darren01 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 If you are not happy about this, then send them back, this is the only way Hornby will get the message. For that amount of cash I would not be happy with this at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffi_C Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Hattons are now predicting 15th of this month for Great Snipe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Yes I've received that email too. As I'm modelling the ECML in the summer of 1938, I'm going to need a lot of Great Snipes for renumbering to produce the single chimney non corridor variant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 What is the code in the white panel on the back of the box? CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPRAIL2011 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Thank you for your posts, I can see that the tender moulding defect seems to have affected other batches of the GG. Hornby has failed to respond up to now. I am seriously considering sending the lot back to the retailer for a refund as some have suggested, all the locos are back in their boxes, without running once on my layout. Very disappointed with Hornby quality control and customer care. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffi_C Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 What is the code in the white panel on the back of the box? CHRIS LEIGH Which particular box? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 What is the code in the white panel on the back of the box? CHRIS LEIGH Would you be referring to the loco R code for the Great Snipe Chris? If so it's R3131 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tetsudofan Posted March 5, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 5, 2014 I think Chris is referring to the white sticker that appears on the outer sleeve and on the Operating & Maintenance Instructions. In the case of my Bittern (R3199) it's: REF01-90370 R3199-43-979 and the same for R3197 DOC, On Mallard it's REF01-90370 R3196-30-979 On Dwight Eisenhower it's REF01-90370 R3200-45-979 and the same for R3198 South Africa and R3201 Sir Nigel Gresley I've often wondered what these numbers mean. If they are the numbers that Chris was looking for maybe he can explain what they mean. I know that LGB had a similar numbering system from which you could ascertain the date of manufacture. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 I know one 'should have to spend additional money', but complete spare tender chassis, or tender frames minus wheels are available from spares dealers. It sounds to me like the sprue has been trimmed incorrectly in the factory, although without seeing the tooling it is difficult to know exactly what is going on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPRAIL2011 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I think Chris is referring to the white sticker that appears on the outer sleeve and on the Operating & Maintenance Instructions. In the case of my Bittern (R3199) it's: REF01-90370 R3199-43-979 and the same for R3197 DOC, On Mallard it's REF01-90370 R3196-30-979 On Dwight Eisenhower it's REF01-90370 R3200-45-979 and the same for R3198 South Africa and R3201 Sir Nigel Gresley I've often wondered what these numbers mean. If they are the numbers that Chris was looking for maybe he can explain what they mean. I know that LGB had a similar numbering system from which you could ascertain the date of manufacture. Keith Yes, those are the exact same numbers on my GG boxes also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
durham light infantry Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 It means they are manufactured by Refined Industries (surely a misnomer!) for Hornby, rather than Sanda Kan. Where the reference would start SK. IMHO design clever was driven by the inability of Refined to initially produce models to the same standard as Sanda Kan, not a cost saving excercise as expounded by Hornby. As Refined's experience grows, the detail will come back. Smoke box darts and handrails etc, this is already starting to happen. The lure of the cash cow of another batch of A4's has made Hornby use Refined for a high end product that they simply can't produce yet. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Would you be referring to the loco R code for the Great Snipe Chris? If so it's R3131 Thanks but its the code shown in post 843 that I wanted. It shows where they were manufactured. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted March 6, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 6, 2014 This manufacturing code issue is interesting, in that surely it implies some tooling had already been moved from Kader/Sanda Kan to Refined Industries before the announcement that production of Hornby models by SK would cease at the end of July and that Hornby had paid to secure access to all the tooling held by SK. BTW, the latest Van Bs are also marked REF... whereas the originals were produced by SK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 This manufacturing code issue is interesting, in that surely it implies some tooling had already been moved from Kader/Sanda Kan to Refined Industries before the announcement that production of Hornby models by SK would cease at the end of July and that Hornby had paid to secure access to all the tooling held by SK. BTW, the latest Van Bs are also marked REF... whereas the originals were produced by SK. Or does it indicate that someone thought it was worth making duplicate tools in order to get this order fulfilled? Was it a thousand GG sets, each of six locos? That's a 6,000 run without any individual or standard range models. With the certainty that you'll always want 'A4s' in the catalogue, that's a figure that justifies tooling up. With regard to the codes, some of the wagons carry the RE code (for Regal, I'm told) CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted March 6, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 6, 2014 It would make sense if they had duplicate tools for the A4. Would certainly remove the issues we had with last years GG sets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 Really, duplicate tools? not just loco body tools, but the chassis, valve-gear, wheels, cylinders...... All with complete backward compatibility with previous parts (unless new part numbers were issued). Would it not be more correct to say that the A4 was a relatively early 'new model' from about 2005. Might the ownership of these tools be different compared with later tools? