were and the diesel chassis were pretty much the same design) - so 'axlebox' seems a perfectly reasonable description. I've not seen a picture of a Sentinel with dust covers anywhere and I've spent far too much time looking...

 

Adam

[rope runner]

Impressed how quickly the painted samples have appeared, not so impressed with the axlebox size and the way the paneling has been done!

 

FYI, they are outside bearings - hence the leaf spring...

 

Paul A.

[Trainmaster64]

I am really liking the looks of these engines - I may be interested in obtaining at least one for my line, provided the price is right (it seems to be) and that the identities are okay. By that, I mean that I cannot use an engine which survives today and has been preserved. Does anyone thus know if all of these engines' liveries are of preserved examples, or is there at least one that is of an engine not preserved? I know that Cattewater (Esso) has been preserved; are the other two as well?

[Adam]

I am really liking the looks of these engines - I may be interested in obtaining at least one for my line, provided the price is right (it seems to be) and that the identities are okay. By that, I mean that I cannot use an engine which survives today and has been preserved. Does anyone thus know if all of these engines' liveries are of preserved examples, or is there at least one that is of an engine not preserved? I know that Cattewater (Esso) has been preserved; are the other two as well?

 

The Esso version is liveried as a preserved machine though it is broadly as it would have appeared in Esso service (barring the name/lettering which is probably easy enough to remove).

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/industriallocomotive/hd746e0a#hd746e0a

 

The NCB version is a locomotive which has been preserved but not in that form; owing to accident damage it had a new cab in Thomas Hill style (see the link to the Bluebell site in my post above). Not sure about the Tarmac version, but barring the corporate logo, it's representative of a Rolls Royce/Sentinel factory paintjob.

 

Adam

[Trainmaster64]

Thank you very much, Adam, for your quick response - I do appreciate it highly. It seems as if I will be going for the Tarmac livery then; arguably the nicest looking one of them all. Granted, that's personal opinion there! It will be interesting to see how it performs as Hornby's first new four-wheeler since the 'Railroad'-style 0-4-0 locomotives and chasses.

[Porcy Mane]

Not sure about the Tarmac version, but barring the corporate logo, it's representative of a Rolls Royce/Sentinel factory paintjob.

 

Adam

 

Photographs on the old Foropic site by Murray Liston showed Sentinel 10077 was in clean Green livery with yellow buffer beams when working at Raisby Quarry, Coxhoe in September 1980. It also had yellow axle box covers but not the dinner plate size as on the Hornby model.

At this time it didn’t carry the lining or the Tarmac branding. The lining and branding may have come later with Tarmac eventually taking over operations at Raisby Quarry.

 

Some of the WRLPG lads that are on the forum may be able to answer more accurately as I think the loco now resides on the Weardale Railway.

 

Porcy.

 

Doh! Just read the post at the top of this page.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Porcy Mane

[Adam]

And here it is:

 

http://www.weardale-railway.org.uk/images/sentinel2.jpg

 

The line along the side sheet is a typical Rolls Royce Sentinel feature so this may well be the original paint. That version of the Tarmac branding is fairly recent, the old one is shown in the link below:

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/20/Oldtarmac.jpg/300px-Oldtarmac.jpg

 

Adam

[Boscarne]

Well, it's nice to see progress with this model, but oh dear those axlebox covers are not good.....

 

They should be like this;

 

Not the massive thing they seem to have come up with. Perhaps that nice Mr Edge can do us some replacements from his kit??

 

The only view they look vaugely similar in is this of the Durham one;

 

https://www.facebook.com/DurhamLocomotivePreservationGroup#!/photo.php?fbid=486493968064625&set=a.471510249562997.101076.424895680891121&type=1&theater

Is this different, of just a wide angle close up?

 

Then again I'm just nit-picking really, who'd have thought we would get this in RTR.

 

 

[Andy Y]

Simon's dropped me a note with a little more information.

