Modelling Pet Hates

[Michael Delamar]

wheels

[John M Upton]

The double standards of those who constantly demand higher and better detail on new models but when they do appear, proceed to whinge repeatedly that they are now too expensive.  Moral is if you want better quality RTR out of the box, you are going to have to pay for it.

[John M Upton]

Oh, another pet hate:

 

Liveries on models that should be standard off the shelf releases being ring fenced into exclusive limited editions for mags/retailers with 25% more on the price.  DRS and DRS Compass livery Class 37's spring readily to mind, should be a standard unlimited production model rather than fodder for the Ebay Carpetbaggers.

[trisonic]

You're "on a roll" John! Next?

 

Best, Pete.

[Poggy1165]

But at least you would have tried and achieved some degree of satisfaction and success. There are too many who don't even consider having a go and give up before they start.

 

And perhaps instead of innate ability we should talk about common sense, something that requires applying a bit of thought beforehand and the willingness to learn from experience. That's how most of us get better at doing things.

 

Oh, I quite agree. Anyone and everyone can improve their modelling by practice, and if they have a tad of common sense so much the better. I find it sad that so many find reasons not to try. My only reservation is that I feel that most of us have a 'ceiling' beyond which we are not going to get. Not saying that we should not try. Anything but in fact. If I hadn't got onto building things I suspect I'd have given the hobby up years ago. But I still (sadly) have my limitations. I wish I hadn't, and I do keep trying to improve, but the limitations remain. In other words I find certain tasks hard that <insert name of favoured top quality modeller> would find an absolute doddle.

[marc smith]

Interesting thread this
Thanks for posting the OP

 

My pet hates are;
Manufacturers of some kits, who don't feel the need for comprehensive, comprehensible instructions
Some manufacturers out there don't seem to think they need to provide much
by way of diagrammatic aids....
They seem to think that if you are building a kit of a locomotive
you should know what an "overhead, double-release, reverse flanged bolt retaining pin" looks like

..... and where it should go

I also dislike the term "modern image" when applied to anything diesel or electric

It annoys me that anyone should consider my 1970's stock this way....
If you disagree, then maybe you should go out & buy one of those new Austin Allegro's
put on your flares, cuban heels, whilst listening to Gary Glitter and donning your large medallion

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

What I find unfortunate in RTR models is weirdly skewed subject coverage. A good example from the steam age is the poor selection of general merchandise opens and vans. After the unfailingly popular private owner coal wagon, only the second and third most numerous vehicles on the network. For example, still no 'current standard' models of the commonest LMS group van designs. Yet a fairly long-standing choice of van types for GW and SR, whose combined fleet would be about half what the LMS operated. Yet, because of the common user principle under which such vehicles operated, the numerous LMS types are universally necessary to UK modellers.

[Talltim]

Don't worry, I've heard that Hornbach are bringing out Ready To Plonk Pet Hates in OO and N, so no need to model them anymore

[Poggy1165]

What I find unfortunate in RTR models is weirdly skewed subject coverage. A good example from the steam age is the poor selection of general merchandise opens and vans. After the unfailingly popular private owner coal wagon, only the second and third most numerous vehicles on the network. For example, still no 'current standard' models of the commonest LMS group van designs. Yet a fairly long-standing choice of van types for GW and SR, whose combined fleet would be about half what the LMS operated. Yet, because of the common user principle under which such vehicles operated, the numerous LMS types are universally necessary to UK modellers.

 

Sadly a lot of modellers don't realise this. If I had £5 for every post WW1 GW layout I have seen that only had GW wagons on it, I'd be able to buy a very expensive loco kit and the wheels, motor and gearbox to go with it.

[bluebottle]

Oh, I quite agree. Anyone and everyone can improve their modelling by practice, and if they have a tad of common sense so much the better. I find it sad that so many find reasons not to try. My only reservation is that I feel that most of us have a 'ceiling' beyond which we are not going to get. Not saying that we should not try. Anything but in fact. If I hadn't got onto building things I suspect I'd have given the hobby up years ago. But I still (sadly) have my limitations. I wish I hadn't, and I do keep trying to improve, but the limitations remain. In other words I find certain tasks hard that <insert name of favoured top quality modeller> would find an absolute doddle.

