Hunslet class 05

[Swindon 123]

_{If only Mr Plumb had angled his camera down a little more.}

 

_{http://plumbloco.smugmug.com/Trains/Former-LNER-Lines/i-hscB4Rj/A}

 

_{Seems like there was also some variation to the wasp stripes at the radiator end to those that had it applied from new.}

 

_P

 The only photo I have found of the cab controls in there original colours was the one below, which is an industrial loco but appears to be in something like the BR cab colours.

 

With regards to the wasp stripes, there where a number of variations over the years, the most prominent being that applied to some of the Scottish batch that where a lot more "pointier" than the others. See this photo, https://flic.kr/p/dwsyUrof D2581 to see what I mean. Others I've found like this include D2576, 2582,2584 and 2585. There may be others. Hopefully if the production goes correctly Heljans model of D2581 will appear in this style.

 

 

Are there any dates for the release of the earlier Scottish batch ?  The very first batch that went to the ER (east Anglia) and migrated to the North West (Liverpool area) had smaller driving wheels (3'4") and cabs than the NER and Scr  ones -have Heljan said they were doing those?

To my knowledge there are no plans by Heljan to produce the earlier 1955-8 batch. They are not all identical, later ones having taller bonnets than the first few built. To show the difference in size between the low cab and later high cab locos here's a photo of D2592 & D2556 at Haymarket in March 1968.

 

Paul J.

 

Edited to correct schoolboy error with loco number. D2556 NOT D2665. Doohh!

Edited August 4, 2015 by Swindon 123

[stewartingram]

Always the Silver Fox/DC Kits one instead?

 

 

 

 

On a Bachmann chassis from the earlier version 03 (not the Mainline type of chassis though). Runs superbly.

 

Stewart

[gridwatcher]

Always the Silver Fox/DC Kits one instead?

 

03-02-2012..jpg

 

03-02-2012...jpg

 

03-02-2012....jpg

 

On a Bachmann chassis from the earlier version 03 (not the Mainline type of chassis though). Runs superbly.

 

Stewart

There is........ however

[Clive Mortimore]

Always the Silver Fox/DC Kits one instead?

 

03-02-2012..jpg

 

03-02-2012...jpg

 

03-02-2012....jpg

 

On a Bachmann chassis from the earlier version 03 (not the Mainline type of chassis though). Runs superbly.

 

Stewart

 

There is........ however

 

Build your own. Sorry it is the best photo I could quickly find of D2571. I think it is running on a A1 kits chassis for the Hunslet 204hp 0-6-0s. Compared with the other 204hp 0-6-0s of all classes the coupling rod from the fly crank to the rear driving wheel was shorter owing to Hunslet using their own gear box design not the Wilson-Drewry (BR, Drewery and Barclay) or SSS Power-flow (Hudswell-Clarke locos).

 

I later placed it on a home made chassis (not scratch built as I did not turn my own wheels or wind the motor) which ran a bit better.

 

Neither of my hand made Hunslet 0-6-0s match the model produced by Heljan.

 

Edit. Just found a photo of my big cab Hunslet. This was running on a Mainline 03 chassis, no idea what it has under it now. The two tram engines have Nellie chassis under them.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Clive Mortimore

[AMJ]

The addition of a man in the cab sets the loco off and I have added one as per photo on someone elses post.  Big cab windows therefore he is visible.

 

As it's a Gardner engine same as the one in the 03 it might be worth considering one of those sound projects.

 

I don't think I managed to get a photo of the control desk when we had Cider Queen visit but I managed to get a photo of another loco framed by the front cab window.  I must try to find it.......

 

Geoff Plumbs photos of the Hunslet loco are great I must mention them to one of his relatives that I know.

[jjb1970]

Although the QC issues raised here are a bit disappointing the model looks very well done and is a lovely model of a rather unusual looking prototype I think. Heljan have made their own niche by specialising in lesser known and short lived diesel models and these look to be a fine addition to their range.

[Swindon 123]

The addition of a man in the cab sets the loco off and I have added one as per photo on someone elses post.  Big cab windows therefore he is visible.

 

As it's a Gardner engine same as the one in the 03 it might be worth considering one of those sound projects.

 

I don't think I managed to get a photo of the control desk when we had Cider Queen visit but I managed to get a photo of another loco framed by the front cab window.  I must try to find it.......

 

Geoff Plumbs photos of the Hunslet loco are great I must mention them to one of his relatives that I know.

Hello Andy, although fitted with a Gardner D2578 doesn't sound the same as an 03. The whole complicated method of gear selection and a slightly different silencer arrangement means they don't just sound the same. Hopefully this can be captured and reproduced when the loco is eventually recorded.

