Project 43 - The North British B-B Warships

[brushman47544]

blathered in dirt and oil

 

were the Class 43s really that much worse than other diesels in this respect?

Edited August 13, 2015 by brushman47544

[Dunsignalling]

were the Class 43s really that much worse than other diesels?

It wasn't just the Warships, none of the North British diesels were up to much.

 

John

[bigherb]

On D865 does the body shade of maroon look different from the maroon used on the chassis ? Or is it a trick of the lighting on that particular image?

The body maroon looks a bit dark....

Must have been a trick of the lighting mine has arrived and the body is the same colour of the chassis.

Edited August 13, 2015 by bigherb

[Phil Bullock]

Dear Phil

 

I have some model strip, but how do you apply, leave and remove it such that it only removes the printed  elements and not the blue paint beneath and around them?  I too wish to replace the nameplate with an etch but, never having tried this before, I do not want to end up with the blue coming away as well.

 

Best regards

Hi there

 

Courage mon brave!

 

Apply with a blunt stick - literally! We use wooden cocktail sticks, am sure wooden stirring sticks would work as well or better. Cover evenly whatever it is you want to remove but try to confine application to the areas in question. The paste works best if kept moist so put the model in a plastic carrier bag and wrap up loosely to prevent it drying out. Length of time needed will vary but 30 mins is all that loco needed last night.

 

Wipe away carefully with damp kitchen towel - try and avoid spreading it any further - and that's it....

 

It probably would start attaching the base colour if left too long but suspect that would take hours - the printed numbers/name plates are far less resistant to it and can be confidently removed in this way

 

Phil

[Phil Bullock]

were the Class 43s really that much worse than other diesels in this respect?

I don't think so! Paradoxically it looks like the 42s went through the carriage washers much more often and as a result some finished their days in appalling states. Don't recall seeing a 43 in that state - perhaps they sat on shed doing nothing instead!

 

Phil

[Gwiwer]

were the Class 43s really that much worse than other diesels in this respect?

 

 

were the Class 43s really that much worse than other diesels in this respect?

 

A glance through a couple of colour-pictorial references suggests there's not much to choose.  

 

"Warships in Colour" (John Dennison / Orwell Press) illustrates almost the entire build of 76 locos of three classes by way of representative views of each though the image reproduction isn't good.  It is good enough, however, to see that most of classes 42 and 43 were road-grimed below the solebar at most times in their lives and that many suffered from medium - large areas of paintwork missing or chemically eroded.  The worst example is of class 42 D826 displaying a "livery" of bare metal, red oxide undercoat, the remains of an off-white waistband from its green days. possibly some maroon and the remains also of its blue and yellow paintwork.  It is in a truly shocking condition yet was in traffic for all to see.

 

"The Heyday of the Hydraulics" (Hugh Dady / Ian Allan) which only offers views of some of those classes includes a good one of class 43 D838 in the remains of its green livery whilst taking water for its train-heating boiler.  Huge areas of bare metal exist on the body sides where paintwork has apparently fallen away.

 

Many class 43 locos had shorter working lives than class 42 and therefore spent less time in each of the respective liveries.  They may therefore appear to be in better condition more often in the photographic record and perhaps they were.  But by no means were they always so.

[br2975]

The worst example is of class 42 D826 displaying a "livery" of bare metal, red oxide undercoat, the remains of an off-white waistband from its green days. possibly some maroon and the remains also of its blue and yellow paintwork.  It is in a truly shocking condition yet was in traffic for all to see.

 

Would this be the culprit ?

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/68861278@N03/8366302177/

 

Brian R

[Gwiwer]

That culprit, that location although that wasn't the shot I referred to which has D826 sandwiched between an 08 and an almost-as-tatty maroon D815 and which was taken one day later.

[Phil Bullock]

And if I recall NBL had problems with applying the prestolinth filler which was under the paint - might be why some of the early shots in green are as Gwiwer describes - problem not so bad once shopped at Swindon.