 

Like the majority of RMwebbers, I am an amateur in every sense of the word. I dabble in model railways because it is something I love and I am content not to make any monetary profit from it. Even the implications of incompetence don't worry me - to quote that subtly amusing man, G. K. Chesterton, "If a thing is worth doing it is worth doing badly".

There will always be those who will try to belittle our efforts; those people are mean-spirited and should not be allowed to deter us. Thankfully they are rare in these forums. There are also those who are generous enough to offer well-informed advice; these should be cherished.

[billbedford]

My pet hates are;

Manufacturers of some kits, who don't feel the need for comprehensive, comprehensible instructions

Some manufacturers out there don't seem to think they need to provide much

by way of diagrammatic aids....

 

 

I would put this the other way round:

 

Why do manufacturers persist in designing kits that need copious instruction to enable people to put them together.

[newbryford]

Not quite a "pet hate", but a "tough, that's what happens when you model the contemporary scene".

 

Just finishing off a model, to find it's been scrapped/renumbered/repainted/modified*.

 

* delete as appropriate.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Pacific231G]

What I find unfortunate in RTR models is weirdly skewed subject coverage. A good example from the steam age is the poor selection of general merchandise opens and vans. After the unfailingly popular private owner coal wagon, only the second and third most numerous vehicles on the network. For example, still no 'current standard' models of the commonest LMS group van designs. Yet a fairly long-standing choice of van types for GW and SR, whose combined fleet would be about half what the LMS operated. Yet, because of the common user principle under which such vehicles operated, the numerous LMS types are universally necessary to UK modellers.

It was ever so, unless our steam era railways really did transport more large gear wheels, cable drums, and ship's propellors than anything else. A study of what the weekly loadings of a typical goods yard really were would be instructive to many modellers. Most people though would probably rather buy four different wagons than four of the same type. 

[PatB]

The term 'rivet counter' and the snide way that its used as a put down towards anyone wanting to work towards greater accuracy. What exactly is wrong with attempting to produce a better, more accurate, highly detailed model?

 

The idea that wanting to improve any model is a Bad Thing and less 'fun' than running out of the box trains on code 100. Reworking sub-standard kits/RTR models along wit the research that goes with it can be highly rewarding, and running trains around in circles can be very relaxing.

 

I don't think anyone (well, not many anyway) would seriously denigrate those who strive for or achieve better standards for their own models.  Quite the reverse, in fact.  Where, I think, "rivet counter" gets used as a put down is where an individual dismisses  a model, built to the best of the builders ability and available resources, as worthless because of errors which are either minor or enforced by circumstance or because of a failure to use "approved" materials or techniques.  I can attest that such a blunt dismissal stings even when delivered by someone with the proven ability to avoid such errors.  When, as is often the case, it is delivered by someone who doesn't appear to ever build anything, or, if they do, to never submit it to outside scrutiny, it borders on the offensive.  Little wonder that those of us of modest ability may feel justified in delivering a little curry in return by using the term (mostly) fairly tongue in cheek .

 

To many people Modern Image is during their Life time, history is before you were born, I found it very strange while still at school to be issued with history books that finished only two years before the day we started using them.

 My pet hates.... time is limited!,  I wish I had chosen a smaller scale! I'm still building a 64ft by 12 ft shed 4 years after starting, I want to get on with modelling!

The Q

 

Modern image is in colour, historical is black & white .