 

Just as an idea for TOPS era modellers who may feel left out by this model, when being restored D2578 was in Grey before the Green topcoat was applied so the opportunity was taken to apply TOPS numbers as, reproducing a loco in "Engineers Grey" livery as 05101. [The underframe had yet to be repainted].

 

 

Paul J.

[Poor Old Bruce]

Saw one of these at Club last night. A very nice model. Only comment, Should the coupling rods be red as per other BR Green shunter's? It looked a little odd in base metal. An easy fix though.

Still on my to purchase list.

 

Found a pic of D2513 in industrial service at Bently Colliery but retaining most of its BR livery. Rods and fly-cranks are red under the dirt.

[Phil Bullock]

Perhaps we should arrange a trip over to Moreton on Lugg with Brian from Howes to get the sound file right?

 

Phil

[steveb860]

Perhaps we should arrange a trip over to Moreton on Lugg with Brian from Howes to get the sound file right?

 

Phil

   I did a 5 day field exercise in the snow at Moreton on Lugg during Basic training. It may be 30 years ago now, but will never forget that place!  

[Swindon 123]

Perhaps we should arrange a trip over to Moreton on Lugg with Brian from Howes to get the sound file right?

 

Phil

One is in the pipeline. The only problem is D2578 has a minor vac brake fault that needs sorting before it can take place.

 

Paul J.

[Phil Bullock]

Did an evening visit with Worcester Loco Society a few years back and had a ride around the system behind the 03. What are the visit rules these days?

 

P

[Trains4U]

Just to note

We've had an e-mail stating that the A variant is due to be shipped imminently

 

These are the locos with the smaller diameter wheels, round buffers and shallower buffer beams

 

Class 05 shunter - 2500      D2574 BR green     

Class 05 shunter - 2501      D2578 BR green with wasp stripes (Preserved)

Class 05 shunter - 2502      D2581 BR green with wasp stripes 

Class 05 shunter - 2503      CIDER QUEEN as industrial use

 

     

 

Edited July 28, 2015 by Trains4U

[Clive Mortimore]

 

Just to note

We've had an e-mail stating that the A variant is due to be shipped imminently

 

These are the locos with the smaller diameter wheels, round buffers and shallower buffer beams

 

Class 05 shunter - 2500      D2574 BR green     

Class 05 shunter - 2501      D2578 BR green with wasp stripes (Preserved)

Class 05 shunter - 2502      D2581 BR green with wasp stripes 

Class 05 shunter - 2503      CIDER QUEEN as industrial use

 

     

 

 

Hi Gareth

 

Thank you for the information that the next batch are on their way. The number range indicates they are the ScR based large cab with square windies version. https://www.flickr.com/photos/86734924@N03/9541946514/in/photolist-fxbYgd-srBhBK-9T3jCX-gYrnHg-oJzFng-hMDfmY-hMDfhE-hMDf9U-hMDfsE-poWcWu-hMDf9y-hMDf9d-phKtCX-i8EJ4G-i8EJ41-9y9USG-oVn75W-oXnbG5-oEU7Mt-oEUoTh-9ya1cC-9y9WBG-aM5kBa-q7aXSh-fwWGAB-qczr2U-qS2sWw-qB5mDo-qRmNZS-qBcwjx-qBcwhZ-uRdf1W-qKCZev-rs6h8Q-smNtxG-aM5krc-p168n7-oKCMoC-eCdbAy-uRFtr2-ex5rzo-nNVxiV-p52SDi-nf6hJy-p4Z3bG-qdH72w-eCa12g-rGqrvX-tUEMg1-rBQ8Me

[Swindon 123]

Just to note

We've had an e-mail stating that the A variant is due to be shipped imminently

 

These are the locos with the smaller diameter wheels, round buffers and shallower buffer beams

 

 

Class 05 shunter - 2500      [/size]D2574 BR green[/size]     

Class 05 shunter - 2501      [/size]D2578 BR green with wasp stripes (Preserved)[/size]

C[/size]lass 05 shunter - 2502      [/size]D2581 BR green with wasp stripes[/size] 

Class 05 shunter - 2503      [/size]CIDER QUEEN as industrial use[/size]

 

 

No they are not. They are the same as the ones already released but the Scottish batch which had a slightly different cab window and radiator designs. See below.

 

Paul J.

[Trains4U]

No they are not. They are the same as the ones already released but the Scottish batch which had a slightly different cab window and radiator designs. See below.

D2578, 10 May 2009..jpg

 

Paul J.

 

I 'm happy to stand corrected.

