Great Gathering A4 Collection

[Ed-farms]

I have had several emails from Hattons today, Dominon and Union from the Great goodbye set are due in on or after the 7th March with the other 4 arriving on or after the 4th April. Better get saving folks.

[Daddyman]

Bought a Great Gathering set last week: two scuffed outer sleeves; dipped RH boiler handrail on 60007; oily deposit all over Bittern's RH smokebox area which when cleaned off reveals substandard paint finish; tender filler cap, coal insert and tank vents missing (nowhere in the box) on Bittern and the tender body unscrewed and loose in the packaging. Hornby offered 3 weeks to "repair" the tender but would not touch the locos, only offer money back, which would have left me with 4 out of 6, negating my whole reason for buying the collection. Clearly, they have no plan b with these A4s - despite well documented faults with their QC process.

 

Hornby's attitude seems to be:

 

"Let's see what we can get away with. Although this is a special edition, let's not take any special care over it, just print a fancy sleeve and employ our usual sloppy QC. There's no way we're eating into our profits spending money on staff to check 510 sets @10 minutes each - the customer can waste his time chasing us if he has a problem and then we'll just offer money back. Who cares if that means he then only has 4 models out of a set of 6?" 

 

This seems to me to display utter contempt towards the customer.

 

The lesson I've learnt is try before you buy. I would certainly not buy the Great Goodbye set without seeing each and every model out on a shop counter first. I notice that most sets on ebay say "brand new, unopened". I dread to think what awaits the buyer. Caveat emptor...

 

Otherwise, apart from the QC issues I was struck by how awful these models look, not having bought a Hornby A4 for a while. The satin-matt finish, the nameplates, the distance between tender and loco, the awful unpainted plastic driving wheels, and the one-type-fits-all bogie wheels have always bugged me. I don't even run a Hornby A4 until I've replaced the nameplates and bogie wheels, stripped the chassis down to paint the drivers, and burnished the body with thinners and a toothbrush. Granted, when all that's done, they're the best A4s available, as 2750 said above. However, the GG A4s look to me worse than ever - more matt than ever, and the nameplates are certainly a step back.

[Paul Cram]

Bought a Great Gathering set last week: two scuffed outer sleeves; dipped RH boiler handrail on 60007; oily deposit all over Bittern's RH smokebox area which when cleaned off reveals substandard paint finish; tender filler cap, coal insert and tank vents missing (nowhere in the box) on Bittern and the tender body unscrewed and loose in the packaging. Hornby offered 3 weeks to "repair" the tender but would not touch the locos, only offer money back, which would have left me with 4 out of 6, negating my whole reason for buying the collection. Clearly, they have no plan b with these A4s - despite well documented faults with their QC process.

 

Hornby's attitude seems to be:

 

"Let's see what we can get away with. Although this is a special edition, let's not take any special care over it, just print a fancy sleeve and employ our usual sloppy QC. There's no way we're eating into our profits spending money on staff to check 510 sets @10 minutes each - the customer can waste his time chasing us if he has a problem and then we'll just offer money back. Who cares if that means he then only has 4 models out of a set of 6?" 

 

This seems to me to display utter contempt towards the customer.

 

The lesson I've learnt is try before you buy. I would certainly not buy the Great Goodbye set without seeing each and every model out on a shop counter first. I notice that most sets on ebay say "brand new, unopened". I dread to think what awaits the buyer. Caveat emptor...

 

Otherwise, apart from the QC issues I was struck by how awful these models look, not having bought a Hornby A4 for a while. The satin-matt finish, the nameplates, the distance between tender and loco, the awful unpainted plastic driving wheels, and the one-type-fits-all bogie wheels have always bugged me. I don't even run a Hornby A4 until I've replaced the nameplates and bogie wheels, stripped the chassis down to paint the drivers, and burnished the body with thinners and a toothbrush. Granted, when all that's done, they're the best A4s available, as 2750 said above. However, the GG A4s look to me worse than ever - more matt than ever, and the nameplates are certainly a step back.

If you are that unhappy return all 6. After all they were sold as a collection not individual models.

