For those interested in old cars.

[royaloak]

4 hours ago, 30801 said:

Gentleman pays a visit to a very odd used car dealer...

 

 

 

Some of them were only on the road for 2 years before being laid up in 2002, most were last taxed in 2002 to 2004, thats a funny way to run a car dealership, keep things on the 'forecourt' for more than a decade until they are basically worthless.

[Hobby]

Well they are already "old" cars by some people's definition, keep them for another 10 years and they'll no doubt become "classics" and worth a small fortune!  

[Kingzance]

9 hours ago, royaloak said:

Some of them were only on the road for 2 years before being laid up in 2002, most were last taxed in 2002 to 2004, thats a funny way to run a car dealership, keep things on the 'forecourt' for more than a decade until they are basically worthless.

I do think the weathering on this model has been excellent, even to the point of the mould effect under the number plate 

[russ p]

Apparently they are available for sale at silly money, there was a thing on the ZT75 forum about them a while back

[big jim]

9 minutes ago, russ p said:

Apparently they are available for sale at silly money, there was a thing on the ZT75 forum about them a while back

 

 

whereas the guy i buy my bangers off had, when i bought my mini convertable back in november, a W reg, 80k, 2 owner, immaculate rover 45, not a spot of rust, no oil leaks (bmw engine i think) with a fresh that day 12 month ticket for £450 

 

he prices his cars to get them shifted quickly off his drive having paid pennies for them from the local auction 

[Rugd1022]

14 hours ago, rockershovel said:

 

Weren't those late 60s and early 70s Detroit cars spectacularly handsome?  Pontiac GTO, Ford Thunderbird, Dodge Charger, Corvette Stingray... 

 

 They certainly were, as were / are some of the two and four door versions of the Pontiac Parisienne, Catalina and Bonneville and similar models from Chevrolet or Buick - last night I started watching series 2 of 'Streets Of San Francisco' which is full of stuff like that in the background, I kept pausing the DVD just to ogle them! I made a point of double checking the internal dimensions of my garage at the weekend to see what the biggest yank mobile is that will fit, alas it's about a foot too short for those graceful Pontiacs etc but will comfortably take a Mustang, Mercury Cougar, Pontiac Firebird or Chevy Camaro. Pity really as I really fancy one of those floaty old land yatchs…. what's crazy about these cars is that even the better examples cost less to buy than a '60s Mini Cooper or Cooper S...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Rugd1022

[Jol Wilkinson]

15 hours ago, 30801 said:

Gentleman pays a visit to a very odd used car dealer...

 

 

 

I wonder if the police would smile upon him for making a selfie video while driving?

[rockershovel]

Cheaper to buy, but to run is a different matter. 

 

I owned a Ford T-Bird for a while after selling my share in the Corvette, and cost of tyres were pretty severe, as was  its 15mpg thirst! It also used a LOT of oil....

 

But, like the Corvette, it was the right car at the right time and by the standards of the time, wasn’t completely unexpected; V4 and V6 UK Fords like the Granada and Capri were in the 25mpg bracket, Cortinas were often pushed to do 30mpg and even small cars like the Escort were in the low 30s

 

 

 

[big jim]

2 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I wonder if the police would smile upon him for making a selfie video while driving?

 

Even my 14 yr old picked up on that! (And the fact he had a kid in the back) 

[Rugd1022]

3 hours ago, rockershovel said:

Cheaper to buy, but to run is a different matter. 

 

I owned a Ford T-Bird for a while after selling my share in the Corvette, and cost of tyres were pretty severe, as was  its 15mpg thirst! It also used a LOT of oil....

 

But, like the Corvette, it was the right car at the right time and by the standards of the time, wasn’t completely unexpected; V4 and V6 UK Fords like the Granada and Capri were in the 25mpg bracket, Cortinas were often pushed to do 30mpg and even small cars like the Escort were in the low 30s

 

 

 

 

It's always puzzled me why the C3 Corvette didn't have a proper boot, not that I can see anyway? Is the spare wheel hung underneath the back like a Rover P5B...?

[rockershovel]

 

Corvettes, proper ones that is, don’t have proper boots for the same reason that E Type Jags don’t, Rule of Cool applies! I mean, seriously..

 

 

... ok, now I have to go and lie down somewhere dark and cool....

 

The spare is under the back, covered by a tin saucepan but they were often discarded as a weight saving ploy, to improve the handling or because the car has non-standard wheels and just doesn’t have one. 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by rockershovel

[alastairq]

Old [60's 70's], even '80's?] US cars can be expensive, or cheap-as-chipz to run..depending on what one's usage is.  When not stretching much beyond standard, they are capable of prodigious mileages, with service parts being cheaper than their equivalents in the UK/Euro scene.