 

Phil

[brushman47544]

That culprit, that location although that wasn't the shot I referred to which has D826 sandwiched between an 08 and an almost-as-tatty maroon D815 and which was taken one day later.

 

This one I think https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/2189418758/in/album-72157603648348394/

[Gwiwer]

Again not the published image as I quoted but clearly the same line up see from the other end.  Thanks for the links; they support the points being argued about paintwork.

[D1059]

Would this be the culprit ?

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/68861278@N03/8366302177/

 

Brian R

 

Its extremely difficult to model something looking that tatty without it looking totally OTT

[Dunsignalling]

Would this be the culprit ?

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/68861278@N03/8366302177/

 

Brian R

Good grief. Quite clean though! That carriage washing plant at Laira had a lot to answer for.

 

If you did that to a model, most people would say you had exaggerated it.

 

John

[robertcwp]

Again not the published image as I quoted but clearly the same line up see from the other end.  Thanks for the links; they support the points being argued about paintwork.

This one?

826_16-5-71 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[Downendian]

Lovely pics of D826 -there's a very nice 4mm representation of her in that state on the Kier Hardy EM site - look under class 42 plus there's a pic (last one) in the August 2015 update section.

 

I've just unwrapped my two 842 and D865. I'd just brought the parcel back from Plymouth yesterday and I'd forgotten to take it out of the car boot. Wife, daughter 1 and grandson went off for the day in it whilst I pummelled the keyboard on my book. Found the unwrapped parcel on the bed this evening , complete with invoice strategically parked! May need an inter flora order this weekend, good job I downsized my order from 2xblue and one of each green and Maroon then, when Hattons abandoned their preorder promise.

 

Smashing models, just love them. The new bodyshell tooling is very well done, the scavenger grille is exquisite and I particularly like the engine room cameos and door steps. The nameplate on 842 does look oversized, and the numbers on D865 too small, but no real problems as they will be reumbered in any case. The NBL works plates also are slightly masked by the body, but im being a fussy Git here really. I've yet to get to look at the innards but from the assembly diagrams the chassis looks very similar to the retooled 42. Will have a closer study this weekend as I have a spare 21 pin chip and will fit. Yet to fit the roof lifting eyes and vents, hope to get some depot photos over the next few days. Get em while you can they'll sell like hot cakes - can I stretch to a green one?

 

Neil

[Opelsi]

Thrilled with my D865.

 

Already fitted a driver and changed the headcodes!

 

Renumber and etched plates next - changing to D860 'Victorious'

 

Lovely model - Thank you Bachmann,

[Phil Bullock]

Sharpshooter should emerge from Churchdown works this weekend - Jimbo and I got distracted by fluff chucking yesterday.

 

Phil

[TrevorP1]

Finally got round to having a look at my two this morning. Very nice. Must say I'm relieved that the lifting eyes don't look too difficult to do. My only slight disappointment is the lack of eched plates but this has been covered elswhere so I won't go on.

 

I'm fortunate in being stacked out with things to do at the moment but I'm looking forward to seeing them together with the rest of the Warship fleet - reckon I've got enough for the 'Exeter St Davids style' scene now. It's going to be a while before I get round to that though.

 

Excellent news from KMRC on the D600s yesterday so a great week for hydraulic junkies! [ And that's before my driving experience on Western Courier tomorrow ]

 

Trevor

[Phil Bullock]

Sharpshooter should emerge from Churchdown works this weekend - Jimbo and I got distracted by fluff chucking yesterday.

 

Phil

But now realised we need shedplates! Look at the picture in "The Book of the Warships" - on the valance not on the supplied buffer beam mounting.

 

As the photo covers the 67-70 period assume the shed plate would have been the 83A one fitted prior to transfer to OOC in 67 - and that the stencil behind the drivers door would be cover the reallocation to 81A

 

Is that reasonable - or were OOC still changing shed plates at this time?

 

Phil

[The Stationmaster]

But now realised we need shedplates! Look at the picture in "The Book of the Warships" - on the valance not on the supplied buffer beam mounting.

