Les1952 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 The smaller-wheeled lower-cabbed version was also nearer to a good many industrial versions of the type. We can but hope Heljan's thinking takes them that far.... Les still waiting to get to test one in a model shop to buy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted August 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 2, 2015 It seems to be a Scottish thing - the Barclay 204hp 0-4-0's (later Class 06) also have the acute stripes. Cheers, Mick And the various North British 220hp 0-4-0s. Some of them had acute stripes on the rear of their cabs and others had upside down ones on the front. Must have been an early sign of Scottish independence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Hi David The lion riding the wheel badge was only seen on black liveried Hunslet 204hp locos. These were the locos with the smaller driving wheels and the lower height cabs. The two sub versions that Heljan have and are going to introduce were always green livery. At the moment Heljan do not seem to be doing them, a big pity as this version where painted black on introduction, then green, then had wasp ends painted on and one even got painted blue (and was the only one to have TOPS number). They also saw wider usage, they were East Anglian based when new, most went to the Liverpool area or Crewe later in their lives and the one that was painted blue spent quite a long service life on the Isle of White. Thank you Clive. Seems I'll have to go for a green one then, but next month! Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted August 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 2, 2015 OK, I have now had time to digest Paul's description of the gearbox and operation of. Very interesting, the constant mesh sequential gears are not totally unlike a motorcycle box, just a tad bigger.... The need to double de-clutch is locked in to the operation of the box, which they probably thought was a good idea, but many a bus enthusiast will tell you, not always necessary with someone really good with the box. Ah, Ok then.....LOL. Our little Hudson-Hunslets at Groudle can be changed up and down their whole two gears by those with mechanical sympathy. Whereas..... Thanks for the excellent description and diagrams Paul, absolutely superb, I hadn't realised how different these locos were, considering all 204's to be 'like an 03' Silly I know, but just one of those assumptions. Oh, and the curry (in the new curry house in Ramsey) was superb! I was 'spotted' today at Groudle by a visiting RMWebber as a result of the curry comment! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I did a 5 day field exercise in the snow at Moreton on Lugg during Basic training. It may be 30 years ago now, but will never forget that place! Many years ago, towards the end of 'The Troubles' I volunteered for an I.E.D. awareness operation at M.o.L - nowt to do with suspect packages, car bombs etc - rail borne rolling stock was my raison d'etre . Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon 123 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 OK, I have now had time to digest Paul's description of the gearbox and operation of. Very interesting, the constant mesh sequential gears are not totally unlike a motorcycle box, just a tad bigger.... The need to double de-clutch is locked in to the operation of the box, which they probably thought was a good idea, but many a bus enthusiast will tell you, not always necessary with someone really good with the box. Ah, Ok then.....LOL. Our little Hudson-Hunslets at Groudle can be changed up and down their whole two gears by those with mechanical sympathy. Whereas..... Thanks for the excellent description and diagrams Paul, absolutely superb, I hadn't realised how different these locos were, considering all 204's to be 'like an 03' Silly I know, but just one of those assumptions. Oh, and the curry (in the new curry house in Ramsey) was superb! I was 'spotted' today at Groudle by a visiting RMWebber as a result of the curry comment! On the gearbox on D2578 there are no shortcuts. You have to go up and down the gearbox in sequence. The interlocking doesn't allow anything else. Even with the loco at a stand, and even with the engine shut down, you have to go down each lever slot in turn, although you need to do it only once for each gear rather than twice at other times. You know you've done some work at the end of an 8 hour shift on one. (Almost as bad as 8 hours on a 66, but I digress). When up at the Middleton I had the fortune to have a drive of HE 1697 John Alcock (LMS 70510, and the gearbox was a lot easier to manipulate and take short cuts with. Many years ago, towards the end of 'The Troubles' I volunteered for an I.E.D. awareness operation at M.o.L - nowt to do with suspect packages, car bombs etc - rail borne rolling stock was my raison d'etre . Brian R Although most of what was the Northern part of the site where all the Nissen huts were and the "Train rescue" training was done has been dug up for sand extraction, we still find the odd spent, and sometimes live, blank bullets lying around, as the whole area, up to and sometimes including, the North & West main line was used for training. The odd "bunker" and slit trench can still be found in amongst the undergrowth. when clearing the site ready for quarrying the odd mysterious objects turned up from WWII tank track parts to live smoke bombs. Just to go off topic for a moment, as a few of you seem to know Moreton from days past here are a few before & after shots. The following shots where taken between 2001 & 2003, before the area was redeveloped into the Stone loading terminal for Tarmac. The views are taken from the point where the connecting MOD line from the N & W main line split between the North and South parts of the site. In the first three photos the South part is to the left and you are looking at what was left of the Northern Nissen Huts from the original American WWII build. A bit on the history of the site can be found here. http://htt.herefordshire.gov.uk/smrSearch/Monuments/Monument_Item.aspx?ID=27630 This shot was taken from 03145 whilst on safari in the North sidings. Yes there is track under that lot Here's a similar shot , taken from a spot roughly in the middle foreground of the second picture down, a couple of years later when the Stone terminal was being