[Bloodnok]

Trying to get standard parts overseas. There are many versions of this. Firstly, when trying to deal with local shops:

• Importers who attempt to topslice an entire market by setting the price to retailers well above RRP. Bonus marks for complaining about grey imports cutting into your sales at the same time. While I do feel sorry for the retailers where this happens, it isn't my fault the importer is doing this. If the "best deal" you can offer me is still two and a half times what I can get it for from overseas including postage, then I'm afraid you will not be receiving my custom today...
• Shops who routinely don't carry stock of obviously vital pieces. Like having boxes of flextrack but not carrying rail joiners.
• Telling a customer that there is no demand for something they have asked for. ("Little demand" would be a reasonable statement if they genuinely asked for something unusual, but "no demand" is always strictly wrong if the customer has just asked for something, and is particularly galling when it's a standard part of the range that sells in volume elsewhere.) Oh, and don't ever mix this with "You are the third person today..." or a similar remark, because you are just proving yourself even more wrong by doing so.

And when trying to order from overseas:

• Foreign resellers blatantly spiking postage costs. If <major UK box shifter> can send me a big heavy box full of locos for £30, including collecting a signature when it arrives, then you cannot justify asking for $150 USD to post a small and light object, and then ask for even more when I ask for a signature delivery. (I'm not sure why this seems to affect American retailers so heavily, but there is a strong correlation.)
• Refusing to post something outside some imagined boundary. Being willing to post to half the world (e.g. all of Europe and North America) but not anything that isn't in your "expected set". Come on -- all you've got to do is write a different country name on the package, and maybe charge me a different rate for postage. Which I'm paying for.
• Suggesting I collect something I want to buy at an exhibition you will be attending. Because a 48 hour roundtrip on a plane is a convenient and cost effective way for me to pick something up. Or not.

Oh, another pet hate:

 

Liveries on models that should be standard off the shelf releases being ring fenced into exclusive limited editions for mags/retailers with 25% more on the price.  DRS and DRS Compass livery Class 37's spring readily to mind, should be a standard unlimited production model rather than fodder for the Ebay Carpetbaggers.

I think that is a result of another of mine:
 

Concentration on limited scope or one-off liveries as initial releases (which incidentally would make great specials and commissions...), and then systematically ignoring the most widespread liveries in further batches. That just gives the various limited edition commissioners scope to try this kind of cheek. It's particularly galling when it's the livery the entire class was delivered in, or wore for the majority of their service lives, or something like that...

Another variation on this is manufacturers who slavishly reproduce the compromises and errors that were made when a (real) loco is painted in a 'heritage' scheme, and then make that the only release in that livery. Optionally, for extra bonus marks, they don't tell people it is 'as preserved' until as late as possible...

[trisonic]

As an annoying follow on to Bloodnok's comments is the UK suppliers : "We cannot supply to USA or Canada due to "insurance" restrictions - we can supply Australia and New Zealand, however" upon being noted on (another) Forum these apparent Insurance Restrictions were exasperated by a Canadian who stated that "Canadians should not be tarred with the same brush as Americans" - What brush? What have we done?

 

Best, Pete.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Regarding items posted overseas from the UK, I know from personal experience that items sent to family members in Vancouver regularly disappear into a black hole. New Zealand on the other hand, never presents a problem.

 

That doesn't have to happen often, with usually no recompense from the carrier, for a trader to decide that it isn't worth shipping to that country or to insist that the customer pays for costly, fully insured carriage.

[tomparryharry]

Interesting thread this

Thanks for posting the OP

 

My pet hates are;

Manufacturers of some kits, who don't feel the need for comprehensive, comprehensible instructions

Some manufacturers out there don't seem to think they need to provide much

by way of diagrammatic aids....

They seem to think that if you are building a kit of a locomotive

you should know what an "overhead, double-release, reverse flanged bolt retaining pin" looks like

 

..... and where it should go

 

I also dislike the term "modern image" when applied to anything diesel or electric

It annoys me that anyone should consider my 1970's stock this way....

If you disagree, then maybe you should go out & buy one of those new Austin Allegro's

put on your flares, cuban heels, whilst listening to Gary Glitter and donning your large medallion

Listen mate,

 

Thee's a bloke in our street who drives a Vauxhall Chevette (with the 1256cc engine) and he's considered 'avante garde'

 

Off to listen to my T-Rex stuff, and sew some colour into my loons...

