Great Gathering A4 Collection

[Ian Hargrave]

Please do elaborate. I' ve not seen anything ill informed.

Post 623--- with reference to etched plates...if you ask

[pete55]

Post 623--- with reference to etched plates...if you ask

 

Can't say I see anything ill informed there.

the plates on the loco appear wrong, and from what can be seen of the etched plates in the bag, they appear to have the same spacing.

There seems to be too much blank space before and after the letters at each end of the plates in comparison with the real thing? Nit picking I know!

[scoomby]

Hi all.

I just got my full set of 6 x Great Gathering Class A4 locos today complete with all certificates with the same number 31.  I have opened them up and couldn't spot any defects.  They all look fine, especially Sir Nigel :-)

Is there anything to look out for in particular?

Thanks in advance

Steve

[Ian Hargrave]

Can't say I see anything ill informed there.

the plates on the loco appear wrong, and from what can be seen of the etched plates in the bag, they appear to have the same spacing.

There seems to be too much blank space before and after the letters at each end of the plates in comparison with the real thing? Nit picking I know!

That is hardly sufficient evidence for the individual concerned to start negative rumblings on Hornby's offerings....seen through a layer of flimsy polythene.

I accept that you are not entirely content with your example but I can only reiterate that I am happy with my pair.The problem is that there are those who will give vent to the benefit of their (secondhand) opinions with negative consequences.Kernow are tonight advertising two cancelled orders,quite possibly as a result of the expression of unfavourable comment expressed somewhere.Now,you yourself introduced the term 'nit-picking'...I did not..An awful lot of people out there won't buy these but it won't stop them expressing armchair opinions,secondhand.There are already such comments on this thread.

[Guest 2750]

That is hardly sufficient evidence for the individual concerned to start negative rumblings on Hornby's offerings....seen through a layer of flimsy polythene.

I accept that you are not entirely content with your example but I can only reiterate that I am happy with my pair.The problem is that there are those who will give vent to the benefit of their (secondhand) opinions with negative consequences.Kernow are tonight advertising two cancelled orders,quite possibly as a result of the expression of unfavourable comment expressed somewhere.Now,you yourself introduced the term 'nit-picking'...I did not..An awful lot of people out there won't buy these but it won't stop them expressing armchair opinions,secondhand.There are already such comments on this thread.

 

Dear Ian, 

I don't think the negative feeling is for the sake of it, but from the evidence shown here, examples of which are.

 

1. LNER examples with numberings too high on the buffer beam

2. Mallard tender lettering not alined with the cab side numbers

3. BR examples have there number bracket far too high as is the lamp iron

4. Wonky over head warning transfers

5. Reports of wrinkling of the varnishing on some examples.

6. Reports the models have been handled extensively before the customer has received them.

 

At the price these have been sold at, it would seem fair to say the customer is entitled to a top speck model, and the fact is all of the above have been correct on previous A4s produced by Hornby.

 

To show I'm not anti Hornby at all, the Hornby A4 in my opinion is the best 4mm A4 out there (with maybe the Finney kit as the exception). I'd rather have a Hornby A4 over a Golden Age Models version any day!

[pete55]

That is hardly sufficient evidence for the individual concerned to start negative rumblings on Hornby's offerings....seen through a layer of flimsy polythene.

I accept that you are not entirely content with your example but I can only reiterate that I am happy with my pair.The problem is that there are those who will give vent to the benefit of their (secondhand) opinions with negative consequences.Kernow are tonight advertising two cancelled orders,quite possibly as a result of the expression of unfavourable comment expressed somewhere.Now,you yourself introduced the term 'nit-picking'...I did not..An awful lot of people out there won't buy these but it won't stop them expressing armchair opinions,secondhand.There are already such comments on this thread.

 

Ian,

my nit-picking comment was aimed at UoSA's plates alone.....from the evidence seen with my own eyes in pictures posted on this thread.

 

Secondhand opinions? By that I presume you make the assumption that I am commenting from my armchair, not having purchased the article in question. You would be wrong in that assumption.

 

The points itemised by 2750 above are valid criticism on the evidence provided by pictures in this thread. As was pointed out earlier, Hornby got it superbly correct with their A4's in the past.

 

I would hazard a guess that many of the cancelled orders with retailers are more likely due to the need to find approx  £1,000 of disposable income at probably the most expensive time of year.

[iankemp]

Why buy Fox nameplates when, as someone has pointed out above, they come with etched nameplates to apply, if you so wish?

 

P.S. There is no such word as alot, if you must use  this phrase (when much is so much better) then it is a lot.