[G-BOAF]

Bought a Great Gathering set last week: two scuffed outer sleeves; dipped RH boiler handrail on 60007; oily deposit all over Bittern's RH smokebox area which when cleaned off reveals substandard paint finish; tender filler cap, coal insert and tank vents missing (nowhere in the box) on Bittern and the tender body unscrewed and loose in the packaging. Hornby offered 3 weeks to "repair" the tender but would not touch the locos, only offer money back, which would have left me with 4 out of 6, negating my whole reason for buying the collection. Clearly, they have no plan b with these A4s - despite well documented faults with their QC process.

 

Hornby's attitude seems to be:

 

"Let's see what we can get away with. Although this is a special edition, let's not take any special care over it, just print a fancy sleeve and employ our usual sloppy QC. There's no way we're eating into our profits spending money on staff to check 510 sets @10 minutes each - the customer can waste his time chasing us if he has a problem and then we'll just offer money back. Who cares if that means he then only has 4 models out of a set of 6?" 

 

This seems to me to display utter contempt towards the customer.

 

The lesson I've learnt is try before you buy. I would certainly not buy the Great Goodbye set without seeing each and every model out on a shop counter first. I notice that most sets on ebay say "brand new, unopened". I dread to think what awaits the buyer. Caveat emptor...

 

Otherwise, apart from the QC issues I was struck by how awful these models look, not having bought a Hornby A4 for a while. The satin-matt finish, the nameplates, the distance between tender and loco, the awful unpainted plastic driving wheels, and the one-type-fits-all bogie wheels have always bugged me. I don't even run a Hornby A4 until I've replaced the nameplates and bogie wheels, stripped the chassis down to paint the drivers, and burnished the body with thinners and a toothbrush. Granted, when all that's done, they're the best A4s available, as 2750 said above. However, the GG A4s look to me worse than ever - more matt than ever, and the nameplates are certainly a step back.

Sounds a not nice experience. Did they say why they would not touch the locos? and did you ask what you were supposed to do with an incomplete set if two models were refunded?

 

I was informed by a ratailer, and indeed it has been noted above in this post, that the locos WERE inspected in margate. Furthermore, they were actually reboxed in new boxes to ensure the boxes at sale were 'unopened' for the collector for whom such opening would devalue the model. I do find it ironic (in general, not in this case) that a collector would rather have an unopened and potentially faulty model, than one that is checked, but still...

[Daddyman]

After all they were sold as a collection not individual models.

My point exactly! 

 

I'd gladly exchange them for a full replacement set with matching certificate numbers, but there seem to be none left in the country.

[Daddyman]

Sounds a not nice experience. Did they say why they would not touch the locos? and did you ask what you were supposed to do with an incomplete set if two models were refunded?

 

I was informed by a ratailer, and indeed it has been noted above in this post, that the locos WERE inspected in margate. Furthermore, they were actually reboxed in new boxes to ensure the boxes at sale were 'unopened' for the collector for whom such opening would devalue the model. I do find it ironic (in general, not in this case) that a collector would rather have an unopened and potentially faulty model, than one that is checked, but still...

They said they couldn't do anything about the locos as there were no replacements. I didn't ask what I was supposed to do with an incomplete set, no.

 

These models were clearly not inspected by anyone who knows anything(and possibly not inspected at all); otherwise, they'd have spotted the faults and missing parts.

 

Oddly, the tank vents in the tender have simply never been fitted. I wondered if this is now standard with the new dumbed-down Hornby.

[iankemp]

The cynic in me says..

 

they received 1024 of each model in margate in blank boxes

They placed 512 in Great Gathering boxes and shipped them out.. the other 512.. well you know what they are..

 

Yeah more rip offs the Great Gathering but in guise of The Great Goodbye. Hornby are a complete disgrace. Cannot deliver on the date of release when they say a date, Shoddy workmanship on the models. They should have replacements on standby for when something like this happens. I am glad i saved my money by not spending it on them. I won't be buying the "The Great Goodbye" set either. 

[Dunsignalling]

If you are that unhappy return all 6. After all they were sold as a collection not individual models.

If enough do that and the faults are equally distributed between the models, Hornby will be able to make up a few good sets!

 

They'll just need to swap the certificates around so the numbers match.

 

John

[G-BOAF]

The cynic in me says..

 

they received 1024 of each model in margate in blank boxes

They placed 512 in Great Gathering boxes and shipped them out.. the other 512.. well you know what they are..

