6959 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I get pulled up sometimes for saying a loco name incorrectly. What is correct pronunciation for these names? Soughton Hall (ie. Sowton or Sawton?) Wyke Hall (ie Wick or why-k?) Foxcote Manor (Fox-coat or Fox-cut?) Lechlade Manor (Leck-lade or Letch-lade). Tregenna Castle (Treegena, tre-genna?), Cornish and Welsh names can trap anyone. Chester and Cheshire catches me out. A few others to play with... Ditcheat Manor (locals say as 'Ditch-it) Conyngham Hall (?) Could be makings of a new thread? [i spell checked 'pronunciation' before posting this lest the thought police come after me]. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 What about the names of lots of the broad gauge locos? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Hi 6959, Try pronouncing Clun Castle correctly and see how many people recognise what you are talking about! The correct way to say it is "clean" I believe! This may just be a positive reflection on Tysely Bob's immaculate housekeeping of course... We best just call her No. 7029... I am also glad that No. 5051 is more often known as Earl Bathurst - there just aren't enough vowels for my uncultured English vocabulary in Dryslwyn! Driss Lin I believe being the right way to say it. I deeply apologise to all the Welsh RMWEB members who will no doubt be about to let me know how wrong I am! I would like to know if I am as it will make the tours I do of 81E more accurate. All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I'll leave it to one of our real Welsh speakers to provide the pronunciation, but I believe there are three vowels in Dryslwyn Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I'll leave it to one of our real Welsh speakers to provide the pronunciation, but I believe there are three vowels in Dryslwyn Nick Correct- W and Y are both vowels; lots of essential Welsh words, such as dwr (water) and cwrw (beer) don't seem to have vowels to those unaccustomed to Welsh. I can't work out how to translate the pronunciation of 'Dryslwyn' into English; the first part does sound like 'Driss', but the second part comes out more like an 'OI' than an 'I'(a bit like the French pronunciation of 'oi' in 'oignion') Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I'll leave it to one of our real Welsh speakers to provide the pronunciation, but I believe there are three vowels in Dryslwyn Nick Ha! It really confuses colleagues when I gently explain that Welsh has more vowels than English. The confusion starts with the bizarre belief that letters should reresent the same sound in every language which, when you think about it, they don't even in the north and south of England. It's only because we all pinched/were given the letters from/by the Romans in the first place... Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted January 22, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2013 My belief is that a Y in the first syllable makes it an U sound as in bun, so I'd start with Dru....... You could always try this. http://www.forvo.com/word/castell_y_dryslwyn/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 The problem with Clun Castle is the missing letter K. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 The problem with Clun Castle is the missing letter K. Geoff Endacott In Welsh is this? The C is always a 'hard' sound in that language - so that's straightforward enough - you mean at the end as a pronunciation aid? It's the 'u' that should be sounded differently to English (and different again between north and south, goodness knows which would apply in Shropshire which is where it's been since Domesday Book). Quite when 'Denbigh' became 'Denby' - to rhyme with Eastleigh - rather than 'Dinbych' (the 'ch' should sound like it does in 'loch') I haven't worked out but I guess that must be the influence of English, just like Tenby (Dinbych y Pysgod - the small fort of the fish). Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcm@gwr Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 The problem with Clun Castle is the missing letter K. Geoff Endacott I think that he might be suggesting a sound. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpion Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 w is pronounced "oo" and locals tell me Bettws y Coed is something like "betoos i coed" so, with apologies to the Welsh if i'm wrong, i reckon it resembles "drisslewin" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohmisterporter Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 The confusion starts with the bizarre belief that letters should represent the same sound in every language which, when you think about it, they don't even in the north and south of England. It's only because we all pinched/were given the letters from/by the Romans in the first place... Adam It's not our fault that the southerners get them wrong. They should speak proper English like what we do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I don't have any problem pronouncing any of the 6000 class though..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I don't have any problem pronouncing any of the 6000 class though..... King George the Vee? I'll get my coat... All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai1986 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I lived in lechlade, its pronounced 'letch-lade'. Hope this helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 King George the Vee? No, it's just King George Vee. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 In Welsh is this? The C is always a 'hard' sound in that language - so that's straightforward enough - you mean at the end as a pronunciation aid? Yes, at the end. Clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk... Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted January 22, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2013 w is pronounced "oo" and locals tell me Bettws y Coed is something like "betoos i coed" so, with apologies to the Welsh if i'm wrong, i reckon it resembles "drisslewin" Ahhhh, seems I'm using invisible ink in post 7. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted January 23, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 23, 2013 Matter do 'ee? Pronunciations vary and what's correct for one person isn't for their neighbour. So "Letch-lade" is as right as "Leck-lade" in my book though I'd use the former. Over in the east we have a town called "Whizz-beech". Or is it "Whizz-beck"? The Cornish prefix "Tre" is normally abbreviated in pronunciation to "Tr' " meaning "Tr'genna" not "Tree Genna" and always with a hard not a soft G. There are exceptions (not necessarily among locomotive names) such as Treeve which is "Treeve" and not "Tr'eve" nor "Tree-eve", Trewoon which is "Troo-an" and Trewoofe which is "Trove". Just to catch the unwary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary hill Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Around here linguistic elision - the omission of troublesome sounds/syllables and a very lazy local accent produces some fairly horrrible departures from the written versions of place names. As far as locomotive names are concerned anything with Leicester would be "Lester" or "Lesta" and Belvoir becomes "Beevor", although I think thankfully both of these are known nationally. Soughton Hall would be probably be pronounced "Soe-ton" round here, as there is a village in Leicestershire called Houghton pronounced "Hoe-ton". Some "French" placenames get mangled but others do not, "Beauchamp" becomes "Beecham" like the cold cure, but Beaumont Leys and Beaumanor Hall are given full value. "Swithland Hall",another GWR locomotive, is pronounced locally more like "Switherland" as it makes the "th" sound flow better. " Heather, another village is pronounced "Heether". Other local village names which regional and national news sometimes get wrong are Rothley more like"Roathley" locally, Groby more like "Grooby" and "Syston" which shouldn't sound like part of a toilet but more like "Sigherston". Anything ending in "worth" tends to become "uth", as in Bedworth, just across the border in Warks, which becomes "Beduth" locally. I tend to give up when I get to places like Croxton Kerrial which becomes "Crowson Kerry-ul". It all adds a bit of regional/local colour but probably doesn't matter that much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted January 23, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 23, 2013 I tend to give up when I get to places like Croxton Kerrial which becomes "Crowson Kerry-ul". Thank goodness then that we were never blessed with "Ruyton XI Towns Castle", "Kingston Bagpuize Hall", "Bridestowe Grange" or Marazanvose Manor" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Triang Paul Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 All this reminds me of the joke with the 2 Amer - eecan tourists asking how to say where we are to the waitress........... Ber - ger - King........... ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted January 23, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2013 Don't know if there was a Southampton Castle, but round here that would have been S'vamtun Carsel with the S'vam as one sound and the emphasis on the tun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Don't know if there was a Southampton Castle, but round here that would have been S'vamtun Carsel with the S'vam as one sound and the emphasis on the tun. There certainly was - not that there's all that much left; there's a 10 storey block of flats right in the middle of it! Bits of the town gate survives as does the water gate and associated cellars as part of the remains of the town walls. It's just off the High Street (on Castle Way just up from St. Michael's Church). We do a tour for undergrads every year you see. The pronunciation sounds spot on... Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hughes Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 And the place on the Avon and just shy of the Severn is known to everyone locally as Bristle - So Bristle Cassel is good! Historially Welsh used 'K' rather than 'C' but when Welsh books started to be printed (in London) the printers didn't have enough of the letter K in their type-cases, so substituted C, and the habit stuck. Clun, of course, is in Shropshire rather than Wales, and so is pronounced Klun, not Cleen, and as Clun Castle was never a GWR loco it shouldn't really be in this thread at all! Shrewsbury or Shrowsbury, anyone? Coventry or Cuventry? You can do this all day if you want... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.