 

I was quoting the information from Heljan

I'm not claiming to be an expert on 05s

[Swindon 123]

I 'm happy to stand corrected.

 

I was quoting the information from Heljan

I'm not claiming to be an expert on 05s

Not a problem. For whatever reason during the research and development of the model, Heljan always referred to the Scottish variant as the "A" type and the NE one as the "B" type. I think most people where under the impression, probably due to the original publicity photo showing one of the earlier low cab 05's, that the low cab loco was the "A" type and the large cab the "B" type.

 

Hopefully good sales off, and interest in, the Scottish & NE models being brought out might persuade Heljan to produce the two low cab variant's in the future. They have the basis of a chassis, which seems to be a nice runner, already in production.

 

Paul J.

[Porcy Mane]

 The only photo I have found of the cab controls in there original colours was the one below, which is an industrial loco but appears to be in something like the BR cab colours.

loco25.jpg

 

With regards to the wasp stripes, there where a number of variations over the years, the most prominent being that applied to some of the Scottish batch that where a lot more "pointier" than the others. See this photo, https://flic.kr/p/dwsyUrof D2581 to see what I mean. Others I've found like this include D2576, 2582,2584 and 2585. There may be others. Hopefully if the production goes correctly Heljans model of D2581 will appear in this style.

Thanks for that. I wasn't aware of the 05s with the more acute angle to the stripe. I'm doing D2594 as delivered and from photos I've seen it seems that the current batch of releases have their rear stripe position reversed and the front stripes in a different position for my prototype, so it will be out with the airbrush.

Seems like there was a lot of variation with the front end stripes on the Scottish Locos.

You'll probably have seen this image on the RCTS website taken at Thornton Junction in1968.

https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/diesels/?id=diesels/scottishhunslets

 

D2585and D2581 to the fore with totally different wasp stripes. I wonder if the variation was down the whim of the individual painter?

 

P

[Swindon 123]

Thanks for that. I wasn't aware of the 05s with the more acute angle to the stripe. I'm doing D2594 as delivered and from photos I've seen it seems that the current batch of releases have their rear stripe position reversed and the front stripes in a different position for my prototype, so it will be out with the airbrush.

Seems like there was a lot of variation with the front end stripes on the Scottish Locos.

You'll probably have seen this image on the RCTS website taken at Thornton Junction in1968.

https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/diesels/?id=diesels/scottishhunslets

 

D2585and D2581 to the fore with totally different wasp stripes. I wonder if the variation was down the whim of the individual painter?

 

 

 

P

Hello Porcy Mane, You are right that the wasp stripes seemed to be infinitely variable, especially the bonnet ones, Just looking at the RCTS photo you linked to shows the first three locos all having different styles of wasp stripe on the bonnet. The cab rears seemed to be fairly consistent, either being quite flat, the angle at the change of direction for the stripe being around 90 degrees, or the more "pointy" style. The transition of the stripes on the curve of the bonnet front to the bonnet side also differed. When D2578 was striped right back, all these things were noted and photographed. The curves on the transition on D2578 was rounded whilst photos of others show them to be much more angular. Below are some photos taken during the restoration of D2578, and more can be found in this Flickr album. https://flic.kr/s/aHsjFym4Sp

 

Here are some of the restoration photos.

 

 

 

 

 

Paul J.

[New Haven Neil]

Great photo thread Paul, thanks for the link.

 

You have mentioned she is hard to drive, would you care to expand on the technique for me please?  by PM if you wish to avoid taking the thread too far off topic!

 

Cheers

 

Neil

[Swindon 123]

Great photo thread Paul, thanks for the link.

 

You have mentioned she is hard to drive, would you care to expand on the technique for me please?  by PM if you wish to avoid taking the thread too far off topic!

 

Cheers

 

Neil

Hello Neil. Difficult to explain the idiosyncrasies of driving these locos. Seeing is believing/understanding just how difficult they can be on occasions. D2578 will sometimes co-operate and gear changes go smoothly, but on other occasion she will refuse to do so resulting in much crashing of gears. I will have a go at explaining the method required and to that end here are the BR driving instructions as issued for D2574-D2618 as issued in 1958, which may be worth going through first.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The BR instructions make it sound dead easy, pages 4 & 5 cover changing gear, up & down. To understand the finess required in doing so takes a little more understanding. To explain this you need to look at and to some extent understand how the gearbox works, as in the diagram below.

First the drivers controls. (Duplicated in reverse on the opposite side).

 

And now the Hunslet gearbox as fitted to the 05.