Parts are easily available from the USA..the only fly in the ointment being UK VAt & duties..not forgetting shipping.

For example, Rock Auto?  [Just plug in make & model & year, and take a peak?]   They even have simplified shipping costs...and typically arrive within the week...

https://www.rockauto.com/

 

National Parts Depot is much the same...

Then there are the specialists? [CJ Pony, for example?]

As with UK old cars, there are constant issues regarding pattern parts [repos?]...especially when made down to a price in China....

 

Of course, one can also get the dealer to ship to a given US address [often free].....I can think of at least one UK specialist who has a US shipping address, to enable UK punters to buy what they need, get it shipped to the US address, whereupon it is placed in a regular [monthly, usually] container, shipped over, and either collected, or forwarded, for a modest fee....sometimes avoiding even duties & such..depending on how it can be 'disguised' within whatever else [car usually] is in that  container....

Of course, if obtaining an  old Yank tank..one has exactly the same issues as one would have buying an old Morris Minor.  Except, everything is that much further apart?  They are simple, sound engineering.....plus, of course, there has been a massive US-based enthusiast system, whereby most issues have been overcome, or dealt with.  Annoying though, when one reads they can nip down town to a local parts dealer, to get what we may have to search & wait for...

 

Regarding running costs? I have a chum with an MGB....his running costs, fuel-wise, are roughly on a par with those of my 6 cylinder Mustang, of the same age....I can achieve low to mid 20's per gallon,which is about what an MGB gets....The Mustang has a lot more 'room' in it...goes just as well [if not better?]...

It is surprising how we look upon our home-grown old cars with rose-tinted specs, only to realise they are really not any better [or worse] than stuff from the US of A....

I am 6 foot 2 {going down, apparently}...not too skinny [but not obscene, clinically]...I can stretch out my legs to the footboards comfortably...in fact, more room than I really need....my daughter cannot even reach the footboards, even with the seat right forwards....I can enter/exit via the passenger door easily, being able to simply slide across with dignity...[getting In & out the driver's door for me is another matter entirely...steering wheel does not move].........all these things I cannot do easily in a normal, common-or-garden European car of the age [ & certainly not new ones!!]....

The auto box is a blessing for me , being an older driver....US clutches tend to be on the 'heavy' side in operation...

The small six-pot engine [200 cu in, or 3.3 litres]...has oodles of torque....so getting away at roundabouts is pretty much a greased-lightning affair [so I've been told]...but without the potential for wheelspin that a V8 would proffer.

The car itself came with some 'sensible' mods already done.... a common disc brake conversion, for example [but no servo..I don't need one, but many might?]...I believe it has had a 'Shelby drop' done to it [drilling new holes, and relocating suspension bolts...what C Shelby did to the Mustang to get it to corner even better]...certainly it has been lowered, front & rear..although I reduced the rear lowering to one inch from two....and has 15 inch alloy wheels, commonly found in the UK....of not too excessive width. [I need to get a spare!!!].....Altogether, a thoroughly useable driver..not over the top in any respect...not as thirsty as any of the V8s...sounds very nice, much like an old Jag.....

My only complaint being the lightness of the power steering [an option of the time]...Oh, the doors were made one year after the rest of the car, and in a different factory........so must be a replacement via a local scrappy at some point in the last 50 years or so? Everything can be traced, pretty much, due to numbering....

 

Left hand drive? Not any real handicap in the UK....except when it comes to McDonalds Drive-throughs....

Ford very thoughtfully placed lumps and mould lines on the bonnet, so positioning is a doddle.....[the door mirrors are useless]...

 

So, I can recommend getting measuring tapes out into one's garage....the smaller cars [like the Mustang] are no bigger than a large english saloon....

[rockershovel]

I must admit that I never looked on our home-grown cars of the 60s, 70s and 80s with rose-tinted glasses, even when new! I was an early convert to Japanese cars (I drove my first Land Cruiser in 1978) so I knew how bad they really were... 

[russ p]

10 hours ago, big jim said:

 

 

whereas the guy i buy my bangers off had, when i bought my mini convertable back in november, a W reg, 80k, 2 owner, immaculate rover 45, not a spot of rust, no oil leaks (bmw engine i think) with a fresh that day 12 month ticket for £450 

 

he prices his cars to get them shifted quickly off his drive having paid pennies for them from the local auction 

 

 

There are no BMW engines in 45s or 25s Jim, just the 75.

I have a ZT with one but rover planned to replace it with a 16v version of the L series called the G series this engine did actually see in some obscure Chevrolet.