 

And if you look at the picture with the nameplates in they are plastic which you push in! And if you are going to nit pick my spelling then your below standard! I suffer from a bit of dyslexia! So go do one!

[G-BOAF]

Couple of comments.

Ill informed - um, no. All comments I make are based on detailed comparison with prototype photographs, both on the internet and many hundred of pics of the preserved locos, especially 2008 reunion, and July and October 2013, along with a number of books covering these locos. I fully accept and respect that some (many) will be happy with these models. I also appreciate that the build quality on some will be higher than others. This variation itself is problematic - why should two people paying the same have such variations in quality?

 

That some people are happy does not detract from the fact that there are clear and systematic issues that have been listed a few posts ago. In summary main points are: Mallard 4468 and LNER letter heights and mismatch. Bittern (same to much lesser extent), 4468 and 4464 nose numbers far too high almost overlapping with lower lamp iron rather than between it and the buffers, cods mouth lamp irons too high on ALL models (not just BR ones, which do have a correspondingly too high numberplate), OHL flash issues. Again as notedc a few posts ago Hornby have got it SO RIGHT in the past, so it is very difficult to accept these lapses.

 

Nameplates - yes the spacing on 60009 is wrong on the printed plates, there is certainly too much space before and after the wording. I have not commented on this in the past as I do not regard it as an issue worth getting het up about (but some might); is is VERY fixable with a set of etched replacement plates for anyone worried. The things to get concerned about are those not easily fixable without significant skill, pluck, and a decent airbrush.

 

Bittern access hatch. Yes there should be a hatch under the plate. I don't know what it is fore, presumably lubricator access of some sort? When built the A4s didn't have them. a bolted plate was fitted in some cases (including at some point 4489 I believe), before the hinged hatch. It is my understanding that the valanced tooling does not allow for the access hatch. Clearly no slide was designed, and it would obviously wrong to have it perminantly there, as that would preclude many LNER liveried A4s. This is something we are going to have to compromise over, or sorce an etched replacement (I believe PH Designs produce an etch?).

 

My two pence worth.

[robmcg]

Hi all.

I just got my full set of 6 x Great Gathering Class A4 locos today complete with all certificates with the same number 31.  I have opened them up and couldn't spot any defects.  They all look fine, especially Sir Nigel :-)

Is there anything to look out for in particular?

Thanks in advance

Steve

 

At last someone pleased with a model, (uniquely in this thread so far??) which may be criticised for some detail errors and one recorded smudge on paint and reported fingermarks on some others.

 

Front number plate on BR versions is about 2mm too high, as is the top lamp bracket. 

The alignment of L N E R on the tender of one of the blue locos is not perfectly in line with a cab numberplate, I think.

Lower middle lamp bracket may be too low, or numerals on number may be too high on some LNER versions. 

 

Some paint details are not as per 2013 but are in 2009 SPEC.

 

Somebody found an inspection plate missing under the nameplate of one version, but I haven't checked this.

 

Sorry but I cannot take seriously most complaints at even full RRP., especially if they are straight, clean and all there.

[robmcg]

...

 

That some people are happy does not detract from the fact that there are clear and systematic issues that have been listed a few posts ago. In summary main points are: Mallard 4468 and LNER letter heights and mismatch. Bittern (same to much lesser extent), cods mouth lamp irons too high on ALL models (not just BR ones, which do have a correspondingly too high numberplate), OHL flash issues. Again as notedc a few posts ago Hornby have got it SO RIGHT in the past, so it is very difficult to accept these lapses.

 

Nameplates - yes the spacing on 60009 is wrong on the printed plates, there is certainly too much space before and after the wording. I have not commented on this in the past as I do not regard it as an issue worth getting het up about (but some might); is is VERY fixable with a set of etched replacement plates for anyone worried. The things to get concerned about are those not easily fixable without significant skill, pluck, and a decent airbrush.

 

Bittern access hatch. Yes there should be a hatch under the plate. I don't know what it is fore, presumably lubricator access of some sort? When built the A4s didn't have them. a bolted plate was fitted in some cases (including at some point 4489 I believe), before the hinged hatch. It is my understanding that the valanced tooling does not allow for the access hatch. Clearly no slide was designed, and it would obviously wrong to have it perminantly there, as that would preclude many LNER liveried A4s. This is something we are going to have to compromise over, or sorce an etched replacement (I believe PH Designs produce an etch?).

 

My two pence worth.

 

While there is value in finding these errors, and you have every right to be disappointed if Hornby got them right in the past, it is likely that this is in a new factory with new workers  and to my mind for the price the models are still SUPERB.

