Modelling a traditional parcels train

[eastwestdivide]

September 83, and a "mostly narrow" SR parcels train at Headcorn, including that rare beast, a clean SR B van. Look how much the BG at the front of the train sticks out compared to the 73 and the SR vans.

Interesting alignment where the platform loops start on the long straight between Tonbridge and Ashford.

 

 

Blowing it right up, I'd say the ends of the blue B van are blue:

Edited January 31, 2013 by eastwestdivide

[hmrspaul]

Thanks, Pete, that seems to confirm information that I'd had previously that, certainly in B.R. days, the ends were painted black.

 

David

Unlikely, the black ends was earlier before air spray painting became common practice. http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/srpmv/e341aefa

 

Paul Bartlett

[eastwestdivide]

And a counter-example to the mixed-bag trains everyone's so fond of, from April 83 at Leicester, a 37 with humungous rake of GUVs on the goods lines and a 31 with a BG and 3 GUVs on the main.

 

[DavidLong]

Unlikely, the black ends was earlier before air spray painting became common practice. http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/srpmv/e341aefa

 

Paul Bartlett

 

That was what I suspected, Paul. For the Southern vehicles may I hazard the following as the painting sequence:

Pre-1948 Southern Railway carriage green sides with black ends

1950-1958 BR Crimson sides with black ends

1958-1965/6 Southern Region carriage green sides with black ends

1965/6 onwards BR blue sides and ends

When did air spray painting start to become common? Some time in the 1960s?

I'm assuming that it was unlikely that any of them received BR maroon.

The above is my supposition but I would appreciate any more definitive information.

 

David

[IWCR]

Brush  painting  carried  on  a  lot  longer  than  many  would  think.

I  would  be  surprised  if  any  of  the  ex  SR  van  designs  were  spray  painted  as  a  norm.

They  are  a  fiddly  design  with  external  steel  angle  framework,  this  is  akward  to  spray  with  many  nooks  and  crannies  to  reach.  Cerrtainly  all  the  ones  obtained  by  the  IOW  had  been  brush  painted.  Some  would  have  been  painted  late  70's

The  design  also  makes  them  unsuitable  to  be  put  through  a  carriage  washing  plant  hence  the  very  filthy  condition  many  were  in. 

 

Pete

[hmrspaul]

Brush  painting  carried  on  a  lot  longer  than  many  would  think.

I  would  be  surprised  if  any  of  the  ex  SR  van  designs  were  spray  painted  as  a  norm.

They  are  a  fiddly  design  with  external  steel  angle  framework,  this  is  akward  to  spray  with  many  nooks  and  crannies  to  reach.  Cerrtainly  all  the  ones  obtained  by  the  IOW  had  been  brush  painted.  Some  would  have  been  painted  late  70's

The  design  also  makes  them  unsuitable  to  be  put  through  a  carriage  washing  plant  hence  the  very  filthy  condition  many  were  in. 

 

Pete

I wasn't suggesting these were spray painted, but the specifications were altered to permit easier spray painting. The van I referred to earlier clearly shows a green end on a PMV. I thought we had been down this route before and established when black ceased being used for the ends of NPCCS, certainly before the introduction of blue in 1965.

 

Painting is really difficult - as you suggest hand painting continued for a long time - I saw plenty of brush strokes on stock in the 1970s and 80s. However, the instructions I have for repainting WAGON stock for June 1959 has instructions for 4 different methods of applying paint - I don't understand what any of them were. They were

 

OB - Oleo Resin Brushing Process

OS - Oleo Resin SPRAYING Process

QD - Synthetic Resin Process

R - Chlorinated Rubber Process.

 

Sometimes there is no difference in the instruction, othertimes it appears a different paint was available for spraying or not.

 

Paul Bartlett

[Michael Delamar]

R1546.  Darlington Bank Top. May,1964. by Ron Fisher, on Flickr

[Clive Mortimore]

Another one of those ex LMS ambulance coaches.

