Hornby P2

[JSpencer]

It needs 4 ft even if I run the loco by itself! The middle 4 drivers had to have there flanges trimmed back so that they did not foul each other. The Ks kit came with Gibson (I think) wheels which were not solid enough and replaced by Romfords. Tender has the original kit wheels, which you can see have rusted a little after 20 years.

 

Any RTR manufacturer wanting to fit pizza cutter wheels would have a hard job!

 

Hornby has faced quite an engineering challenge with this model. After this kit, I did 2 simpler kits (Q1 and Q) before attacking the W1 which has certain challenges but not as many as the P2.

 

On tenders I can only but agree.

[rodger5591]

I wonder why some sort of compensating drawbar isn't used on locos to give closer coupling and the ability to traverse tight curves?

We get it on coaches and Bachmann used an "H" shaped drawbar on the Southern "N" class loco to do just that.

 

Keith

 

I agree also Keith. But such things should spell "opportunity" to a small business, as should the whole "design clever" idea. I'm sure if an after market company could produce a well designed adjustable drawbar that fitted existing RTR models without too much carving of plastic, it would be a good seller, particularly if it was associated with the kind of superdetailing kits that Brassmasters already make.

 

I wish there were more of the Brassmasters kind of detailing kits. Its quite a faff to search around from multiple suppliers to get all the bits and pieces you need to model a particular loco at a particular time. Even harder if you don't live in the UK and can't get to shows - you have to try to figure out how to reach the only supplier who makes what you need but who has a "no response to emails/no phone calls" business communication policy!

 

Whatever we may think of "design clever", it definitely represents opportunity for small businesses. If I was younger, I would start a small business that sold detailing packs, using parts bought from the existing after-market suppliers. Not just for existing models, but as soon as Bachmann, Hornby et al announced their new 4mm ranges each year, I would research all the major detail variations of their new offerings, buy up the bits n pieces that are already available from various sources, assemble them into era specific kits and sell them on eBay as the models are released (which at present is a very movable feast I know, but we are promised improvement on that score). If a particular part wasn't available, it would be worth considering commissioning someone to make it if there was the demand, or even commissioning resin/3D printed body shells to create demand.

But alas .. too old for that now. Perhaps opportunity knocks for someone else ..?

[JaymzHatstand]

Rodger makes a very valid point about detailling kits, I picked up the Brassmasters A3 and Western sets at Warley, and after an initial browse they do look like some enjoyable projects. The military modelling world is very well served with such things, and most plastic kits have detail set available from several sources in either brass osin, or a combination. One of the main players, Eduard, have a vast catalogue which covers PRE-PRINTED brass cockpit interiors to full detail upgrade sets. I've often thought that its the main area that the model railway world could learn from.

 

Cheers

 

J

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I wonder why some sort of compensating drawbar isn't used on locos to give closer coupling and the ability to traverse tight curves?...

Little developed in the UK because it is only a very few tender locos that need it, I would suggest. Modelling ER steam means tackling some of the longest UK prototypes, an all flanged OO pacific can have the tender at scale separation and still go round 24" radius. That has meant taking a file to the 'drag box' faces in the case of the Pepp A1 so that the front end bracket below the tender footplating is 'waffer thin'.

 

The typical UK tender loco arrangement of driving wheel near the chassis rear - under the cab - and a fairly short wheelbase six wheel tender means that most can be coupled up to scale separation and still get around at least 3rd radius. Folks are often sceptical about this, but try it. The 9F is a good example, and if it works on a 9F it's going to work on most things. You do have to remove any rigid moulded on or applied detail like intermediate buffers to allow the two vehicles to swing freely relative to each other: but this sacrificed detail is completely invisible, especially once a fall plate is added

 

I am definitely going to want a P2 someday (Bugatti streamlining, BR Green, you know it makes sense Hornby) and this sort of thing will not work there, especially as my rear truck wheelset will be flanged. I am minded to experiment with some of the Keen camming units supplied to retrofit coaches, obviously going to need fairly extensive mods to the drawbar element to suit their new role, as I ahve a handful of these spare. If no good, on to Ribu train or a similar HO aftermarket supplier

[rodger5591]

 

The typical UK tender loco arrangement of driving wheel near the chassis rear - under the cab - and a fairly short wheelbase six wheel tender means that most can be coupled up to scale separation and still get around at least 3rd radius. Folks are often sceptical about this, but try it. The 9F is a good example, and if it works on a 9F it's going to work on most things. You do have to remove any rigid moulded on or applied detail like intermediate buffers to allow the two vehicles to swing freely relative to each other: but this sacrificed detail is completely invisible, especially once a fall plate is added

 

Making some parts of an RTR loco of more flexible materials, such as molded rubber instead of rigid plastic, would also help e.g. for cab doors and also for footsteps, where they are likely to come in contact with ponies/bogies.

[brushman47544]

I don't think it's as simple as Hornby tooling a new tender on cost grounds. As has been mentioned on various threads, model train manufacturers in China are finding it difficult to keep a skilled workforce to attach all those separate handrails and fittings we want, so part of Hornby's reasoning I'm sure is that fewer details may be the only way to get models produced at all at present, like it or not.

 

One can only hope this situation changes in the future and when/if that time comes, the more detailed models see the light of day once again. But I'm not holding my breath.

[Andy Hayter]

Roger 5591

 

Just how do we make these part more flexible unless they are a separate moulding that has to be added later???  Which kind of defeats many objects

 

Sorry no quotes - Microsh1t 8.1 is not compatible with the quotes function on this site.

