Modelling a traditional parcels train

[westernviscount]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

I make it Fruit D/mk1 CCT/LMS CCT/Gresley BG/PMV or Southern CCT/2x mk1 BG/Siphon G.

Hi Johnster. Could the Gresley also be a Thompson matchboard? Also, is there another 4 wheeler behind the siphon? I cannot tell what it is by the roof profile. 

[03060]

14 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I make it Fruit D/mk1 CCT/LMS CCT/Gresley BG/PMV or Southern CCT/2x mk1 BG/Siphon G.

 

I agree ... but isn't there another vehicle behind the Siphon G, possibly a SR 12t van by the roof profile ?

Edited October 28, 2023 by 03060
Posted at the same time as @westernviscount

[NZRedBaron]

Mild question, but does anyone have any pictures for pre-Nationalisation parcels trains? I want to try and get a lookie in for what might might be appropriate.

[Dunsignalling]

14 hours ago, westernviscount said:

Hi Johnster. Could the Gresley also be a Thompson matchboard? Also, is there another 4 wheeler behind the siphon? I cannot tell what it is by the roof profile. 

 

I think you may be right on both counts, the LNER BG does look rather flat-sided. There's not enough of whatever is behind the Siphon for definite identification though.

 

Taller than the Siphon, which narrows it down a bit; it also looks short, so may just be a Vanfit. If it is, to me, the roof doesn't look flat enough for ex-LMS, too flat for ex-GWR, wrong shape for SR and probably too high for BR. My best guess would therefore be ex-LNER.

 

John

Edited October 28, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[Trestrol]

7 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

I think you may be right on both counts, the LNER BG does look rather flat-sided. There's not enough of whatever is behind the Siphon for definite identification though.

 

Taller than the Siphon, which narrows it down a bit; it also looks short, so may just be a Vanfit. If it is, to me, the roof doesn't look flat enough for ex-LMS, too flat for ex-GWR, wrong shape for SR and probably too high for BR. My best guess would therefore be ex-LNER.

 

John

One of these a Deal sided BG.

http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=1038

[Chas Levin]

On 27/10/2023 at 20:52, westernviscount said:

Hi Johnster. Could the Gresley also be a Thompson matchboard? Also, is there another 4 wheeler behind the siphon? I cannot tell what it is by the roof profile. 

 

22 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

I think you may be right on both counts, the LNER BG does look rather flat-sided.

 

Well spotted: I took it for a Gresley but following your suggestion and on closer inspection, the flat sides - and in particular the absence of a turn-under - make me think it's almost certainly not a Gresley.

Which makes sense because with the photo being "very close to the end of steam on the SR" I'd thought at first sight it was unusually late for a Gresley BG.

Nicely varied train though.

[Oldddudders]

Pic would be 1966 at the very earliest. Worting Junction was part of the 10.7.1967 Bournemouth Electrification scheme, and the juice rails are in place, as well as the white substation or track-paralleling hut on the right. It all looks good to go. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

On 28/10/2023 at 12:08, Dunsignalling said:

 

I think you may be right on both counts, the LNER BG does look rather flat-sided. There's not enough of whatever is behind the Siphon for definite identification though.

 

Taller than the Siphon, which narrows it down a bit; it also looks short, so may just be a Vanfit. If it is, to me, the roof doesn't look flat enough for ex-LMS, too flat for ex-GWR, wrong shape for SR and probably too high for BR. My best guess would therefore be ex-LNER.

 

John

 

17 hours ago, Trestrol said:

One of these a Deal sided BG.

http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=1038

 

2 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

 

 

Well spotted: I took it for a Gresley but following your suggestion and on closer inspection, the flat sides - and in particular the absence of a turn-under - make me think it's almost certainly not a Gresley.

Which makes sense because with the photo being "very close to the end of steam on the SR" I'd thought at first sight it was unusually late for a Gresley BG.

Nicely varied train though.

 

It should be easy enough to identify if it is a deal sided van, I believe these had 9' wheelbase bogies as opposed to the 9' 6" of the Gresleys, should be clear enough to tell!!!!

 

Mike.

[Flood]

2 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Which makes sense because with the photo being "very close to the end of steam on the SR" I'd thought at first sight it was unusually late for a Gresley BG.

 

Gresley BGs lasted on every day parcels use until late 1977.

 

As others have already said, it looks like one of these to me (other side):

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Flood

[Chas Levin]

Mind you, I first thought that was a guard's ducket on the side, which was partly what made me think 'Gresley': anyone know what that apparent protruberance on the side actually is?

[Nearholmer]

3 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

white substation or track-paralleling hut on the right. It all looks good to go. 

Worting Junction is a sub, and it looks to me as if the transformers haven’t been delivered yet.

 

I’ve got a large set of photos of both electrification work underway and passing trains, taken by a former colleague who oversaw part of the job  in 1966/67, and this scene looks very much as they do. He didn’t date them precisely either, so no help in that sense!

