RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted April 28, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 28, 2014 The alternative to using a microcontroller is to use a DCC accessory decoder designed for servos eg the ESU Switchpilot Servo (and I'm sure MERG do something suitable). Depends really on whether cost, knowledge or time is the barrier! Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJ Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Well I'm also very new to DCC. I went for the NCE Powercab for my n gauge layout with peco point motors. I have used the DCC concepts accessory decoder and set up Macros from the Powercab for route choices. Basically a set of macros for exiting the various fiddle yard routes and a set for the visible side (basically set up for which ever route a train might take - like you I have a simple junction with only 8 points). So just two buttons really - one to set the fiddle yard and one for the route through the scenic section - all controlled from the handset. I find it very easy to control although not as sophisticated as some Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted April 28, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 28, 2014 The alternative to using a microcontroller is to use a DCC accessory decoder designed for servos eg the ESU Switchpilot Servo (and I'm sure MERG do something suitable). Depends really on whether cost, knowledge or time is the barrier! Cheers, Mike Hi Yes MERG do something suitable and that is how I control my Servos from the DCC system. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 Thanks everyone for your input, lots of valuable information there. Looks like the accessory decoder could be the way forward. I'll start looking into this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 Is the accessory decoder compatible with all tyoes of point motors or just certain ones? Are there any that function much smoother with each other? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted April 28, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 28, 2014 So far, I have used Digitrax DS64's with SEEP solenoids (also work with slow action motors such as Tortoise) and they perform well, although if using routing in the fidleyard not all of them always throw. I am going to use CML Electronics DAC20 (which does 8 turnouts) when I convert the turnouts to DCC control on Fort Myers as that is better value and i have heard good reports on these decoders. As to whether they will work servo's I am not sure. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 You need to avoid solenoid motors like the plague. Seep, peco, whatever. They click and slam over and are horrible and will kill your nice handbuilt track. Something that drives a slow action motor is what you want. I have suggested servos as they are cheap as chips and as suggested can be driven by MERG controllers or as I am going to do using arduino boards which can control many many servos each and cost only a few quid conpared with other systems, they can also be programmed to take dcc commands if thats your bag although Im not a fan of dcc controlled routing etc unless pc controlled, I find the messing about on the controller feels odd when trying to control trains too, I like em seperate although nothing wrong with it if you want to do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 For my fiddle yard routing Im planning to get the points to throw in a slight sequence so as to not overload the power feed with all servos moving at once! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted April 28, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) You need to avoid solenoid motors like the plague. Seep, peco, whatever. They click and slam over and are horrible and will kill your nice handbuilt track. Something that drives a slow action motor is what you want. I have suggested servos as they are cheap as chips and as suggested can be driven by MERG controllers or as I am going to do using arduino boards which can control many many servos each and cost only a few quid conpared with other systems, they can also be programmed to take dcc commands if thats your bag although Im not a fan of dcc controlled routing etc unless pc controlled, I find the messing about on the controller feels odd when trying to control trains too, I like em seperate although nothing wrong with it if you want to do that. Hi The benefit with the MERG system is that you can have a conventional panel with the switches but only have four wires around the layout for controlling all the points (2 for power and 2 for the DCC signal). Worth a read of the MERG website below under accessory encoder (kit 51) and accessory decoders pulse (kit 52), steady state (kit 53). http://www.merg.org.uk/merg_resources/dcc_download.php I've just thought the CBUS system might be a better alternative if you are not interested in controlling your accessories from your DCC handset http://www.merg.org.uk/merg_resources/cbus.php Specifically CANACE3, CANACC8 and CANUSB. There is also a CANSERVO8 which allows 8 servos to be controlled but isn't illustrated on the web page. If you are interested in this there is a CBUS yahoo group (you don't need to be a MERG member to join). Cheers Paul Edit : To add CBUS information as this might be more useful. Edited April 28, 2014 by PaulCheffus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 Fair point Cav. The MERG system looks complicated for an electrical amateur like me but it sounds like the right thing to do. As you say it will preserve the hand built track. Think I'll need to try and get my head round it. What kind of mechanism are you using to connect turnout to turnout motor? Paul, thanks for your advice, I'll check out the website. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted April 28, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Solenoids are fine if fitted carefully to Peco track, All my N scale layouts peco track has lasted well using these and generally at shows we don't hear them in a busy hall. However I would agree that on handbuilt N scale that they probably would be potentailly damaging. Ian Edited April 28, 2014 by roundhouse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 As you say fine on peco track damage wise but you can always hear the click as they go over even in a busy hall, if its not busy then omg! I dont particularly want silent points but a massive click followed by 4 more as the route is set spoils the moment for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Hi The benefit with the MERG system is that you can have a conventional panel with the switches but only have four wires around the layout for controlling all the points (2 for power and 2 for the DCC signal). Worth a read of the MERG website below under accessory encoder (kit 51) and accessory decoders pulse (kit 52), steady state (kit 53). http://www.merg.org.uk/merg_resources/dcc_download.php Cheers Paul The MERG systems look good but you need to join MERG to get em. With the arduino you dont. Plus the arduino is cheaper and you can program it to do anything you like at any time. Of course you need to put the time in to learn the programming side or get someone to write the program for you to install. Its not difficult though once you get started. Servos however are the way to go IMO, its a couple of quid each v 15 quidish for a tortoise! I will connect the servo to the point with piano wire or similar so that it has flex when the point is fully over! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted April 28, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) The MERG systems look good but you need to join MERG to get em. Hi No you don't all the information is available on the website and you can get the PCBs made in various places such as http://imall.iteadstudio.com/prototyping.html (other PCB fabrication companies are available). The DCC kits are around £10 to control four points so I am not sure there is much in it. Cheers Paul Edited April 28, 2014 by PaulCheffus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Furry muff. I stand corrected if thats the case I was under the impression that MERG info was under the members only flag. As for cost, an arduino capable of controlling 6 points can be had for under a 10 spot and you dont have to build it, although as said you do have to program it. Its horses for courses really. I feel the arduino better suits my needs. EDIT In fact just looking on Ebay an arduino compatible mega board that would be able to control up to 15 servos is available for under a 10er. Edited April 28, 2014 by RBE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 Just thought I would post a photo of my new bench with two of the boards on ready to be worked on. And this arrived today from some little back street model shop in Liverpool! (apologies for the dark photo) My ultimate plan is to have 4 HST sets for Par. - Blue\grey 7 car set - 8 car blue/grey coach set with Intercity executive liveried power cars. (I've seen several photos of this formation in Cornwall and will make for an interesting train). - 8 car full Intercity executive liveried set - 8 car Intercity swallow liveried set I'm thinking about having a go at converting a MK3 TSO to a MK3 TGS as Dapol don't produce these yet, and I'm not sure if there are any plans to do one, as this would complete the sets. Best regards, Jeremy 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Excellent. Mixed sets were quite common in the mid eighties. I thought about doing one but Ive bottled out so far. I may do one if I get another set! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted April 28, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 28, 2014 There is talk of Dapol doing them but as to when in the livery you want we shall no doubt have to wait and see. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted April 29, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 29, 2014 Hi Jeremy, Dapol say in their latest catalogue that they're doing a TGS but they don't list liveries or running numbers, and I've not seen any indication of when they might be ready, or any evidence of progress (eg CAD drawings) so far.. Good to see you making progress on your layout; I'm enjoying this thread so thanks for taking the time to update it! Cheers Ben A.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 A small update tonight. Work has started on the Island canopy supports which have been made up using some parts from a ratio kit and some plastic strip. The rest of the canopy supports will be made out of various bits of plastic strip and I have already made a jig to make up the apex supports which will make them all identical....well that's the plan anyway! The ratio parts are almost identical to the prototype with a little modification. Still some work to do on these though before I can fit the supports and an additional 5th support needs to be made. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 Hi everyone, Just thought I'd check in just to let you know that there is some progress being made on Par. I plan to finish the canopy support structure for the island platform over the weekend. Currently being worked on are the platforms themselves. The card that I had used for these had sagged in the middle a little so this was ripped up and a substantial amount of card supports added in and a new card platform laid over the top. On top of this I am starting to lay 0.5mm thick strips of plasticard which have been scribed and fixed into place to represent the flagstone edging to the platform. I am currently working on the slabs which were still in evidence on the island platform during the 80's. Again, strips of plasticard which have been scribed have been used to represent this and 0.5mm plasticard sheet will be fixed into place to represent the rest of the concreted area (or tarmac). On the rolling stock front, the PRA wagon now has a chassis and will soon be ready for painting. Photos to follow after the weekend. Best regards, Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted May 30, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 30, 2014 Jeremy Glad to hear that you are still working on the layout. I try to get as much card diagonal supports under the platform as I can with plenty of PVA to hold it all in place along with the card deck. This has been my method on all layouts for the past thirty or so years. Appledore is now 30 and no sagging. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Im planning on using a single thickness of 9mm plywood for my platforms with card for the surface. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 Im planning on using a single thickness of 9mm plywood for my platforms with card for the surface. That sounds like a good method and probably wouldn't add too much more weight to the layout. But as Ian says, as long as there are enough supports under the platform surface, the card should hold fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 My boards are about 17tons each in any case so a skinny bit of 9mm wont add much weight! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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