Level crossing stupidity...

[John_Hughes]

Having been in the front car of a DMU that struck a sheep one dark night when we were doing pretty-close to line speed on the Cambrian main line, I can confirm that I too felt a momentary lifting at the moment of impact; but I suspect that it was the body of the vehicle lifting on the springs rather than the wheels leaving the rails.

[PhilJ W]

In the Great Heck accident the Land Rover had stopped with its front wheels just over the rail. When it was struck by the train the axle, because of its shape* would have acted as a ramp and would have caused the DVT to roll as it did as well as derailing it. *A Land Rover front axle is basically a straight steel tube with a bulge for the differential shaped like a hump back bridge.

[jwealleans]

We're wandering OT here, but I was told by someone in the industry that the DVT at Great Heck derailed because of a safety device intended to prevent the body and bogie separating too far. Essentially when they tried to simulate the accident, they couldn't get the train to derail until they realised that this retaining device wasn't present on their simulated DVT. When they added it, it derailed - otherwise the body bounced up on impact and landed back on the bogie again.

 

Not unlike the stories you hear of people who were worse off in accidents because they were wearing their seatbelt, I suppose.

[Adrian Wintle]

Having been in the front car of a DMU that struck a sheep one dark night when we were doing pretty-close to line speed on the Cambrian main line, I can confirm that I too felt a momentary lifting at the moment of impact; but I suspect that it was the body of the vehicle lifting on the springs rather than the wheels leaving the rails.

 

Riding GO Transit cab cars in the winter you can feel a serious lift at level crossings. The road traffic across the crossing melts and sprays the show/slush to the sides which then re-freezes as an ice bank across the rails. In the 7 hours between the last inbound train and the first outbound one this can become quite substantial. You can get some pretty serious lift out of the cab car, which isn't a lightweight by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Adrian

[The Stationmaster]

At the risk of going slightly off topic, it sometimes doesn't take an awful lot to cause separation of wheels and rails.

 

A few years ago, a friend of mine was in the very front section of a Pendo on his way home at night, when tragically, someone threw themselves in front of the train at the fastest part of the line he was on - 95 to 100mph. My mate phoned me from the stationary Pendo to tell me what had happened. He was quite shaken by it as he said he could have sworn that they momentarily left the rails as the train hit the body.

 

When you think of the mass of a Pendo at 100mph, hitting something as soft as a Human body, you wouldn't think that it would have any effect on the train at all, never mind nearly causing a derailment. Whether the coach did actually clear the rails is open to debate and it may have just felt like it, but even so, any vertical motion of a body impacting the front end is surprising.

 

cheers

 

Andy

Having, alas on several occasions, seen the results of what a fast moving train does to a human body and having on one occasion been on one that hit somebody the simple fact is that a train is a good deal larger and far more solid than any human body.  What will be felt on the train - quite likely down the whole length of it - is a series of thuds underneath as if something is 'hammering' the underneath of the train.  All that will be felt at the front end is - usually - a thud, nothing will lift or move except the body which has been hit although those hearing or feeling it might reach different conclusions, especially if a train is braking really hard (as is often the case in such incidents).  Feeling the thud at the front end is really the only significant difference between modern traction and steam engines because on the latter the enginemen might not feel or notice anything - it was not at all unusual for them to be completely unaware that they had hit a person.

 

Hitting a large animal is significantly different.  In this case - as has happened - derailment is a significant possibility particularly if it is a herd of animals or with mature cattle - especially bulls which are large and heavy.  Normally heifers/younger bullocks or sheep do not present a derailment risk but they can cause mechanical etc damage due to their bulk.  However I have dealt with the aftermath of several incidents involving herds of cattle and in no case was there a derailment although the number of animals killed in one of those incidents ran into double figures.

[LMS2968]

To add to what Mike said, I remember coming back to Lime Street in the early hours about winter 1973 on a Class 40 with a long rake of ecs behind us, pitch dark and, in those days, only the feeble marker lights.  We drew up to the stop blocks, and all Hell let loose. The front of the loco was covered in blood, and L&M main line was stopped while a search was made for the body. Someone, less squeamish that the rest, had a closer look at the front of the 40 and noticed pieces of hide tucked in various places, and obviously not human.