Edited October 29, 2023 by Nearholmer

[hmrspaul]

And my not very good photo from January 1968 of the side with the lookout ducket https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerparcels/e264c10c5

 

A 1941 build Gresley in March 1978, Diag 260 (I mis-identified as 245) although Longworth has it cond. in 1976. Possibly being held for departmental use, which doesn't appear to have happened. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerparcels/e13df6c0c

 

Paul

[31A]

27 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

Mind you, I first thought that was a guard's ducket on the side, which was partly what made me think 'Gresley': anyone know what that apparent protruberance on the side actually is?

It is a ducket!

 

LNER full brakes (and the brake compartments of passenger coaches) only had them fitted on one side.  In picture above of the blue one, it will have been on the side away from the photographer.  Although the post war steel panelled ones more usually known as "Thompson" vans (Diagram 344) didn't have any duckets at all.

 

See pictures on my thread "Trainspotting at Finsbury Square" of the models I've just finished building.

[Chas Levin]

4 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

And my not very good photo from January 1968 of the side with the lookout ducket https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerparcels/e264c10c5

 

A 1941 build Gresley in March 1978, Diag 260 (I mis-identified as 245) although Longworth has it cond. in 1976. Possibly being held for departmental use, which doesn't appear to have happened. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerparcels/e13df6c0c

 

Paul

 

4 hours ago, 31A said:

It is a ducket!

 

LNER full brakes (and the brake compartments of passenger coaches) only had them fitted on one side.  In picture above of the blue one, it will have been on the side away from the photographer.  Although the post war steel panelled ones more usually known as "Thompson" vans (Diagram 344) didn't have any duckets at all.

 

See pictures on my thread "Trainspotting at Finsbury Square" of the models I've just finished building.

 

Thanks Paul and Steve!

 

I admit to spending less time than I probably should in browsing your photos online @hmrspaul and I must also blush slightly @31A at having failed to recognise the similarity with your recent/current builds 😳.

 

I don't quite understand the way RM Web's 'Followed Content' alerts work, Steve: I follow your thread and have the alerts enabled for a daily update of new content, but I hadn't received notifcation of the latest posts including the photos of the finished coaches - I shall enjoy having a look now though!

[31A]

5 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

I don't quite understand the way RM Web's 'Followed Content' alerts work, Steve: I follow your thread and have the alerts enabled for a daily update of new content, but I hadn't received notifcation of the latest posts including the photos of the finished coaches - I shall enjoy having a look now though!

Thanks Chas, I don't know either, but glad to know I'm not the only one!  I gave up on that facility a while ago and tend to just view what comes up on the first pages of each topic.  Which is why I don't always keep up with your Workshop as well as I might!

 

[Southernman46]

To add some further comment - the TX at Worting Sub is at the other end of the building and out of sight (as they were small - only 1.5MW ISTR) also the conductor rail tops show signs of use, i.e. they are grey and not rust brown.

Also this photo appears in the Basingstoke Shed thread and that train is photographed coming back and the rear vehicle in the up direction is now missing - the Siphon is leading - mysterious.

[montyburns56]

Bristol to Crewe Mail, via Cardiff 1993

 

 

[montyburns56]

Nottingham 1974 by Geoff Dowling

 

 

[Ian Smeeton]

 

I hope that the stove was working!

 

Regards

 

Ian

[montyburns56]

Someone posted this picture in the thread for the Bachmann 31, but I was wondering if anyone might know or guess what is the lettering on the MK1 BG?

 

 

[Flood]

It looks like it's got a departmental number (ADB....., etc) so a trawl through a departmentals book is needed.

[nigb55009]

Bachmann produced a model of a Mk1 BG numbered ADB975612. The vehicle was olive green and carried the wording

" To work between Derby Loco BREL and WR Old Oak Common HST Depot". Olive green was used  for Departmental vehicle

 which was later changed to BR Blue. Could the photo show this vehicle after a repaint? Another photo on Flickr shows the

vehicle at Didcot, it also carries the wording "HST ENPARTS", on the opposite end to the number.

Edited February 12 by nigb55009
more info added

[nigb55009]

A further search has found more information about the vehicle. 

It was originally built as a standard Mk1 BG, numbered 80922. It was later converted to a TLV ( Trailer Luggage Van) for use with the Southern Region

Motor Luggage Vans (MLV), which were used on boat trains to Dover Marine, later Western Docks and Folkestone Harbour. During 1976 the TLVs were

withdrawn from passenger service and converted to Enparts vans at Swindon and Horwich Works. Later some, including 975612, became a Tool Van for use with the

for use with  Breakdown Trains. ADB975612 was allocated to Cardiff Canton.

[montyburns56]

21 hours ago, nigb55009 said:

Bachmann produced a model of a Mk1 BG numbered ADB975612. The vehicle was olive green and carried the wording

" To work between Derby Loco BREL and WR Old Oak Common HST Depot". Olive green was used  for Departmental vehicle

 which was later changed to BR Blue. Could the photo show this vehicle after a repaint? Another photo on Flickr shows the

vehicle at Didcot, it also carries the wording "HST ENPARTS", on the opposite end to the number.

 

Thanks, I presume that you mean this picture.

 

 

[nigb55009]

Yeah, that's the one. There are other pictures of it as a tool van. Most of the windows were plated over during the conversion.