 

As the photo covers the 67-70 period assume the shed plate would have been the 83A one fitted prior to transfer to OOC in 67 - and that the stencil behind the drivers door would be cover the reallocation to 81A

 

Is that reasonable - or were OOC still changing shed plates at this time?

 

Phil

Phil I would suggest looking for (reliably) dated photos.  Old Oak were definitely still fitting shedplates on some locos in 1963 (on the valance on a Hymek according to one of my pics) and I can also remember 'Warships' with shedplates on the valance.  Alas I'm not sure when the stencilled 'shedplates' came in on the Western but many locos carried nothing at all for a period  (just to add a bit of spice to your quest ).

[stovepipe]

I've been giving my maroon example the once over and I must say I'm very pleased overall. I hope she runs as good as she looks. One slight negative though;

the relationship between the marker lights and lamp brackets seems more Swindon than NBL.

 

The headcode numerals are excellent - 1V39 for the down Devonian, but 8D40 at the other end seems a bit of a left field choice. It's not any WR destination in aware of.

[stovepipe]

It wasn't just the Warships, none of the North British diesels were up to much.

 

John

That is the commonly held view, but in the Book of the Warships, availability is quoted at 67% for 43s and 75% for the 42s in the last 9 months of 1964. Both considerably better than the LMR Peaks which couldnt make 60%.

 

The will was there to resolve the problems with the diesel electrics, which just wasn't for the hydraulics, especially after the national Traction plan was published in 1965.

[Phil Bullock]

Phil I would suggest looking for (reliably) dated photos.  Old Oak were definitely still fitting shedplates on some locos in 1963 (on the valance on a Hymek according to one of my pics) and I can also remember 'Warships' with shedplates on the valance.  Alas I'm not sure when the stencilled 'shedplates' came in on the Western but many locos carried nothing at all for a period  (just to add a bit of spice to your quest ).

Thanks Mike

 

The livery tends to confirm the period - Early Blue Arrows both ends - but trying to track down a photo that shows the codes is not easy....!

 

Cheers

 

Phil

[Dunsignalling]

That is the commonly held view, but in the Book of the Warships, availability is quoted at 67% for 43s and 75% for the 42s in the last 9 months of 1964. Both considerably better than the LMR Peaks which couldnt make 60%.

 

The will was there to resolve the problems with the diesel electrics, which just wasn't for the hydraulics, especially after the national Traction plan was published in 1965.

It also confirms that the NBL-built 43s were significantly inferior to the Swindon 42s. 

 

However, by that time, Class 52 "Westerns" had taken over the "Warships" more demanding duties so the latter wouldn't have been being worked as hard in terms of loading, speed and mileage, all of which would have a positive effect on any reliability statistics.

 

John

Edited August 15, 2015 by Dunsignalling

[Brian Kirby]

One slight negative though;

the relationship between the marker lights and lamp brackets seems more Swindon than NBL.

 

 

 

I agree, and was going to comment earlier, i think they should be slightly nearer to the headcode panels for a NBL, but it's not a huge game changer and looking at piccies, i can't be absolutely sure they were all exactly like that. I was advised of this detail when doing my two previous 42 to 43 conversions, as shown on page 12 or 13. Well i only shifted the marker lights on one, i forgot to do the other, but that has been rectified in the last couple of days, along with the missing windscreen wiper. Another oddity are the engine room windows, again looking at piccies, i swear some of the real loco windows or frames seem to have been put in upside down, perhaps during overhaul? There were two sliding panes, one large, one smaller, sometimes the smaller pane can be seen the opposite way around, i don't think either were fixed? Don't forget D833 was odd i believe, with flatter Swindon style roof rads (and 42 D832 had NBL raised type), didn't somebody report that D834 had one of each?(!) Perhaps Swindon were finding out how interchangable parts and fittings were?   :-)   BK

Edited August 15, 2015 by Brian Kirby