 

The remains of the prize bull were eventually found and removed from the tracks, although the farmer wasn't amused. We'd been climbing at the time of impact with the engine wound right up, and we neither heard nor felt anything.

 

Class 40s were rather on the heavy side, though, and with the buffing gear on the bogie. I was rather glad we hadn't had a dmu..

Edited September 18, 2015 by LMS2968

[lmsforever]

I was coming home from Marylebone on a 117 dmu  in the winter in the seventies when we hit a person near Harrow being in the front  coach the bump was felt  and it did not look pleasant looking through the window .It sad that people end their lives this way as the folks left behind are devastated plus the rail staff are totally traumatised  but don't know the answer.

[stewartingram]

Years ago I went to photo a 105 railtour on the truncated St.Ives line from Cmbridge. This had already been cut back further to the sand loader at the back of Fenstanton village, where there was a run-round loop, and the headshunt continued over an ungated LC.

I ventured on foot to this crossing; as the dmu went forward, fairly slowly,to the end of the line. It passed by me - probably about 4 ft - it passed over the LC which had been covered with sand & gravel from road traffic. and actually lifted off the rails right next to me, a little disconcerting!

On another occasion, returning on the 1st 365  from KGX in the morning after a night shift, we had a one-under as we exited Welwyn tunnel. I heard the rattle underneath. Strangely enough I'd heard a similar rattle underneath on the 0630 from Huntingdon a few weeks earlier, I do wonder if that was another one.

 

Stewart

[The Stationmaster]

Years ago I went to photo a 105 railtour on the truncated St.Ives line from Cmbridge. This had already been cut back further to the sand loader at the back of Fenstanton village, where there was a run-round loop, and the headshunt continued over an ungated LC.

I ventured on foot to this crossing; as the dmu went forward, fairly slowly,to the end of the line. It passed by me - probably about 4 ft - it passed over the LC which had been covered with sand & gravel from road traffic. and actually lifted off the rails right next to me, a little disconcerting!

On another occasion, returning on the 1st 365  from KGX in the morning after a night shift, we had a one-under as we exited Welwyn tunnel. I heard the rattle underneath. Strangely enough I'd heard a similar rattle underneath on the 0630 from Huntingdon a few weeks earlier, I do wonder if that was another one.

 

Stewart

Once you've heard one underneath a train you won't forget the noise it makes - if the train is getting a move on, very different noise from ballast etc being thrown up for some reason.

[trisonic]

Amtrak train on N&S tracks in Detroit area  hitting a car on a grade/level crossing at 70 mph. Apart from some rather small debris flying up from the car  not much is seen and the locomotive was relatively undamaged, let alone derailed. No gore visible on movie.

 

 

 

This video was released by the Canton P.D. for educational purposes. A single person being struck would probably go completely unnoticed.

 

5 young people were killed instantly in this crash. Two separate calls (apart from Amtrak) were made to the Police  including the driver of the pick up truck at the second crossing (who called from a business just up the road). The car (almost unrecognizable) was still pinned to the front of the loco.

 

Best, Pete.

Edited September 19, 2015 by trisonic

[jamie92208]

Without going into the details too much.  I had to deal with a 'one under' when someone committed suicide by sitting in the path of an HST that was doing about 90mph.  The impact knocked the front brake pipe off the HST so that it couldn't be moved.  No danger of derailment but I was quite surprised at the amount of damage to the power car. 

 

I think that the point about the various posts above are that what results from such a collision is a bit of a lottery as if the wrong piece of debris gets into exactly the right place trains can be derailed surprisingly easily and likewise many stay safely on the track when a derailment appears almost certain.   Thus we do need to keep educating people about the danger with programmes such as Operation Lifesaver in the USA and the work that BTP do in the UK.

 

Jamie

[Eggesford box]

I have known of a couple of occasions where it has not been known that someone had been hit until daylight when the remains became visible. In one case there was a suspicion that the person had been helped to the location owing to his physical state (Asbestosis).