 

Skilled modellers could fix the lamp bracket and number plate height, but not the numbers.

 

To me the biggest 'error' in the A4 model and which truly stands out is the lower cylinder cover, and that is not easy to fix either, and has been there since day one of the current models.

[iankemp]

And if you look at the picture with the nameplates in they are plastic which you push in! And if you are going to nit pick my spelling then your below standard! I suffer from a bit of dyslexia! So go do one!

 

The post i am on about that contains the picture of the plates is #609, they are NOT etched and i am sorry if this gets up peoples noses a bit but if they are going to be limited editions they should be virtually the same loco but in 00 guage. All the defects are to noticable and the previous releases of the locos are much better. Hornby have let themselves down over this model. I am not going to waste my money on these nor the "The Great Goodbye" Limited Edition. I would rather purchase models that have got the right features and just rename and renumber them as well as putting detailing kits on. In the end they will look more like the loco they are supposedly representing!!! And yes i suffer from a bit of OCD.

[G-BOAF]

While there is value in finding these errors, and you have every right to be disappointed if Hornby got them right in the past, it is likely that this is in a new factory with new workers  and to my mind for the price the models are still SUPERB.

 

Skilled modellers could fix the lamp bracket and number plate height, but not the numbers.

 

To me the biggest 'error' in the A4 model and which truly stands out is the lower cylinder cover, and that is not easy to fix either, and has been there since day one of the current models.

We're going to have to agree to disagree Rob!

 

Regarding the lower cylinder cover, a theoretical improvement I have that you might want to try. I will be doing it when I get my A4s.

Assuming you're talking about the under-size cylinder end covers, and the lack of 'tumblehome' under the cylinder cladding, When combined with the 'rounded' bottom of the cylinders, you get an unslightly gap (as well as undersize covers). I had thought the lack of tumblehome was some sort of doggy fix to ensure the body could slide over the cylinders. I then realised it was necessary to get round model curves on the full valanced version without having a unsightly cutaway on full vallenced version. A compromise necessitated by trainset cures.

 

Anyway I digress. A potential improvement. Grab yourself an A3 cylinder moulding. remove the end cover. Cut off the outer edige of each cylinder moulding to reduce it to the same width as the A4 cylinder moulding (c1mm off each side). Build up the lower edge to square it off. This removes the gap between cylinder and bottom of casing. Slice as little off the cylinder end cover, or even merely thin out the outer edge to fit it over the front end of the streamlined casing (if that makes any sense).Refit cylinder end cover. Replace 'american' style valve slides on A3 with British style slides off A4 (the later are seperate parts on the A4 cylinders and wil break off (but be aware that some A4s had A3 forward valve slides, including 60010 on left hand side, still there under the cladding). Result theoretically should be that you have a 'squared off' cylinder bottom, but this SHOULD look less worse than the present 'gappy' effect. You will also have a more scale sized cylinder end cover.

 

Don't have time to do drawings now, nor have models to do a prototype. But when I finally get my hands on them, I will have a go and post results here. I have thought up this fix based on comparison of A4 and A3 cylinder mouldings.

 

Feel free to ask for clarification.

 

G-BOAF

 

EDITED - width reduction dimensions

[robmcg]

Thank you G-BOAF,  the cure in modelling for the cylinders is too tricky for me, I baulk at even taking a body off, for fear of damaging bits, but I modify my pictures appropriately. (or some say, inappropriately)

 

We might disagree about the importance of the errors in the GG set, but I do value your pointing out the errors.

 

Cheers,

 

Rob

 

[Guest Belgian]

Don't think much of the one in the last photo, they've mounted the front number plate and lamp iron too far down the nose and the centre headlamp has been stuck on at a strange angle...

 

I'd be a little disappointed at having paid full price for 60009, it sadly looks like another of Hornby's 'crumbling edge of quality',

 

Martin

That centre headlamp looks a bit overscale as well, and isn't a very good shape . . .

[Ian Hargrave]

The post i am on about that contains the picture of the plates is #609, they are NOT etched and i am sorry if this gets up peoples noses a bit but if they are going to be limited editions they should be virtually the same loco but in 00 guage. All the defects are to noticable and the previous releases of the locos are much better. Hornby have let themselves down over this model. I am not going to waste my money on these nor the "The Great Goodbye" Limited Edition. I would rather purchase models that have got the right features and just rename and renumber them as well as putting detailing kits on. In the end they will look more like the loco they are supposedly representing!!! And yes i suffer from a bIan,

Ian,as you have an issue with an image of etched plates,I have to tell you that both Dominion of Canada and Dwight D.Eisenhower have them included for fitting.....I have just re-examined mine.With regard to your comment that previous releases 'are much better' ,that is not correct.A year ago we had the release of Commonwealth of Australia,,,,remember that? Before expressing such trenchant and potentially damaging opinions I would suggest you go and look and get a hand on for yourself,if you have not already done so.