 

The gearbox is arranged as two pairs of gears in constant mesh with their counterpart and arranged so that two sliding dogs engages the gears as required in the sequence, 1st & 2nd using one dog, and 3rd & 4th the other dog. The gear wheels are constantly driven from the engine whilst the clutch is engaged. The sliding dogs are free to slide along the change gear shaft and engage inside the gear wheel as selected by the drivers control. The gears can only be selected in sequence up or down the gearbox. The key part is the input and output speeds of the gearwheels and the sliding dog when you require to change gear. The first movement of the drivers gear selector down the gate disengages the clutch and moves the sliding dog along the change gear shaft to the free position. Moving the gear selector back to the running position engages a shaft brake that, in theory, slows down the speed of the drive shaft from the engine, it no longer being driven by the engine, to a speed that, yet again in theory, allows the sliding dog to slide into the next selected gear without too much fuss when the gear selector lever is moved down the gate the second time. The problem is that getting this right is affected by a lot of variables. Failure to balance the input and output speeds results in a lot of painful sounds from the gearbox before the dog slides into position, or at worst the dog refusing to engage the gear at all. If that happens the only option is to stop the loco and start again from the beginning. A bit of a pain if you where trying to get into 4th gear. The second movement of the gear selector back up the gate, re-engages the clutch, as long as the gear change was successful. All this happens in a couple of seconds at most and if you get it right you can hardly notice a gear change except for the engine revs going to idle and back up again. If you get it wrong it sounds horrendous and as though the gearbox is going to fly apart. Things that affect a gear change are severe gradients and also double heading and the driving technique has to be adjusted to accommodate these things. We tried double heading when D2578 visited the Middleton Railway for its 50th birthday and double heading proved to be very difficult to get right. Going down the gearbox is even more hit or miss. I've been driving D2578 for 14 years now and still prefer to stop and start again rather that try to change down, as you usually end up at a stop anyway if it goes wrong. When trying to drive D2578 onto the lorry to go back to Moreton I was trying to control the throttle, sanders, brake, and gear selector with just two hands all at the same time. Fortunately I was able to se the emergency gear pedal to control the clutch. I likened it to trying to make a hill start with a 30T car on black ice. It took a lot of concentration. I haven't even got to the Drivers Safety Device with which these locos where fitted. They consisted of a small pedal by the left, or right foot, depending on which side of the cab you where, of the driver. This had to be depressed at all times. If not it applied the loco brakes, but because the gearbox was mechanical, unlike air operated gearboxes on most other shunters, and so impossible to disengage when the DSD applied, the DSD also shut down the engine as well as applying the brakes, as a means of stopping the loco moving. With the loco being difficult enough to drive as it is, the added complication of the DSD has resulted in it being isolated on a semi-permanent on D2578.

 

Anyone reading the above might wonder why we bother with such a complicated loco. Well I suppose it's just great fun to drive as it is so different. Also when she is in a co-operative mood she is very easy to drive and with very fine clutch control easier then our 03 & 04 to make delicate movements.

 

I hope you all haven't got to bored with the above ramble.

 

Paul J.

[New Haven Neil]

Bored? Oh no, I really enjoyed reading it - I am en engineer, or at least I was.  Very interesting indeed, more later, I have to go out for a curry.  HAVE to, you understand.!!

[PenrithBeacon]

I note that Heljan have not yet issued a variant with the early BR lion/wheel badge. Is his an omission or are they going to do one?

 

Regards

Edited August 1, 2015 by PenrithBeacon

[Clive Mortimore]

I note that Heljan have not yet issued a variant with the early BR lion/wheel badge. Is his an omission or are they going to do one?

 

Regards

Hi David

 

The lion riding the wheel badge was only seen on black liveried Hunslet 204hp locos. These were the locos with the smaller driving wheels and the lower height cabs. The two sub versions that Heljan have and are going to introduce were always green livery. At the moment Heljan do not seem to be doing them, a big pity as this version where painted black on introduction, then green, then had wasp ends painted on and one even got painted blue (and was the only one to have TOPS number). They also saw wider usage, they were East Anglian based when new, most went to the Liverpool area or Crewe later in their lives and the one that was painted blue spent quite a long service life on the Isle of White.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Clive Mortimore

[newbryford]

Thanks for that. I wasn't aware of the 05s with the more acute angle to the stripe. I'm doing D2594 as delivered and from photos I've seen it seems that the current batch of releases have their rear stripe position reversed and the front stripes in a different position for my prototype, so it will be out with the airbrush.

Seems like there was a lot of variation with the front end stripes on the Scottish Locos.

 

 

It seems to be a Scottish thing - the Barclay 204hp 0-4-0's (later Class 06) also have the acute stripes.

 

Cheers,

Mick