 

Back more on post. Whilst 'working' Claydon L&NE Jc box earlier in the week I had a call from a slightly bemused crossing manager asking if I had known of any incidents at Launton AOCL after a report via the helpline from a woman claiming the crossing was unsafe as it did not have any barriers

[cromptonnut]

On a slightly different note, we have crossing related stupidity at Reigate from the passenger's angle taking short cuts off the end of the platform.

 

http://www.surreymirror.co.uk/Dicing-death-taking-rail-shortcut/story-27810792-detail/story.html

[Baby Deltic]

Having, alas on several occasions, seen the results of what a fast moving train does to a human body and having on one occasion been on one that hit somebody the simple fact is that a train is a good deal larger and far more solid than any human body.  What will be felt on the train - quite likely down the whole length of it - is a series of thuds underneath as if something is 'hammering' the underneath of the train.  All that will be felt at the front end is - usually - a thud, nothing will lift or move except the body which has been hit although those hearing or feeling it might reach different conclusions, especially if a train is braking really hard (as is often the case in such incidents).  Feeling the thud at the front end is really the only significant difference between modern traction and steam engines because on the latter the enginemen might not feel or notice anything - it was not at all unusual for them to be completely unaware that they had hit a person.

 

Hitting a large animal is significantly different.  In this case - as has happened - derailment is a significant possibility particularly if it is a herd of animals or with mature cattle - especially bulls which are large and heavy.  Normally heifers/younger bullocks or sheep do not present a derailment risk but they can cause mechanical etc damage due to their bulk.  However I have dealt with the aftermath of several incidents involving herds of cattle and in no case was there a derailment although the number of animals killed in one of those incidents ran into double figures.

Polmont was pretty nasty. I seem to remember a DBSO hitting a cow and flipping.

[trisonic]

Polmont was unusual - the leading coach (push-pull being pushed) derailed  due to (it’s thought) a bovine thigh bone being stuck under the bogie. It ran on derailed for maybe 100 yards before veering off. It was the second coach hitting the first at that point which flipped. Obviously a much simpler explanation than the report...

 

Best, Pete.

[beast66606]

Stupidity of crossing users and sensational reporting

 

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/watch-heart-stopping-moment-train-10085341

[RFS]

Actual film of the level crossing crash in Germany a couple of days ago - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34272214

[Gwiwer]

No film but .....

 

I was witness to one of the most incredible acts of stupidity and one I still can't actually believe I saw.  Having been out for a jaunt photographing our tram - train level crossings I was driving back home in quite heavy peak traffic and was duly stopped by traffic lights at Edithvale station.  This is a notorious spot; if there's a train - car impact it's usually here.  If there's a pedestrian collision (read suicide in some cases) it's here.  The main road, which I was using, is parallel and adjacent to the railway and a residential road which many locals use as a relief to the main road is parallel and adjacent on the other side.  The two are linked at the station by a level crossing which also leads to a major arterial route creating an H-shape road plan with the railway crossing the bar of the H.  There is limited visibility of the presence of the crossing approaching from the direction I was driving in but it is signposted (poorly, in my opinion) and all routes are controlled by traffic lights interlocked with the railway and which turn red ahead of the crossing lights starting and the booms lowering.

 

So I come to a stand at the red light at the and the booms lower almost beside me.  I'm in the right-hand of two lanes and traffic in the left has also stopped because that's the left-turn lane over the railway.  From somewhere way back a car decides to come around all the stationary traffic on the wrong side of the road facing the oncoming traffic - which luckily was also stopped by the lights.  Car then decides to turn left to cross the railway and finds the booms are down.  Our crossings only have booms on the "entry" side not the British full-barrier style.  So car reverses into a U-turn and attempts to reverse over the level crossing through the open side !!!!!  Only an extended blast from a train horn seemed to bring the driver to enough sense to stop.  Lucky for them the train was on the farther track as the car stopped astride the nearer one.  Frustrated driver then exited his car and shook his fist at the passing train!!!

 

Where are the Police when you need them?  That could easily have been a disaster in more ways than one.  And who taught him to drive like that?????