 

 

Yeah more rip offs the Great Gathering but in guise of The Great Goodbye. Hornby are a complete disgrace. Cannot deliver on the date of release when they say a date, Shoddy workmanship on the models. They should have replacements on standby for when something like this happens. I am glad i saved my money by not spending it on them. I won't be buying the "The Great Goodbye" set either. 

 

Unlikely I say. if this were the case, we'd have seen the Great Goobye sets announced for immediate released as the 2-BILs were in 2013. This would also be useful as it would be timed with the actual event at Shildon.

Given the lead time for production runs, I would say the Great Goodbye run was commissioned as a response to the quick sell out of the previous collection.

 

As it is, the sets are not due until April. This suggests that at best, production will be after the Chinese New Year (i.e early feb), or even later to allow them to incorporate any 'great goobye' changes. w4rrn (post #726 this thread) mentioned about possible 90mph plates for bittern?

[iankemp]

This is why production should be brought back to the UK not only will it give people jobs here, it should also stop this whole having to wait for shipping and having to go through customs. Hornby are so stupid, think nothing but profits for the big wigs of the company!

[robmcg]

Ian you KNOW that it would make your models cost many hundreds of pounds each if the manufacturing and all stages of production was done in the UK.

 

Your post about the shoddiness of the GG collections and avowal to not buy them is of course your right, too.

[Guest 2750]

If production of Holmby products was brought back to UK, it would most likely see A4s, costing around £200-£250 mark.

[G-BOAF]

That may be a bit simplistic...

 

there isn't 1 production line.. but several, it is highly likely there are boxes of A4 bodies made in their thousands as blanks.. but the chassis would be cast separately in a different facility.

Meanwhile motors etc are probably bought in the tens of thousands etc.

All the different sources, and there could be a dozen places, will make they bits in bulk/batches alongside similar products for other industries and shipped to the assembly line for storage.

Thats not the end of it.. those bodies need to be painted etc ...

Only when all the bits are there can assembly begin.

 

This is mass production on an "add value" principle.. each party does their bit in bulk and sells it on to the next link in the chain. (for example several companies could be involved in the manufacture of a chassis though to a running/powered block.. each one "adds value" and sells it to the next.

The final assembly warehouse in Shenzhen holds inventory until all the bits are there.

 

As the first batch arrived on the edge of Christmas, maybe by air,.. its reasonable a second batch would probably follow by sea.. 

 

3000 A4s will take a couple of weeks to make, so December-Now, and maybe even started to be made 6 months ago.

However Chinese mass production approach means 6000 A4s were probably made all at once as much as 9+ months ago..Hornby's decision to do a Great Goodbye wasn't a Great Surprise to the chinese… if it was a recent decision, and production slots are limited, then I doubt we will see it in April.

 

if that was the case then completion would be before Chinese New Year, January 31st .., shipping a few weeks later, 30 days at sea puts delivery in Margate in Mid March, customs etc means in time for April.

 

Though I still sit with my cynical thought.. made in 2013, sitting in a warehouse in Margate, as they need time to market the model.. Hornby are not like Riko Intl used to be, and so will announce the sale, let it simmer and reveal all in March following the Shildon event…. I remember many years ago being shown around Margate and seeing boxes of  stock of "r codes" for stuff unannounced… that later was announced the following January and still didn't hit the shelves for months later.

your logic makes sense, what doesn't is the ability to incorporate any 'Great Goodbye' livery variations...

I agree it is likely is that compoenets are already manufactured, and we are left with painting and final assembly.

However production slots could have been reserved in advance, for manufacture early in the new year, hence release in April. Just becasuse the haven't been made yet doesn't mean we won't see them in April. And just as the Great Gathering were flows in, there's no reason why the Great Goodbye won't be flown in as well.

 

If they have already been made, then statistics say they will have the same 'livery deviations' as the Great Gathering models. Let all hope that's not the case.

[G-BOAF]

If production of Holmby products was brought back to UK, it would most likely see A4s, costing around £200-£250 mark.

For comparison: China made A4 c.£150.

Professional refinishing (including insured postage) to correct livery irregularities induced in China: £60-75.

 

Total locomotive cost £225...!