[DavidLong]

I wasn't suggesting these were spray painted, but the specifications were altered to permit easier spray painting. The van I referred to earlier clearly shows a green end on a PMV. I thought we had been down this route before and established when black ceased being used for the ends of NPCCS, certainly before the introduction of blue in 1965.

 

 

Paul Bartlett

 

Sorry, Paul, I must have missed this discussion. Could you point me at where I will find the conclusions.

 

TIA

 

David

[TheSignalEngineer]

I wasn't suggesting these were spray painted, but the specifications were altered to permit easier spray painting. The van I referred to earlier clearly shows a green end on a PMV. I thought we had been down this route before and established when black ceased being used for the ends of NPCCS, certainly before the introduction of blue in 1965.

 

Painting is really difficult - as you suggest hand painting continued for a long time - I saw plenty of brush strokes on stock in the 1970s and 80s. However, the instructions I have for repainting WAGON stock for June 1959 has instructions for 4 different methods of applying paint - I don't understand what any of them were. They were

 

OB - Oleo Resin Brushing Process

OS - Oleo Resin SPRAYING Process

QD - Synthetic Resin Process

R - Chlorinated Rubber Process.

 

Sometimes there is no difference in the instruction, othertimes it appears a different paint was available for spraying or not.

 

Paul Bartlett

Oleo Resin is the old fashioned stuff used in paints, it grows on trees - or in them to be more correct, and has been used for hundreds of years. Synthetic or Alkyd resins are used for the same purposes in many oil-based paints nowadays.

 

Chlorinated Rubber paints more likely to be used for specialist purposes as they are somewhat more resistant to acid and alkali but not solvent attack than other paints but are not so hard wearing, and do not retain gloss or colour so well, especially outdoors. They are often used in swimming pools.

[bubbles2]

 

 

 

R1546.  Darlington Bank Top. May,1964. by Ron Fisher, on Flickr

 

Slightly unrelated question but is it ok to post a picture from  Fickr which is not your own? I see you have accredited to the owner so does that make it ok?

 

Thanks in advance for any guidance on this.

Edited February 2, 2013 by bubbles2

['CHARD]

One from the great Flickr collection of Ron Fisher:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/train-pix/8432787522/in/photostream/

A bit of invisible ink from me there, given the debate over post 160 of Mike's! 

[johnw1]

Another one from my collection

 

1976

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/6016590213/

[Leander]

Another one of those ex LMS ambulance coaches.

 

I managed to pick up a pair of sides for the D2130 BG converted from Period 1 corridor stock from Gary Wells (247 Developments) at Doncaster on Saturday. By comparing the etches with published drawings of P1 stock, it looks to me as though the type depicted on the etch is rebuilt from a BTK, the panelling, layout of windows and doors match up pretty well. I await to be proved wrong!

 

Another way to distinguish between the D2129 and D2130, beside the inward/outward opening doors, appears to be the width between the roof ventilators. On the D2130 they look to be more closely spaced, whilst on the D2129 they are wider apart. The drawings in LMS Coach Vol 3 bear this out, however these are little more than sketches. The number of roof vents also appears to be random, with six, seven or eight on each side depending on the van concerned. A photo taken from above would be somewhat useful.

[Michael Delamar]

Slightly unrelated question but is it ok to post a picture from  Fickr which is not your own? I see you have accredited to the owner so does that make it ok?

 

Thanks in advance for any guidance on this.

 

yes, its not posting the photo and then crediting which would not be ok, its posting the embedding link from flickr so that the photo appears on a forum with the description under it. the flickr owner has allowed embedding so its ok, if he had disabled embedding from his end then all that would appear is a link. you will note if you click on the photo it will take you to flickr, a photo that is posted on this site wouldnt.

it is frowned to quote a photo or link with a photo again so it appears twice. best to delete the photo link when quoting.

[Michael Delamar]

I like the parcels being unloaded on the left.