built. Another couple of shot across the North sidings just before they started to demolish the Nissen huts. The train used for hostage training used to be on a siding, lifted in this shot, to the middle right of the top picture Another a couple of years on taken looking south back across at the last remaining Nissen huts as sand quarrying starts Finally an aerial shot of the Northern part of the site about 5 years ago. The photo is looking just North of North West. North is indicated by the A49 road in the top left of the photo. Most of the photos above where taken from the bottom right of the photo, where the stone terminal is , and a train being loaded and disappearing off the photo in the bottom right corner on the connecting line to the main line at Moreton on Lugg signal box. The line round to the Southern part of the site curves from the bottom RH corner beneath the stone terminal to disappear into the trees bottom left. The Nissen huts in the top views where located where the large pool created by the sand extraction to the left of the photo. Even this photo is out of date as that pool has now extended down, almost to the track curving round to the south sidings. Sand extraction means that the field at the bottom of the photo Inside the arc of the curve of the track to the south sidings is now a large pool as well. Finally a link to a photo taken of the Northern part of Moreton camp on 25th April 1944 in the run up to "D-day". The fhoto was taken from roughly the middle of the Northern part of the large pool in the left of the aerial photo. http://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=3335 Well that's all for this particular "deviation" off topic. Back to 05's. Paul J. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
25901 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 D2587/2595 could start in 2nd gear and you could take short cuts. They also differ from D2578 as they have a lot more switches controlling the marker light The complete gearbox and final drive is one massive lump of metal in the light of day, the one out of D2607 was lying around at Bury in everybodies way for many a year Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon 123 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Finally got to see one of the models in the flesh at the Hereford Model Shop, (which now has the Scottish ones in stock). Very nice they look too. Wheels seem to set new standards in fineness. I know that Greg, D1047 has EM'ed one already to run on Shenston Road by the simple expedient of opening out the wheels to EM gauge. Although I haven't seen it running, he says it copes with all the various points and crossings on Shenston Road with no problem. Paul J. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Finally got to see one of the models in the flesh at the Hereford Model Shop, (which now has the Scottish ones in stock). Very nice they look too. Wheels seem to set new standards in fineness..... I saw a few in the cabinet at Hattons. It was the wheel profile which really stood out - I'd say that was as near as dammit RP25-88. The other thing that stood out was the price tag - we are now in the age of the £100 shunter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Who'll be the first to model the crumpled paper?: http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p580086503/hb0826ee#hb0826ee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 I saw a few in the cabinet at Hattons. It was the wheel profile which really stood out - I'd say that was as near as dammit RP25-88. The other thing that stood out was the price tag - we are now in the age of the £100 shunter. We are already there; Hornby Class 08 re-issues for 2015, announced last December, have an RRP of £119.99. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 47137 Posted August 8, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 8, 2015 I saw a few in the cabinet at Hattons. It was the wheel profile which really stood out - I'd say that was as near as dammit RP25-88. The other thing that stood out was the price tag - we are now in the age of the £100 shunter. I've put a micrometer across mine, they are 0.110 inches so I think it's partly an optical illusion because they do look really good. The age of the £100 shunter comes along with the age of really nice RTR wheels. - Richard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon 123 Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 (edited) I saw a few in the cabinet at Hattons. It was the wheel profile which really stood out - I'd say that was as near as dammit RP25-88. The other thing that stood out was the price tag - we are now in the age of the £100 shunter. I just did a quick total up for me to build an 05 myself to see if I could do better than £100. The Heljan model sets the bar high from the ones I've seen, so I would have to plump for the Judith Edge Kit at £57. Next comes wheels. Well I couldn't find any 3'9" of the right type, (if any at all) so would have to settle for incorrect ones in the Gibson range at £15. The running qualities on the Heljan model are superb, so to equal that I would plump for a High Level gearbox married up with one of their recommended motors which would be £35-£40, depending on the set up I chose. All that together already comes to £107-£112, and that's before I've even thought of the time to build the kit and make it work, then paint it and put transfers on, which will add more to the cost. That starts to make £100 seem reasonable for a ready to run loco that looks right and runs well out of the box. To answer a question posed a while back on converting one to EM. Here are a few shots of one running on Shenston Road. It was easy to convert using its existing wheels and doesn't have any problem coping with the various points and crossings on the layout. For more information on the conversion and some shots of the "Cider Queen" industrial version look at the recent page on the Shenston Road layout thread here. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/85490-on-shenston-road-a-look-at-the-Heljan-05-in-em/page-6&do=findComment&comment=1978881 Paul J. Edited to add link to Shenston Road thread. Edited August 8, 2015 by Swindon 123 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opelsi Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Got my Heljan model 05 'D2578' - a little gem indeed. However I have come across a potential issue and wondered if anyone else has noticed (DCC). Tested three chips on my ECoS and ESU decoder tester all of which ok: Gaugemaster DCC23 & DCC28 + Bachmann 36-554RA so happy they are working correctly. Tried them all in the 05 with the bonnet and cab off and got the same result - loco runs lovely, rear cab lights bright, nose lights incredibly dim to the point of being hardly noticeable even in a totally dark room. I was going to send the loco back to Liverpool but looking on Youtube at a review, though it is hard to tell on a video clip it appeared to be the same as on my model with the nose lights very very dim indeed. Has anyone tried their new 05 on DCC and either found similar or otherwise please? Many thanks! Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 (edited) the nose lights very very dim indeed. Has anyone tried their new 05 on DCC and either found similar or otherwise please? I think you'll probably find due to their design they are all similar with the rear facing cab lights bright and the nose lights considerably dimmer, whether on DCC or DC. The LED shine directly through the rear cab lights which are made from black plastic with a clear lens insert whereas the working lamps at the front are made from clear acrylic (painted black) which has a moulded light transmission "tail" that include a few sharp turns hence some loss of brightness. The way the rear of the front buffer beam is moulded along with some reflective tape goes some way in attempting to seal the light transmission tunnel that the tail runs through but light loss is a consequence. To my eyes the dimmer front light was more prototypical. I also dabbed some orange clear varnish on the white LED to take away the blueness. If you have a look at the photograph of the clear light sprue on the Howes website you'll see what I mean. https://howesmodels.co.uk/product/Heljan-class-05-sprue-e-clear-6/ You can click on the photo of the sprue a couple of times to enlarge it. HTH P Edit to fix broken link. Edited July 30, 2018 by Porcy Mane 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 I've put a micrometer across mine, they are 0.110 inches so I think it's partly an optical illusion because they do look really good. The age of the £100 shunter comes along with the age of really nice RTR wheels. - Richard. Just as well Heljan have stuck to RP25/110 . Things that are made more liable to fall off because a manufacturer deviates from standard to make it look pretty is not a good idea. Peco streamline is already coarser than is ideal , so don't dig the hole any deeper.... (Streamline being what 90%+ of these will run on...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon 123 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 For those of you who have bought the model of Heljan 2503, "Cider Queen", measurements for the positioning of the nameplates can be found here on the Shenston Road thread. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/85490-on-shenston-road-measurements-for-positioning-heljans-cider-queens-nameplates/page-6&do=findComment&comment=1980203Paul J. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonas Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Those of you that have already got their hands on one; what decoder are you using? Would the standard Bachmann 6 pin fit ok? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tractionman Posted August 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2015 Nice looking models, very tempted but first I checked out the life of D2574... Excellent inf on the Scottish Hunslets at: www.rcts.org.uk/features/diesels/?id=diesels/scottishhunslets and D2574 and its movements in particular: www.rcts.org.uk/features/diesels/loco.htm?id=diesels/D2574 Thought this might be of interest/use to others. cheers, Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Those of you that have already got their hands on one; what decoder are you using? Would the standard Bachmann 6 pin fit ok? Given a choice I'd go for one of the smaller Digitrax decoders- far more reliable and only a couple of pounds dearer. Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted August 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2015 I've got a tiny DCC concepts decoder in an 03 which I plan to try in my 05 (the 03 doesn't run well enough to use). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators SteveCole Posted August 14, 2015 Administrators Share Posted August 14, 2015 The Heljan Class 05 Shunter is reviewed by BRM editor, Ben Jones, in the new September issue of BRM. Here are a couple of the pictures from the review. The September issue is on-sale now, either in shops or as a Digital Edition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted August 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 14, 2015 (edited) Those of you that have already got their hands on one; what decoder are you using? Would the standard Bachmann 6 pin fit ok? I successfully installed a Lenz Silver plug in Chris Edited August 14, 2015 by Gilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted August 15, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 15, 2015 I've got a tiny DCC concepts decoder in an 03 which I plan to try in my 05 (the 03 doesn't run well enough to use). I've just tried fitting the DCC Concepts Zen ZN68 micro decoder. It is too long to fit in the decoder space when plugged in directly. I also tried using the 6 pin harness which came with the decoder. The harness will plug into the loco socket fine and fits into the decoder space. I was hoping this would enable me to then put the decoder on the cab floor. This way I could also fit the 'stay alive' in the cab too. Unfortunatly, the extra wires of the harness are too large to fit in the cable space, preventing the bonnet from going back on. It might be possible to fit it this way with a bit of cutting and filing of the cable channel, but I decided against this. I'll probably leave the 05 in my display cabinet until someone comes along with a sound chip which they will fit for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonas Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 I went for a Digitrax DZ126IN in the end - fitted perfectly and runs a like a dream. Thanks for everyone's suggestions! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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