G-BOAF Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 Interesting. When I posted many pages ago comparing the numbering positioning with the Bachmann double chimney error on the V2 Green Arrow with a replacement body issued I was dismissed as making an unfair comparison (can't recall exact argument now). If this were Bachmann, I think it would be highly likely that replacement bodyshells would have been made, although in terms of detail and cost there is a difference in an EMU shell and a loco body. A thought - regarding the front numbers, I'd rather Hornby just left them off than put them in the wrong place. that can only be an improvement on what they have done, as those who are so bothered can easily correct without any lasting damage, and those who don't care will be just as happy. Removing the number from around the lamp iron will be difficult to do correctly, given some of the number will doubtless be 'sealed in' by the lamp iron glue... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I've been in touch with Simon Kohler. He has replied and I've forwarded photos of my own previous models including Hornby's Herring Gull below, and included prototype photographs in my reply (track on test track had warped, hence the tenders odd position). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted March 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14, 2014 I think you've missed the point I'm making John. I would happily have purchased multiples if the model had been correct. It's not, so I won't. I'm normally very happy to correct things on my models but not brand new ones which should be right from the get go. Is it only LNER modellers who are told this by other modellers - I wonder how GWR modellers in the Star thread would have liked being told effectively to put up or shut up given the issues outlined there? I do think Hornby have had a rough time of it and I want them to succeed. But - as I've said before (and nobody likes a soothsayer) you can't keep putting prices up and specifications down without alienating your core customers at some point. Add to that not producing your existing models to the correct specification and you're effectively throwing away your business. A few years back, a decoration error on the 2EPB led Bachmann to create replacement body shells - as I recall they did a fine job in making those available. This is the third time Hornby have made this entirely avoidable error - so it's a question of changing it going forward or offering replacement tender body shells to correct the error. The latter option is unlikely given the current manufacturing capacity or lack there of described elsewhere on this forum but the difference in approaches to errors between the major manufacturers never ceases to amaze me. Sounds like you and I are in general agreement but the crux of my argument is that, as you say, it is not the first time this error has occurred. If the models continue to sell, and Hornby are not inundated with complaints, they have no incentive to put it right (certainly getting it in the neck via RM Web hasn't worked so far.) The only parallel I have experienced was the error in the printed handrail on the Maunsell BCK. After ascertaining that they were getting replacement glazing produced, I sent my three to Margate and got them back rectified less than a week later. Has anyone asked Hornby about the possibility of this happening with this A4? As you say, the production of a batch of replacement tender bodies would rectify the situation but that might be more likely to happen if Hornby have several hundred of these locos lying unsold. If they have not, it suggests that there are enough A4 collectors out there who either don't know or don't care that they are wrong. That being the case, maybe they don't feel the need to cater for more demanding customers. I appreciate that limited editions exert a pressure to buy while you can but, personally, if they made a Southern loco with an error I wasn't capable of rectifying myself, I'd just not buy it. The survival of Hornby's business is their own responsibility, not ours and I certainly won't be buying unsatisfactory products just to keep them afloat. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 unfortunately I fear there are enough people out there who just 'don't care' or are so enthralled by the 'incredible detail, etched handrails (sic) etc' they fail to notice obvious errors. check out the reviews of the LNER Commonwealth of Australia on Youtube. There are a few such videos, and no one points out the obvious errors, namely the horrid cabside number size. While this attitude of either ignorance or lack of attention to detail persists, what incentive is there to get things right? This said, I do wonder why people who will 'accept/ignore' such errors want to spent over £100 on a highly detailed loco. By the sounds of things they'd be happy with a railroad model. This is not a slight against those on here who are prepared to correct the models themselves, or going to renumber them anyway. But as I said, it shouldn't cost Hornby any more to do it correctly, so there's no excuse not to, other than giving some factory machine operator in Hong Kong better instructions, and maybe even a photo of the real thing (its not like they are hard to get hold of!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