 

Hi-Res R0365 by BarkingBill, on Flickr

['CHARD]

Interesting surroundings for a fresh Blue Fruit D:

 

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=42149

[Southernman46]

and the 12t van to its' left with one freshly painted door.................

[Dunsignalling]

If modelling the 60s then a fair amount of pre-nationalisation stock was still in use. Big-4 BGs as well as things like GWR siphons and assorted CCTs add plenty of variety. I think the main key for this period is simply to avoid uniformity as the pic at the top of the thread demonstrates.

 

Just out of interest, how many vehicles can we identify? My main interest is the western so my guesses may well be wide of the mark. Working back from the loco

 

1. ?

2. CCT, maybe SR?

3. Mk1 BG

4. MK1 GUV

5. MK1 GUV

 

Any better offers?

One addition and one correction.

 

1. Is a LMS 4-wheel CCT, kits for two types available from Parkside and possibly the type Hornby have announced this year.

 

2. Is SR but is a BY van with guards compartment, produced by Hornby but not current. Parkside kit is available.  

 

John

[Dunsignalling]

I like the three 5-planked Highs at the front, each carrying a container; put that on a layout and see how long you'd have to wait for a call of 'That's WRONG'

This seems to have been fairly common and I always assumed it was done simply because a Conflat was not on hand when needed.

 

However, I was once told by an 'old hand' that it was sometimes done deliberately for security reasons, the 'High' wagon preventing the end of the container being opened.

 

John 

[Dunsignalling]

Lima CCT needs new w irons as those moulded are accurate in what should be there but not necessarily the right size! ABS used to do a fine Whitemetal replacement, which I would assume is still current. Some floor chopping will be required to fit 14mm wheels, the model has always been fitted with 12mm or less.

 

New buffers would also be welcome. The body for its age holds up well, the roof can benefit from new vents again available from a few sources.

 

Can't recall if CCT should have window frames or not?

 

Abs also do some nice wma battery boxes and other gubbins.

 

Ian

I have one about three quarters finished with a new chassis based on the floor and solebar mouldings from the Parkside LNER Extra long CCT kit which is probably the simplest way to get the van sitting correctly on 14mm wheels.

 

Most of the underframe detail on the Lima model is actually pretty good so I cut up the chassis and re-used as much as I could; the various bits need a bit of plasticard packing to bring them to the correct height in relation to the solebars.

 

Mine has cast vents and buffers plus SEF Flush glazing but I understand there is a laser cut glazing set available these days.

 

I still have a couple of jobs outstanding; the solebar gussets (the task I keep putting off!) and the brake gear.

 

I did one of the LMS bogie CCTs some years ago and have since refurbished it. This was one of Lima's better efforts apart from the BR bogies. The Mainline LMS ones I originally fitted became worn and I have recently replaced them with the Bachmann equivalent.

 

The other bits that need doing are the buffers, coupling hooks, roof vents, and flush glazing.  Suitable bits are available from ABS, MJT, Comet and SEF but I can't remember exactly whose I used for what. I left the remainder of the chassis alone except for fitting better brake wheels (Cambrian Models plastic ones) and my own preferred Kadee couplers mounted in Roger Keen close-coupling units.

 

I picked up a second one (mint and boxed) very cheaply at a swapmeet last year and this one will get the same treatment plus some body tweaks to replicate surviving remnants of the ersatz panelling these vehicles had when built.

 

Apologies for not posting photos - my laptop doesn't want to play ball for some reason.

 

John

[Hugh Flynn]

Hi

one of my photos taken at Church Fenton in the 80,s

Hugh

[hmrspaul]

Interesting surroundings for a fresh Blue Fruit D:

 

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=42149

Remarkable in how clearly the dark brown (BS 3-039) of the "underparts" shows up.

 

Paul Bartlett

[Michael Delamar]

long and short parcel trains on the western region

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64518788@N05/8500151560/

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64518788@N05/8444307952/

[Fat Controller]

Is the second vehicle a Siphon J? I wasn't aware they'd lasted that long.