So actually, aside from those who are very skilled at renumbering and refinishing, for us lesser mortals who desire accuracy, we will already be paying that... Unless china get their act together and finish models accurately. Food for thought.

[The Stationmaster]

For comparison: China made A4 c.£150.

Professional refinishing (including insured postage) to correct livery irregularities induced in China: £60-75.

 

Total locomotive cost £225...!

So actually, aside from those who are very skilled at renumbering and refinishing, for us lesser mortals who desire accuracy, we will already be paying that... Unless china get their act together and finish models accurately. Food for thought.

 

The question of accurate finish really leads to a very simple next step - accurate specification.  And then checking samples against that specification to ensure they match it before production is authorised to start.  In reality it doesn't make much difference where the factory is if the specification is not exact in the first place.

 

the next stage is quality control to ensure consistency in maintaining output to match the spec but doing that rigorously would increase prices I suspect.  Getting the spec right is simply a component of the initial research and design.

[Andybish]

Has anyone received their Great Gathering cabinet yet? I sent off my vouchers on 31st December expecting delivery within 28 days,but nothing has arrived to date. I contacted Picture Pride Displays who are charged by Hornby to fulfil these orders and they appear to be in total chaos stating at one point in the conversation that it may be another 8 weeks! When I pressed them they said they would try and send within the next 2 weeks. We shall see, they have had a year to plan for this but now appear surprised by the sudden demand!

[Cy Lindercocks]

Has anyone received their Great Gathering cabinet yet? I sent off my vouchers on 31st December expecting delivery within 28 days,but nothing has arrived to date. I contacted Picture Pride Displays who are charged by Hornby to fulfil these orders and they appear to be in total chaos stating at one point in the conversation that it may be another 8 weeks! When I pressed them they said they would try and send within the next 2 weeks. We shall see, they have had a year to plan for this but now appear surprised by the sudden demand!

 

 

Seems to be chaos as stated. I sent my cheque off well before Christmas and it has not even been presented yet!

[Robin Brasher]

Hornby Bittern at Highley Station at Isle of Purbeck Model Railway Group meeting on Friday 7 February.

[Blue Max]

At least two full sets of Great Gathering A4's on sale at the Doncaster exhibition today.

[S.A.C Martin]

Okay, I would like to hear from those citing the costs of A4s above the £200 mark to actually itemise their figures. Show us exactly why (with tooling already made and in existence for this particular model in Hornby's range) it would cost £200 plus. I keep reading this sound bite on here but no one has actually given us reasons as to why or a proper break down of figures.

 

Some Airfix kits and Humbrol paints are now manufactured in the UK away from their previously overseas bases and the prices have not risen by upwards of 100% or more as many people have claimed for the Hornby A4 Pacifics.

 

I'm not by any means saying the costs wouldn't rise - I am sure they would - but I am sceptical given the tooling already exists for these models that the total RRP would rise by upwards of 100% or more if they were manufactured here (given there would probably be higher levels of automation, and a hell of a lot less costs in shipping and JIT manufacturing than before).

 

Particularly the £250 quoted - where are you getting the figures for that Tom, if I may ask?

[mightymac]

Shildon will have a few of the Great Goodbye sets when they are available. The full set will come together in April, and I know that Hornby have tweaked a bit! The first sets sold from there had no complaints at all. If anyone wants one of those give them a call.

They also have a limited number of ' transatlantic sets ' featuring Eisenhower and Canada in BR livery. Boxed Bachman set . Not on sale until the event next week though but look good. £250 I believe.

 

Looking forward to seeing all 6 together on home turf!

[valeofyork]

Wonder whether Hornby have held back some of the current concession-only Railroad Mallard models to sell at the event? Would seem a sensible thing to do!

[mightymac]

Wonder whether Hornby have held back some of the current concession-only Railroad Mallard models to sell at the event? Would seem a sensible thing to do!

 

Shildon gift shop and website already have some. And something different to arrive next week I'm told!

[Guest spet0114]

...And something different to arrive next week I'm told!

 

A container of Liliput ones, secreted at Margate as an emergency backup?

[Dan Hill]

I wonder if the 4464 models will have its Mallard style plaques. She had them unveiled at Barrow HIll on Friday and have been fitted to mark its 3 90mph runs last year.