durham light infantry Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 But as I said, it shouldn't cost Hornby any more to do it correctly, so there's no excuse not to, other than giving some factory machine operator in Hong Kong better instructions, and maybe even a photo of the real thing (its not like they are hard to get hold of!) This being the same Hornby who published photos of the Fish Van and LMS CCT, then produced completely different models. Or the same Hornby who think the 'S' prefix on a Van B stands for Scotland! Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 One final thought re the Tender lettering. While accepting that the lettering is a shade out please remember that the difference in ride height on an A4 tender varies by around 5" depending upon the coal and water capacity in the tender! Looks a bit more than 1.75mm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Hi My father brought two of the A4's and sent them both back for a refund,due to the errors on the models. The thing is that people that have brought them a stuck between a rock and a hard place over these issues, Do I send it back and not have one or keep it and put up with the errors?. The thing is with such sort runs on models now that is causing a feeding frenzy, that if you send the model back and hope that Hornby will bring out a better version and they do not ,then your not have one!. As long as Hornby sell there models and make money they will not bother to sort out the problems, and just keep making models with silly mistakes and charging as much as they get away with/the market will bear. I get the feeling that Hornby are a law unto themselves and when they do bring a new model out that has issues they do nothing about it and never acknowledge that there are any faults with it,At least Bachmann do and do something about it. (class 40's) I have two 700's on pre order and if these come out not to be up to scratch then they will be going back, I am not spending my hard earned money on a sub standard model not matter how much I want one. The only way Hornby are going to wake up is for there models not to sell, but then again collectors of Red/yellow box's are not bothered about what issue the model has as long as they have it in there collection then they will be happy. No matter how many emails Mr K gets nothing will change,the only way it will is for use to vote with our feet, then just maybe they will get the message, but up until then they will just carry on making models and getting away with it,You decide. Darren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted March 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14, 2014 I have two 700's on pre order and if these come out not to be up to scratch then they will be going back, I am not spending my hard earned money on a sub standard model not matter how much I want one. The only way Hornby are going to wake up is for there models not to sell, but then again collectors of Red/yellow box's are not bothered about what issue the model has as long as they have it in there collection then they will be happy. No matter how many emails Mr K gets nothing will change,the only way it will is for use to vote with our feet, then just maybe they will get the message, but up until then they will just carry on making models and getting away with it,You decide. Darren I also have a couple of 700s on order but, being unlined black locos, even if they do get something wrong, it should be easy to hide any rectification! John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 One final thought re the Tender lettering. While accepting that the lettering is a shade out please remember that the difference in ride height on an A4 tender varies by around 5" depending upon the coal and water capacity in the tender! Looks a bit more than 1.75mm Yep, more out than it should be. I'm biting my lip by saying this (not a personal attach Mr Lindercocks) but the argument that the ride height of the tender varies is not a helpful one. Yes I have used it myself re the chrome strip on DoC solebar, but it was a least-worse compromise that would have required a new tender body and chassis to get totally right. Arguing the tender loading on lettering positions (which can be got right with revised printing setup) is like trying to convince yourself the original Bachmann 37/4 was accurate by squinting your eyes and pretending that the loco had been involved in a heavy shunt at both ends and was still allowed to be in service...! Were I being harsh I would say such 'justification' gives a loophole for continued lapses in quality by Hornby, and proves to them that modellers will accept this level of accuracy. yes the numbers may not align completely between loco and tender due to variations in tender loading, but the relative position of the tender lettering on the tender sides themselves should be correct. Great Snipe is far too high. Lettering should be a fraction below mid way on the 'slab' side of the non-corridor tender. Great Gathering Mallard, depending on which examples you have, are either too high or too low (don't ask how there is such variation). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Lettering should be a fraction below mid way on the 'slab' side of the non-corridor tender. Great Gathering Mallard, depending on which examples you have, are either too high or too low (don't ask how there is such variation). Exactly, and I suspect the factory has thought it should be in the centre of the tender. I realise it is a possible copyright issue, but at least for the benefit of research, here is one of the photos I have sent to Simon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Copyright ? looks like LNER in Colour ? I think it quite a old book and probably ok . Recomended for LNER modellers too!! If anything in the photo the Tender Lettering is lower than the Cab numbers !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Copyright ? looks like LNER in Colour ? I think it quite a old book and probably ok . Recomended for LNER modellers too!! If anything in the photo the Tender Lettering is lower than the Cab numbers !! That'll be the full coal and water load doing that, that will! But it may be noted that the tank bottom has done likewise, in a manner that the incorrect model can't do. The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamLover Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I've heard on the grape vine that there are at least two limited edition box sets due for release in the near future - in the region of £500. If anyone could shine any light on this including who's making them and what they comprise of i would be most appreciative!! Many thanks in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted March 19, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2014 Boxed sets of what exactly ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamLover Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I would assume Engines. Apologies for being so cryptic. I just overheard a trader at a recent event mention these upcoming box sets to an interested customer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffi_C Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I would assume Engines. Apologies for being so cryptic. I just overheard a trader at a recent event mention these upcoming box sets to an interested customer. A4s? From Hornby? The Great Goodbye perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamLover Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 A4s? From Hornby? The Great Goodbye perhaps? I'm sensing not as I heard £500 mentioned. Why didn't i just go back and ask the trader??!