[Gary H]

Stupidity of crossing users and sensational reporting

 

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/watch-heart-stopping-moment-train-10085341

Sensational reporting? In the UK?

Never!!

That's it, all unmanned crossings need to be banned!!!!

Interesting item though Beast, non the less.

[Neil]

Stupidity of crossing users and sensational reporting

 

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/watch-heart-stopping-moment-train-10085341

 

Reading this quote from a Network Rail spokesperson “The barriers at the Smithy Bridge level crossing in Rochdale malfunctioned last night. Our staff were alerted and immediately took action to maintain the safety of the railway and the public" made me wonder what action was taken. The video clip seems to show cars either waiting at the flashing red lights or turning round and heading away from the crossing; though there's no obvious sign of NR staff on the scene were they marshalling traffic or was the intervention to instruct trains to stop and proceed across at slow pace once they were sure that the crossing was clear and safe to cross? Was other action taken?

[PhilJ W]

Stupidity of crossing users and sensational reporting

 

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/watch-heart-stopping-moment-train-10085341

The red lights were flashing and the klaxons were going so what's the problem?

 

Reading this quote from a Network Rail spokesperson “The barriers at the Smithy Bridge level crossing in Rochdale malfunctioned last night. Our staff were alerted and immediately took action to maintain the safety of the railway and the public" made me wonder what action was taken. The video clip seems to show cars either waiting at the flashing red lights or turning round and heading away from the crossing; though there's no obvious sign of NR staff on the scene were they marshalling traffic or was the intervention to instruct trains to stop and proceed across at slow pace once they were sure that the crossing was clear and safe to cross? Was other action taken?

The action taken was to operate the warning lights and klaxons and instruct the train drivers to cross at slow speed. If the barriers were jammed in the up position what other action could be taken in the circumstances? I've no doubt that strenuous efforts were made to get the barriers working again.

Edited September 20, 2015 by PhilJ W

[JDW]

From the video clip, that would seem to be the case, the train was travelling with caution and able to stop if neccessary, the road lights were flashing red, so no vehicles should have been on the crossing anyway, whether the barrier was up, down, or anywhere in between.  Flashing red lights are an absolute signal to stop and must never be passed (as opposed to a red traffic light which may be under certain conditions, including by emergency vehicles, and if you have reasonable cause to believe it has failed, for example, though that opens up a whole new can of worms...).  The most foolish person in the clip seems to be the one filming it, the car drivers are turning back rather than crossing, and the pedestrians are stood still before the barrier.  Mr PhoneCam is standing a couple of feet from the side of the train.

[phil-b259]

On a slightly different note, we have crossing related stupidity at Reigate from the passenger's angle taking short cuts off the end of the platform.

 

http://www.surreymirror.co.uk/Dicing-death-taking-rail-shortcut/story-27810792-detail/story.html

 

Glad to see the problem has made the press. Reigate station is my maintaince area and more than once I have been forced to repremand someone for chosing to take a short cut across the cattle grids and i know the signalmen have been complaing about it for ages to their bosses.

[kenw]

Level crossing stupidity? More like reporting stupidity!

For a start, it's not an automatic crossing - there's full barriers so it must be remotely monitored in some way, probably CCTV. This means the signals must also be interlocked with the crossing. From the video, the 'speeding' train (according to caption) has obviously been stopped and the driver instructed to proceed at caution and ensure the crossing's clear. Motorists are doing what they should, standing or doing a u-turn. As stated above, flashing red lights are an absolute stop and no-one, including emergency services, can pass, or authorise anyone else to pass, them.

 

I've said on here before, press motto, "never let truth get in the way of a good story"

 

As for "MrPhoneCam", typical 'mobile on, brain off'

[ParkeNd]

In parts of the North of England "while" means "until" as in "I have to go to work while 5pm".

 

In the eastern end of Colchester in 1972 traffic could be badly disrupted by the level crossing gates so continental barriers were tried. A cyclist born in the North was killed though. The new signs said "Wait while the red lights flash" and he waited UNTIL the red lights flashed and promptly pulled in front of a train.