The BMW engine isn't too bad but its very heavy and in basic form only puts out 115 bhp which is pathetic for a 2.0 16v common rail turbo diesel, I have had it remapped and removed the EGR  so its now around 170-175 bhp and more economical.

My ZR is the rover L series has had a remap before I got it and that is 170bhp but quite smokey and not as economical as it could be but extremely fast and that is only an 8v ,I intend to get another remap and different MAF sensor to reduce the smoke

[Jol Wilkinson]

1 hour ago, russ p said:

 

 

There are no BMW engines in 45s or 25s Jim, just the 75.

I have a ZT with one but rover planned to replace it with a 16v version of the L series called the G series this engine did actually see in some obscure Chevrolet.

The BMW engine isn't too bad but its very heavy and in basic form only puts out 115 bhp which is pathetic for a 2.0 16v common rail turbo diesel, I have had it remapped and removed the EGR  so its now around 170-175 bhp and more economical.

My ZR is the rover L series has had a remap before I got it and that is 170bhp but quite smokey and not as economical as it could be but extremely fast and that is only an 8v ,I intend to get another remap and different MAF sensor to reduce the smoke

What does the remapping do for emissions? If nothing adverse, then I wonder why it wasn't done for production.

[Northmoor]

36 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

What does the remapping do for emissions? If nothing adverse, then I wonder why it wasn't done for production.

A big increase in Nitrogen Oxide emissions, mostly.  Basically when tuning a diesel engine, you choose which pollutant you are prepared to tolerate more.....

[big jim]

2 hours ago, russ p said:

 

 

There are no BMW engines in 45s or 25s Jim, just the 75.

 

 

Am I thinking of Honda engines then? 

 

My mum had a 220 coupe back in the 90s and I’m sure that had an engine swap from  a rover lump after it used oil gallons of oil but wasn’t burning it or leaking it from anywhere and thinking about it I’m sure it was a Honda engine as a replacement under warranty by the main dealer 

[Hobby]

Probably would have been, they were using the 1.6 S series (AR engine) and the Honda 1.6 engine in the earlier 216, I think the Honda badged cars had the Honda engine but the AR ones could be seen with either, not sure on that, though.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Hobby

[Oldddudders]

Rover had a big tie-up with Honda going back into the 80s. The 800 series was a Legend (not a legend!) in disguise, but I think the engines were Rover. Deb had an 820 Si, with a 16-valve two litre. It was quite nice to drive. 

 

[Hobby]

I think the 825/827 engines were Honda. I've always fancies one of the "fastback" 827s, the looks of the SD1 but without the hassle!

[russ p]

THe earlier 825s were Honda the later ones were KV6 

Apparently the 2.0 16v T series fitted to 820s and 220 coupe amongst others had the lowest warranty claims of any engine within the BMW group when rover were owned by them.

It was a two way thing with Honda as some of theirs had rover diesels

 

Going back to emissions from modified diesel engines the ZR and ZT I have both pass the MoT test with no problems at all. They are probably cleaner than the van as standard

[big jim]

Fan belt snapped this morning on the convertible in the roadworks on the M6, managed to limp it into the services at Stafford where I’m currently waiting to be recovered.

 

 hopefully I’ve not done any damage, but the belt also drives the water pump , managed to keep the temp gauge out of the red by putting the heating on full blast (it blew out cold though) to keep water circulating but when I stopped the header tank had popped the cap off and it was dry so I really don’t know what damage has occured

 

luckily the garage that has the cooper in fitting a new master cylinder and servo completed the work on Monday so we are going to do a swap 

 

 

anyone out wanting to photograph 6D44, its gonna be a couple of hours late today!! 

[boxbrownie]

33 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

 

Going back to emissions from modified diesel engines the ZR and ZT I have both pass the MoT test with no problems at all. They are probably cleaner than the van as standard

 

‘Unfortunately in the near future it is likely the MoT “smoke test” will be changed to include not only smoke/particulate emissions for diesels but chemical emissions also, and could knock chip tuning on the head quite a bit as NoX emissions will be limited to manufacturers specification.

 

What really needs to be stamped on is the “visual test” for emissions on commercial vehicles, too many commercial vehicles have been tweaked to give more power under load which doesn’t produce much smoke in the test centre but on the road under accel emits clouds of noxious gas.

[PhilJ W]

Jim, no heater is a sign of no pressure. On older cars in the event of water pump failure the trick was to remove the radiator cap to prevent further damage.

 

[Rugd1022]

20 hours ago, alastairq said:

Old [60's 70's], even '80's?] US cars can be expensive, or cheap-as-chipz to run..depending on what one's usage is.  When not stretching much beyond standard, they are capable of prodigious mileages, with service parts being cheaper than their equivalents in the UK/Euro scene.