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Has anyone taken an interest in realised value of full Great Gathering collections of 6 on the second-hand market? I browse Ebay from time to time but don't recall seeing them, but this will be because I usually filter my searches to lower prices... I haven't seen any individual GG engines either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamLover Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Has anyone taken an interest in realised value of full Great Gathering collections of 6 on the second-hand market? I browse Ebay from time to time but don't recall seeing them, but this will be because I usually filter my searches to lower prices... I haven't seen any individual GG engines either. You can search ebay for completed and sold listings using advanced search. Typically the GG sets have have been selling for between £1400 and 1500. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Lindercocks Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I realize that people see Simon Kohler as the "face" of Hornby however Simon is the Brand Marketing Manager and, as such, cannot influence areas such as sales and quality control. The person you should be addressing you concerns to is Nat Southworth, Sales and Brands Director of Hornby who as a board level director is in a position to actually influence the Board and the suppliers regarding those problems. One final thought re the Tender lettering. While accepting that the lettering is a shade out please remember that the difference in ride height on an A4 tender varies by around 5" depending upon the coal and water capacity in the tender! Having tried a few words in mitigation for this model I called in at my local model shop yesterday to collect my pre-ordered model of Great Snipe. In the plastic the height difference of the tender lettering is far more noticeable (to me anyway) than on the pictures on this board. To put it bluntly it looks awful. In addition the wires between the loco and tender hang so low as to make contact with a slightly raised track pin or similar inevitable, with all the problems that will bring. I left the shop without purchasing the model, it is far inferior to my Great Gathering set models. P.S. Since writing I have read today's MREMAG and if anyone wants a graphic view of these two issues look at the pictures in Pat Hammond's review of this item. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iankemp Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 From what I have read and seen of them, The latest batch of A4's to come off the production line are way below standards of Hornby. The Super detail versions are far superior to the GG GGB and the Great Snipe. Hornby should be ashamed of themselves for letting substandard work come through like that on to the retailers shelves! I will not be buying the latest ones at all and if I was everyone else before buying the latest releases, I would be double checking the locos that get released. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Having tried a few words in mitigation for this model I called in at my local model shop yesterday to collect my pre-ordered model of Great Snipe. In the plastic the height difference of the tender lettering is far more noticeable (to me anyway) than on the pictures on this board. To put it bluntly it looks awful. In addition the wires between the loco and tender hang so low as to make contact with a slightly raised track pin or similar inevitable, with all the problems that will bring. Thankfully I've purchased a tender from a friend, so will swopping the Snipe Tender body with a Mallard. The Snipe Tender can go to Ebay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 From what I have read and seen of them, The latest batch of A4's to come off the production line are way below standards of Hornby. The Super detail versions are far superior to the GG GGB and the Great Snipe. Hornby should be ashamed of themselves for letting substandard work come through like that on to the retailers shelves! I will not be buying the latest ones at all and if I was everyone else before buying the latest releases, I would be double checking the locos that get released. Just to clarify, the recent A4s ARE the superdetail version. The problem is that the decoration and details has not been correctly applied. Also, we don't yet know what the quality of the GGB versions will be. THEY WERE NOT manufactured at the same time as the GG versions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinza55007 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 As the deadline for sending vouchers off for the discounted cabinets is now only a week away, I have spent all weekend looking for my certificates so can add code to the vouchers, but without luck (either put somwewhere very safe or wife thrown them out). Can somebody tell me the size of the certificates so I know how big a piece of card to look for, or alternatively anyone with a full set not having cabinet can let me have their number to put on vouchers! Thanks Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffi_C Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 They're a panoramic postcard size, coloured on one side in a similar style to the cabinet vouchers, and the other side plain white. I bought my Great Gathering set from Hornby, and they came in a buff A5 envelope at the bottom of the box the 6 locos shipped in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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