 

 

 

 

The images shown on Facebook are of the first decorated samples and basically first shots off the tooling.  There is still some work to do on the tooling especially on the axle boxes which are a little oversized (well spotted Simon br Blue). Availability will be June / July but I stress we will not chase dates but I am quietly confident.  Finally I trust the attached images will put some peoples mind at rest over the quality of detail etc.  See following list:

 

·         Separate hand rails.

·         5 pole motor.

·         Fly wheel.

·         4 wheel drive.

·         Grill etchings.

·         DCC ready.

·         Die-cast chassis/footplate

 

 

 

 

Kindest regards

[jonhall]

Well those facebook shots have killed my enthusiasm stone dead - I hadn't really thought about it before, but having the side sheet split with the  chassis passing between it has rather spoilt the effect - particularly on the Esso livery where the chassis is painted black, and I don' see a way or re-working it without making the mechanism impossible to get at and requiring a total repaint.

 

Jon

[Adam]

The side sheet split is an issue - not that it would be an easy thing to mould parts of the cab integrally with it; there would have to be a join somewhere - but quite a number of Sentinels, especially in later years, lost the sidesheets altogether or had handrails substituted in their place. I imagine that this was because getting in to maintain them was a bit of a pig to do.

 

I have an idea how to hide the join in the chassis side sheet: a sheet bass overlay - I have one left over from my Judith Edge version since they were a different shape on the rod-drive variety. That's getting into full repaint territory too but that's something I would probably want to do in any event. A similar solution might apply for the side sheets.

 

If I'm honest, I wouldn't be considering this at all - price permitting - were it not for the spare Judith Edge parts I have in the bits box!

Adam

[Michael Edge]

The side sheet split is an issue - not that it would be an easy thing to mould parts of the cab integrally with it; there would have to be a join somewhere - but quite a number of Sentinels, especially in later years, lost the sidesheets altogether or had handrails substituted in their place. I imagine that this was because getting in to maintain them was a bit of a pig to do.

 

I have an idea how to hide the join in the chassis side sheet: a sheet bass overlay - I have one left over from my Judith Edge version since they were a different shape on the rod-drive variety. That's getting into full repaint territory too but that's something I would probably want to do in any event. A similar solution might apply for the side sheets.

 

If I'm honest, I wouldn't be considering this at all - price permitting - were it not for the spare Judith Edge parts I have in the bits box!

 

Adam

You might need the buffer beams as well, from the Hornby publicity shots they have confused the the two - buffer beam shape looks like the rod drive version (which is 6" wider) and not the chain drive.

Michael Edge

Judith Edge kits

[Adam]

You might need the buffer beams as well, from the Hornby publicity shots they have confused the the two - buffer beam shape looks like the rod drive version (which is 6" wider) and not the chain drive.

Michael Edge

Judith Edge kits

 

Quite so. Should have spotted that - I have those too, of course.

 

Adam

[dcroz]

I was delighted to see Simon's email with the CAD shots of the Sentinel - this sort of interaction is something that we've seen from Dapol for a fair time now, and with very beneficial results in terms of final product. I hope that this will also be the case for Hornby releases.

 

Personally, I was pleased to see that the spec does include separate handrails. etchings etc. My initial worry was that this might turn out to be a basic spec model, so I'm pleased these fears appear unfounded. I'm also relieved that the axle-box size will be amended before release.

 

Best wishes to everyone,

 

David

[Captain Kernow]

Here are some images of the Imerys Sentinel at Burngullow that I took on another work-related visit a couple of weeks ago (it was still raining there!). This one looks to have rather more open sides than the Hornby example, but would, I imagine, be a fairly straightforward conversion. The wheelbase approximated at 6' 6", based on the length of my boots!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bigherb]

What's actually the problem with the buffer beam?

[Adam]

What's actually the problem with the buffer beam?

 

If you compare CK's head on view with the Hornby isometric graphic you will see that the latter has a 'stepped' cutout on the corner while the loco in CK's picture has a straight cut corner. 

 

As Mike [Edge] points out, it seems that Hornby have copied a rod drive (i.e. 0-4-0 or 0-6-0) example which did have buffer beams shaped like that.  It is an error which really shouldn't be there and would be a bit of a pain to fix. 

 

Adam