 

Ian

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1. As an annoying follow on to Bloodnok's comments is the UK suppliers : "We cannot supply to USA or Canada due to "insurance" restrictions...

 

2. What have we done...

1. I have run into this when needing to ship out of Europe to North America and other locations in a different business context. Insurers quickly alter their charges to reflect the losses from claims, destinations which generate many claims then require the use of a more costly secure carrier (cost to customer) in addition to a larger insurance charge (cost to customer) and the additional workload to the retailer of finding and operating with the competent agent for shipping to any specific territory. There is no universal competent agent so to serve the world you end up with quite a list. Customer complains like fury, makes accusations of uncompetitive practises and the like; but there it is, it costs what it costs. I can quite imagine some retailers deciding that the profit on such transactions is insufficient recompense.

 

2. Having seen some of the delivered items which led to claims, typically handled them rather roughly. Tyre tread marks on a package clearly marked fragile, and other impacts, crushings, lacerations, penetrations, part combustions(!) which did the contents no good at all. Those that clean disappeared who knows. Now of course this happens everywhere in the world; even in merrie old England, Postman Pat occasionally boobs. It is the rate of occurence which the insurers see, that determines where the rates are increased in just proportion.

 

But you knew all that...

[sammyboy]

My big "pet hate" is when my Mum calls my railway my "train set".

No Mum, that is NOT a train set, it's my LAYOUT!!!

[Jol Wilkinson]

My big "pet hate" is when my Mum calls my railway my "train set".

No Mum, that is NOT a train set, it's my LAYOUT!!!

 

But how often do people of this web forum say say "it's my trainset"?

[Talltim]

A train set implies it comes as a set, together in a box

[The Stationmaster]

It was ever so, unless our steam era railways really did transport more large gear wheels, cable drums, and ship's propellors than anything else. A study of what the weekly loadings of a typical goods yard really were would be instructive to many modellers. Most people though would probably rather buy four different wagons than four of the same type. 

Sorry but I couldn't resist this - I once worked at a goods depot where we used to regularly receive wagonloads of empty cable drums (usually in Hyfits) and the nearby marshalling yard saw regular loads of cable drums passing outwards (no gear wheels or propellors but signal kits were another regular traffic).

[trisonic]

Regarding items posted overseas from the UK, I know from personal experience that items sent to family members in Vancouver regularly disappear into a black hole. New Zealand on the other hand, never presents a problem.

 

That doesn't have to happen often, with usually no recompense from the carrier, for a trader to decide that it isn't worth shipping to that country or to insist that the customer pays for costly, fully insured carriage.

Never heard of that but as Vancouver is in Canada may I quote it  the next time a Canadian implies we are a bunch of thieves? 

 

As a supplier you should allow a chance of using a courier service such as FedEx or UPS   - after all the customer is paying shipping...

 

Cheers, Pete.

[JCL]

Here are a couple:

 

When buying something from the States, getting almost the whole way through checkout only to find that they don't take credit cards tied to a non-US address - even if the purchases are going to an address in the States.

 

A minor one, search functions on websites that seemingly provide a random assortment of results. Following on from this, looking for a class 25 or something, being informed its not available and having a helpful suggestion that a bag of balloons might be a good alternative (eh Ebay?)

 

Sellers on ebay not providing pictures or only providing thumbnail size photos

 

Not doing the job right, knowing you aren't doing it right and doing it like that anyway. Then having to go back and do it again (ah, that's more or a note to self)

 

Magazines using far to many "box outs" and favouring design over clarity - I'm thinking of an article a while back on rolling boilers using styrene that I couldn't make head or tail of. It was like a pub meal from the '90's - the food would arrive on so many pieces of crockery that it was annoying to eat.

 

Calling crisps "chips" unless you are eating fish n chips, in which case chips are chips unless you aren't having the fish which means they're (French) fries. Sorry, a bit off topic there...