[rodger5591]

Roger 5591

 

Just how do we make these part more flexible unless they are a separate moulding that has to be added later???  Which kind of defeats many objects

 

Sorry no quotes - Microsh1t 8.1 is not compatible with the quotes function on this site.

Hi Andy

On many RTR steam models, hard plastic (and often overly thick) front footsteps and cab doors are supplied as separate items to be fitted by the purchaser. But to avoid fouling the bogie, the footsteps have to be fitted too far forward and too far out compared to prototype. If the loco and tender are properly close coupled, the cab doors have to be unrealistically bent inwards or foreshortened. Comet/Brassmasters et al produce metal replacements which are much thinner, and their cab doors can be made to swing, but if not carefully adjusted after each time you handle the loco, the cab doors can still catch against tender standards even on Peco medium radius turnouts and cause a derailment. It seems to me if these are already items that the user has to fit, then why not mould them out of very thin latex/rubber. Painted and weathered, they would look the same as metal. Rodger.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I have carried out the test suggested by 34C and the best I got was 65g for a Bachmann Class 66.  The best of my steam locos was a Hornby 61xx at 45g.  The new Hornby Star only managed around 20g.  It seemed that older locos were better than new ones.  The test was made on a programming track with Peco code 100 track, thoroughly cleaned beforehand.  Other things being equal (weight, number of drivers) It is all down to the coefficient of friction between wheel and rail and I think wear of the wheel surface over time increases the friction.

 

On the layout, the Star is the worst for wheel slip of all my tender engines.  I'm surprised that Tony Wright managed 8 coaches....

 Missed reading this post when it first went on. It's the relative values obtained by your own tests that are relevant. My set up certainly isn't NPL calibrated, so no surprise that there could be a very significant offset in our results.

 

One of the things I learned by testing was that out of the box many RTR locos pull poorly relative to their weight, with a very large variation. Give them a few hours running time and the tyres polish up nicely among other things, and traction improves. I only measure once some hours of running have been accrued.

 

Same effect applies on a smaller scale to nickel silver rail track. You get better traction from it with running hours. I was surprised by this some decades ago, when much extending a long used layout. Ran a test train onto the first new section to try it out, and the loco gradually slipped to a stand on the new rails. Tried several other trains; heavier trains were slowed significantly, lighter trains just sailed through. Probably wouldn't have noticed this effect if the test train selected had been a light one. It was simple chance that the maximum load job was handy, and this effect thereby revealed.

[Bon Accord]

I knew one bloke who used to clean his rails and wheels with fine sandpaper, he reckoned it improved adhesion.

[Oldddudders]

I knew one bloke who used to clean his rails and wheels with fine sandpaper, he reckoned it improved adhesion.

The traditional argument against abrasives is that they do a fine job of taking off dirt - but in doing so leave striations in the rail surface which then harbour further dirt, so the process becomes endless. Chemical cleaning is the recommended alternative, with Isopropyl Alcohol a favourite brew.

[Coldgunner]

Is there any news as yet to indicate when the P2 will ship?

[Dunsignalling]

Hi Andy

On many RTR steam models, hard plastic (and often overly thick) front footsteps and cab doors are supplied as separate items to be fitted by the purchaser. But to avoid fouling the bogie, the footsteps have to be fitted too far forward and too far out compared to prototype. If the loco and tender are properly close coupled, the cab doors have to be unrealistically bent inwards or foreshortened. Comet/Brassmasters et al produce metal replacements which are much thinner, and their cab doors can be made to swing, but if not carefully adjusted after each time you handle the loco, the cab doors can still catch against tender standards even on Peco medium radius turnouts and cause a derailment. It seems to me if these are already items that the user has to fit, then why not mould them out of very thin latex/rubber. Painted and weathered, they would look the same as metal. Rodger.

You can get postcard sized sheets of rubber for repairing cycle inner tubes, grey/black finely ribbed on one side but a reddish colour on the other but it will take paint.

 

Good for cab doors, even better for fall plates.

 

John

[mkwolf1877]

Is there any news as yet to indicate when the P2 will ship?

Hattons says on or after 1st Jan. don't know how reliable this is but they had 16th Dec for the Duke & got some on 23rd so hopefully info is quite reliable. Maybe one of the traders on here might know more!

[Colin_McLeod]

There is a facility on the Hornby site to be notified when this (or any other item) is in stock.

[Mike70]

Hattons says on or after 1st Jan. don't know how reliable this is but they had 16th Dec for the Duke & got some on 23rd so hopefully info is quite reliable. Maybe one of the traders on here might know more!

 

I rang Hornby this morning and they said there was still no firm delivery date.

Hattons probably just put on or after 1st Jan when Hornby put delivery back to 2014.

[Dunsignalling]

I rang Hornby this morning and they said there was still no firm delivery date.

Hattons probably just put on or after 1st Jan when Hornby put delivery back to 2014.

They seem to have put that on almost everything.

[Ian Hargrave]

All you need is patience and the cry 'Sail Ho!'

[Colin_McLeod]

We have waited decades. What's another few weeks?

[manna]

G'Day Gents

 

Money's ready, I'm ready, minds set, SWIMBO don't know.................how long can it last !!!

 

manna

 

Merry Christmas all

[melmerby]

I notice that the release date for R3207 has now appeared on Model Railways Direct: 08/05/14!

 

Keith

[Guest spet0114]

I notice that the release date for R3207 has now appeared on Model Railways Direct: 08/05/14!

 

Keith

 

Excellent - gives the old bank account a chance to recover after the Great Gathering fiasco....

[Hilux5972]

As long as it is correct detail wise then the wait will be worth it.

[paul2001]

April 28th now for main version

[mkwolf1877]

April 28th now for main version

Yes that & the Railroad version