I do own a dozen or so Hornby A4's and I am speaking from experience.I saw my first A4 in 1950 and saw all of them to their demise in 1965.

[Ian Hargrave]

Ian,

my nit-picking comment was aimed at UoSA's plates alone.....from the evidence seen with my own eyes in pictures posted on this thread.

 

Secondhand opinions? By that I presume you make the assumption that I am commenting from my armchair, not having purchased the article in question. You would be wrong in that assumption.

 

The points itemised by 2750 above are valid criticism on the evidence provided by pictures in this thread. As was pointed out earlier, Hornby got it superbly correct with their A4's in the past.

 

I would hazard a guess that many of the cancelled orders with retailers are more likely due to the need to find approx £1,000 of disposable income at probably the most expensive time of year.

Yours was NOT the post to which I referred.I have NOT used the phrase 'nit-picking',incidentally.You regrettably chose to assume that.It would appear that 60009 is a primary target for criticism,I chose to purchase otherwise and am happy with mine.Please accept the fact that there have been postings to the effect that they are a disappointment ,the general tenor being....'I'm glad I'm not wasting my money on one'

[Mike at C&M]

Limited Edition certificates just arrived with us.

[60800]

I rather think the lack of quality of the locomotives has been surpassed by the lack of quality of the bickering on this thread.....

 

There's little point in me re-iterating the faults as they've been brought up multiple times already, but i suspect the majority of those who are saying the models are fine are those who have bought the full set and don't want to admit that they've just blown a grand on glaringly substandard models.

 

It's been noted that only experienced modellers can correct the defects - rubbish. A pot of chaos black (or whatever's replaced it), a fine brush, a toothpick, a sharp craft knife, a set of fox plates and a HMRS LNER pressfix sheet are all that's needed, and anyone on here can do it at the very least. The only reasons i'll be sending my 4489 off to TMC are because of how much the loco is worth and how notorious stainless steel LNER letters are to fit. If I get No.8 at some point, i'll be doing all the corrections myself

[micklner]

I rather think the lack of quality of the locomotives has been surpassed by the lack of quality of the bickering on this thread.....

 

There's little point in me re-iterating the faults as they've been brought up multiple times already, but i suspect the majority of those who are saying the models are fine are those who have bought the full set and don't want to admit that they've just blown a grand on glaringly substandard models.

 

It's been noted that only experienced modellers can correct the defects - rubbish. A pot of chaos black (or whatever's replaced it), a fine brush, a toothpick, a sharp craft knife, a set of fox plates and a HMRS LNER pressfix sheet are all that's needed, and anyone on here can do it at the very least. The only reasons i'll be sending my 4489 off to TMC are because of how much the loco is worth and how notorious stainless steel LNER letters are to fit. If I get No.8 at some point, i'll be doing all the corrections myself

Bit of a contradiction you say anyone can do it and then your sending yours to TMC for the same type of remedy . Stainless Steel Letters/Numbers are easy . Create a line using masking tape . Mark the postions of the letters on the tape, small dots of superglue on the letters and lay using tweezers . It is no harder than normal renumbering using decals. I look forward to your pictures of No 8 in due course too.

 

What is hard to do successfully is remove glued on parts and then succesfully hiding the left over glue mark , that is the real pain to achieve succesfully.

 

 

To achieve this a total repaint of Loco and tender was done as patch painting simply doesnt work epecially on the Garter Blue sections.

 

 

 

For all the crticisim of the Locos there have been only a few photos to base this on unless I have missed some ? It would be nice to see some more pictures, so far I have only seen Bittern , SNG and Union of South Africa.

 

The comment re Bittern missing the front access plate is hardly surprising as they were never advertised as new mouldings. SAC Martin is hopefully selling etched ones soon .

 

As they have been sold as limited collection items I wouldnt think many people paying £1000 would want to change anything on the models but keep them as they are faults and all. Their value would be seriously diminshed once altered.