Parts are easily available from the USA..the only fly in the ointment being UK VAt & duties..not forgetting shipping.

For example, Rock Auto?  [Just plug in make & model & year, and take a peak?]   They even have simplified shipping costs...and typically arrive within the week...

https://www.rockauto.com/

 

National Parts Depot is much the same...

Then there are the specialists? [CJ Pony, for example?]

As with UK old cars, there are constant issues regarding pattern parts [repos?]...especially when made down to a price in China....

 

Of course, one can also get the dealer to ship to a given US address [often free].....I can think of at least one UK specialist who has a US shipping address, to enable UK punters to buy what they need, get it shipped to the US address, whereupon it is placed in a regular [monthly, usually] container, shipped over, and either collected, or forwarded, for a modest fee....sometimes avoiding even duties & such..depending on how it can be 'disguised' within whatever else [car usually] is in that  container....

Of course, if obtaining an  old Yank tank..one has exactly the same issues as one would have buying an old Morris Minor.  Except, everything is that much further apart?  They are simple, sound engineering.....plus, of course, there has been a massive US-based enthusiast system, whereby most issues have been overcome, or dealt with.  Annoying though, when one reads they can nip down town to a local parts dealer, to get what we may have to search & wait for...

 

Regarding running costs? I have a chum with an MGB....his running costs, fuel-wise, are roughly on a par with those of my 6 cylinder Mustang, of the same age....I can achieve low to mid 20's per gallon,which is about what an MGB gets....The Mustang has a lot more 'room' in it...goes just as well [if not better?]...

It is surprising how we look upon our home-grown old cars with rose-tinted specs, only to realise they are really not any better [or worse] than stuff from the US of A....

I am 6 foot 2 {going down, apparently}...not too skinny [but not obscene, clinically]...I can stretch out my legs to the footboards comfortably...in fact, more room than I really need....my daughter cannot even reach the footboards, even with the seat right forwards....I can enter/exit via the passenger door easily, being able to simply slide across with dignity...[getting In & out the driver's door for me is another matter entirely...steering wheel does not move].........all these things I cannot do easily in a normal, common-or-garden European car of the age [ & certainly not new ones!!]....

The auto box is a blessing for me , being an older driver....US clutches tend to be on the 'heavy' side in operation...

The small six-pot engine [200 cu in, or 3.3 litres]...has oodles of torque....so getting away at roundabouts is pretty much a greased-lightning affair [so I've been told]...but without the potential for wheelspin that a V8 would proffer.

The car itself came with some 'sensible' mods already done.... a common disc brake conversion, for example [but no servo..I don't need one, but many might?]...I believe it has had a 'Shelby drop' done to it [drilling new holes, and relocating suspension bolts...what C Shelby did to the Mustang to get it to corner even better]...certainly it has been lowered, front & rear..although I reduced the rear lowering to one inch from two....and has 15 inch alloy wheels, commonly found in the UK....of not too excessive width. [I need to get a spare!!!].....Altogether, a thoroughly useable driver..not over the top in any respect...not as thirsty as any of the V8s...sounds very nice, much like an old Jag.....

My only complaint being the lightness of the power steering [an option of the time]...Oh, the doors were made one year after the rest of the car, and in a different factory........so must be a replacement via a local scrappy at some point in the last 50 years or so? Everything can be traced, pretty much, due to numbering....

 

Left hand drive? Not any real handicap in the UK....except when it comes to McDonalds Drive-throughs....

Ford very thoughtfully placed lumps and mould lines on the bonnet, so positioning is a doddle.....[the door mirrors are useless]...

 

So, I can recommend getting measuring tapes out into one's garage....the smaller cars [like the Mustang] are no bigger than a large english saloon....

 

Many thanks for that Alastair, a very thoughtful and useful post and much appreciated (have you posted any photos of your Mustang...? I Haven't seen any on here). I'm looking very seriously and thoroughly into this, even more so then the Italian stuff I still hanker after, my pal at work has some very good contacts in the yanky car scene and pretty much all of his mates are enthusiastic owners too, Mustangs, Camaros, Galaxies, Thunderbirds, GTOs and Corvettes mostly, but a few of them also have the larger Pontiacs and Chevrolets which is handy to know. He also suggested looking into importing a car from the states.

 

As far as the garage situation goes it has occurred to me that I could easily put a separate single garage next to the existing double one to keep the Mini in, leaving more wiggle room for an American car in the double, it will also allow me to put some proper storage cupboards and shelving in down one side as well. 

 

This version of the Chevy Impala would do me nicely but it's just too long...!