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted March 7, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2014 Or does it indicate that someone thought it was worth making duplicate tools in order to get this order fulfilled? Was it a thousand GG sets, each of six locos? That's a 6,000 run without any individual or standard range models. With the certainty that you'll always want 'A4s' in the catalogue, that's a figure that justifies tooling up. With regard to the codes, some of the wagons carry the RE code (for Regal, I'm told) CHRIS LEIGH I could understand for the A4, but surely Van B sales don't generate sufficient profits to justify a second set of tools and as I said the latest versions (I have the BR Blue one) are also coded REF on the boxes, which to me suggests that the tooling has already moved from SK to Refined. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I know one 'should have to spend additional money', but complete spare tender chassis, or tender frames minus wheels are available from spares dealers. It sounds to me like the sprue has been trimmed incorrectly in the factory, although without seeing the tooling it is difficult to know exactly what is going on. From the photo, it looks to me that a tool's slides which need to move to release a moulded feature, such as a body retaining hook, has not closed fully to its design position. The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Or does it indicate that someone thought it was worth making duplicate tools in order to get this order fulfilled? Tools reveal their 'personalities' in the random surface markings particularly where cosmetics don't matter, i.e. on the inside surfaces. We need a moderate gathering of model A4 owners willing to take the lids off their A4s and compare the inside surfaces! The Nim. (This could get a bit like enumerating differences in Beatles singles pressings. And did you realise that Polydor matrix numbers reveal the particular lathe that cut the original laquer? You don't need a train to be a train-spotter!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Really, duplicate tools? not just loco body tools, but the chassis, valve-gear, wheels, cylinders...... All with complete backward compatibility with previous parts (unless new part numbers were issued). Would it not be more correct to say that the A4 was a relatively early 'new model' from about 2005. Might the ownership of these tools be different compared with later tools? Not saying it IS so but just posing the question. There was big money at stake with the GG sets - at £999 retail for 1,000 sets a lot of bottom lines would have taken quite a hit if those models had not been delivered. As it was, it was a close-run thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Tools reveal their 'personalities' in the random surface markings particularly where cosmetics don't matter, i.e. on the inside surfaces. We need a moderate gathering of model A4 owners willing to take the lids off their A4s and compare the inside surfaces! The Nim. (This could get a bit like enumerating differences in Beatles singles pressings. And did you realise that Polydor matrix numbers reveal the particular lathe that cut the original laquer? You don't need a train to be a train-spotter!) This thread may need to move to collectable/vintage if there's any more talk of batch numbers and tool variations. And don't get me going on identifying record pressings.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted March 7, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2014 This manufacturing code issue is interesting, in that surely it implies some tooling had already been moved from Kader/Sanda Kan to Refined Industries before the announcement that production of Hornby models by SK would cease at the end of July and that Hornby had paid to secure access to all the tooling held by SK. BTW, the latest Van Bs are also marked REF... whereas the originals were produced by SK. Hornby's have announced a payment to SK to complete outstanding work and release the tools they currently hold in July. That surely doesn't imply either that some older tools (such as the A4) haven't already been transferred elsewhere or that recent new tooling (like the Van B is necessarily owned by SK/Kader. What happened in the past with ex-Airfix/Mainline tooling being used to produce models under Bachmann, Dapol, Replica and Hornby branding suggests that such transactions are anything but straightforward. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete55 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I know one 'should have to spend additional money', but complete spare tender chassis, or tender frames minus wheels are available from spares dealers. It sounds to me like the sprue has been trimmed incorrectly in the factory, although without seeing the tooling it is difficult to know exactly what is going on. Ah, but which spare would you order? All the GG A4's have the sound fitted tender chassis moulding, hence the plug and socket, different drawbar and DCC socket in the tender. This moulding seems to have a thinner top edge than the original and seems to flex more as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I've just received an email from Hattons, to tell me my two Great Snipes are being processed, so they must have arrived in Liverpool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffi_C Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Likewise with mine. It's been a long wait. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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