[60800]

Bit of a contradiction you say anyone can do it and then your sending yours to TMC for the same type of remedy . Stainless Steel Letters/Numbers are easy . Create a line using masking tape . Mark the postions of the letters on the tape, small dots of superglue on the letters and lay using tweezers . It is no harder than normal renumbering using decals

 

It's not a case of a remedy being required, it's just my inherent stubbornness to get the loco as close to the real thing as possible, so the lack of relief in the the printed letters and numbers is not an issue that needs correcting, merely enhancing if that is what is required by the owner. I would try the masking tape method, but my main concern is that the printed letters and numbers may be slightly oversize. Couple this with my need to have the first boiler band sliced through (something where I'm only happy to have TMC do it) I may as well let them do the rest as it all falls under one price bracket. The only item I can see from photos that needs correcting on No.10 is the top lamp iron, and that will be done by myself in due course

[scoomby]

At last someone pleased with a model, (uniquely in this thread so far??) which may be criticised for some detail errors and one recorded smudge on paint and reported fingermarks on some others.

 

Front number plate on BR versions is about 2mm too high, as is the top lamp bracket. 

The alignment of L N E R on the tender of one of the blue locos is not perfectly in line with a cab numberplate, I think.

Lower middle lamp bracket may be too low, or numerals on number may be too high on some LNER versions. 

 

Some paint details are not as per 2013 but are in 2009 SPEC.

 

Somebody found an inspection plate missing under the nameplate of one version, but I haven't checked this.

 

Sorry but I cannot take seriously most complaints at even full RRP., especially if they are straight, clean and all there.

 

I will check later to confirm if I have the same faults.

 

I can take some pictures of any of the six locos and post them on here if anyone is interested.

 

Regards

 

Steve 

[micklner]

It's not a case of a remedy being required, it's just my inherent stubbornness to get the loco as close to the real thing as possible, so the lack of relief in the the printed letters and numbers is not an issue that needs correcting, merely enhancing if that is what is required by the owner. I would try the masking tape method, but my main concern is that the printed letters and numbers may be slightly oversize. Couple this with my need to have the first boiler band sliced through (something where I'm only happy to have TMC do it) I may as well let them do the rest as it all falls under one price bracket. The only item I can see from photos that needs correcting on No.10 is the top lamp iron, and that will be done by myself in due course

You should always remove original lettering and then redo the lettering, this  applies to decals and Steel lettering , either they are the wrong size or colour to match the originals. If Canada's Steel lettering  is the same as the Australia version then they are miles to big and being printed are flat not raised from the surface as the originals.

You dont need to cut the Boiler band add tape either side of the boiler band position on the etched plate and glue on. ( idea courtesy of Coachman on another thread).

Your money , been a lot cheaper to use a normal Mallard or other existing version of the A4.

[60800]

Admittedly, if my order wasn't at Hatton's discounted price, I would have cancelled it and sourced a Kingfisher or the anniversary No.7 as soon as the first delay was announced. The GG headboard is a nice little touch though, and it'll find itself in the scanner before long.

[Ian Hargrave]

Maybe we should retitled the thread "The Great Bickering".....

I picked up another South Africa from Waltons this morning and picked up my Gresley from the Post Office. Both are lovely. Obviously my first Africa was a poor one. It is on its way back to Hattons. So Rob will be pleased to know I'm a happy bunny now! I can deal with the minor plate and crest issues easily.

Waltons still have an Eisenhower and a Canada. Both looked immaculate. £145 a go, be quick or be....

Edit to add Canada is in the shop but not on website.

I am delighted that you finally had the result you wanted.I have just track-tested my pair ( Canada and Eisenhower ) after the customary finger tango with the dreadful plug and performance is the usual exemplary silky smooth.Good luck with Sir Nigel and South Africa...I have both but in other guises. Ian.

[w4rrn]

Maybe we should retitled the thread "The Great Bickering".....

 

I picked up another South Africa from Waltons this morning and picked up my Gresley from the Post Office. Both are lovely. Obviously my first Africa was a poor one. It is on its way back to Hattons. So Rob will be pleased to know I'm a happy bunny now! I can deal with the minor plate and crest issues easily.

 

Waltons still have an Eisenhower and a Canada. Both looked immaculate. £145 a go, be quick or be....

 

Edit to add Canada is in the shop but not on website.

Cheers for the 'Tip' I was quick and I've just been down to Waltons and picked up Dwight D Eisenhower, it is immaculate and it matches my TMC 60009 Union of South Africa superbly. I also purchased Dominion of Canada & Bittern models from Waltons yesterday and my Bittern came from Transport Models in Preston. May be I should look out for a GGath Sir Nigel Gresley to replace my ageing Bachmann one!