The National Festival of Railway Modelling 2013

[Anglian]

I enjoyed the show, but for me it wasn't on a par with say the St Albans shows that I've been to in the past. I spent a lot of time watching the large SR/GWR O gauge layout (name escapes me), I just find something about O gauge mesmerising. On the subject of Dorehill St Stevens, I think I saw one train move so I moved on. The operators uniform was just a bit odd.

[IGRL]

Personally, I find the white picket fencing a huge retrograde step. I first came across the stuff at a show in Germany.

 

1. Do we really want our railway shows to look like middle America front yards? I felt like having 'vote Tea Party' stickers made to fasten to them!

 

2. The intense white detracts hugely from many layouts by swamping muted weathered colours of the exhibit

 

3. Small and low people are effectively barred from seeing anything.

 

I do hope that cattle barriers come back as they are by far the best solution.

 

Everybody who takes a layout to a show has made a huge effort to get it there and I just wish one could focus on the positives rather than pick on individual layouts for any perceived short-comings.

 

Sorry if I have offended anyone.

[Tom J]

I agree totally with your three numbered points, IGRL! Luckily we had our own steps so the little chap could get clear of them, but they did feel tacky.

 

I am less concerned about what the operating team on a layout wear, but my beef about layouts with nothing moving (and the one that keeps being cited is a big, doubtless expensive exhibit with miles of track - the criticism also falling on a corporate group rather than an individual) is, I think a reasonable complaint when one has paid good money to get in. I am compelled to add that I am also a little less concerned about criticising an exhibition which is more of a commercial venture than a club or society's amateur endeavour.

[ThaneofFife]

lots of vocal on Dorehill St Stevens.  i also lent over the fence hoping to see something happen but it had suffered some kind of catastrophic system failure that left most of the operators bamboozled.  i waited for 5 minutes then moved on.   all that layout yet not a single thing moved. wot not even a slimmed down "diversionary" service???     lovely to take in the detail around the static trains but youre really there for the trains and to see em move......I heard one old buffer have a right go at two operators perched on their stools!

 

my best year for this show i think was 2011.  its impressed me less each time since.......

[-missy-]

Hello.

 

All these people moaning about layouts without anything running gets me scared. Its makes me want to take my layout out to shows less and less the more I read about what people seem to demand from layouts at shows these days.

 

Missy

[IGRL]

I have to agree with you Missy. I do one more show with County Gate and that is the end of it for me. With my own layouts, a country narrow gauge passing loop is depicted and there are inevitable gaps between movement. A radical systems failure is the fear of all exhibitors. Personally, for me, Peterborough is one of the much nicer shows and the BRM staff is excellent (and some extremely pretty!)

 

It is very sad that some find it fun to throw critique around so easily. I organised the L&B display at Warley and the amount of time given to it was huge. For my part, I would just like to thank Warners for making us so welcome and for running a very good show. 

[pete_mcfarlane]

Hello.

 

All these people moaning about layouts without anything running gets me scared. Its makes me want to take my layout out to shows less and less the more I read about what people seem to demand from layouts at shows these days.

 

Missy

 

I think most of the criticism is of one particular layout, which was a big roundy roundy crowd pleaser that had obviously suffered some kind of breakdown that stopped all trains running. I don't think I saw anything move on it myself, despite being in the show for over 2 hours. This is very different from not much happening on a small finescale layout.

 

The moral is perhaps to have a couple of A4 sized signs saying 'Sorry - services delayed due to a fault' or similar, and hang them out when there are problems.

[IGRL]

"The moral is perhaps to have a couple of A4 sized signs saying 'Sorry - services delayed due to a fault' or similar, and hang them out when there are problems."

 

That makes a lot of sense.

[ELTEL]

I do like the Derby approach with traders round the outside and layouts in the middle

 

As is Stafford

 

Eltel

[RedgateModels]

Never been to Stafford - never been invited ......

[ELTEL]

I believe you can come along if you pay on the door.

[RedgateModels]

[Phil Parker]

Sometimes bad things happen. For the layout under discussion it sounds like there was a serious fault. Despite what many people seem to think, no-one behind a layout wants to be stuck behind something non-operational. It's a very dull place to be and incredibly frustrating. With any exhibition layout there are a lot of things that can go wrong. Some preclude running any sort of service at all. If the electrics are stuffed, they are stuffed and nothing will work.

 

Spectators have paid good money to come in and for many seeing movement is all they want. Exhibiting my asylum layout I've more than once run a train off and while preparing to bring one on again with a gap in operation of less than a minute, still had a punter walk up and bellow, "This show is rubbish! None of the layouts are working!". Fortunately, they usually s*d off just as fast as they arrive...

 

Berating the poor souls stuck out on stools at the front won't help anyone. Those guys are the least well placed to fix anything, all they do is take the flack. Yes, I know they should have gone through a full customer care course before being allowed to be seen but as amateurs, this isn't always possible. What is more likely is that they will think, "This isn't worth the hassle. I'm going to take up stamp collecting instead." The only come back they have that will work is to ask, “So how do you ensure that nothing ever goes wrong on your layout?”

[Brian Indge]

Hello.

 

All these people moaning about layouts without anything running gets me scared. Its makes me want to take my layout out to shows less and less the more I read about what people seem to demand from layouts at shows these days.

 

Missy

I think you are missing the point here. We go to Model Railway Shows to see working layouts. Dorehill St. Stevens was a very large layout, well-built, with great potential for creating interest but had little or nothing moving, although a large super-duper LED display at the front of the layout, together with 'station announcements' gave the impression that a lot was happening when it was not. Failures happen, and had any of the operators mentioned to those of us waiting to see something running that they were having problems then we would have understood, but they did not.

[ELTEL]

Phil

 

Not all non operating layouts are down faults....

 

I agree in principle in the content of your post 138 however as a exhibition manager for just over 20 years I had a system when booking layouts.

 

On visiting a exhibition I would view a prospective future layout for a invite to our exhibition at least three times.

 

If I found nothing moving on all three occasions and the operators were more interested in chatting to each other instead of entertaining the paying public, it would be very unlikely that I would approach the layout owner for the layout details.

 

I would however revisit a layout at a future exhibition to see if things have got better.

 

I totally except things do go wrong and that of course that can happen to anybody, normally on a Saturday morning.

 

Off to bed now as a long journey to Swanley tomorrow just as a punter.....

 

 

Eltel

[250BOB]

Phil

 

Not all non operating layouts are down faults....

 

I agree in principle in the content of your post 138 however as a exhibition manager for just over 20 years I had a system when booking layouts.

 

On visiting a exhibition I would view a prospective future layout for a invite to our exhibition at least three times.

 

If I found nothing moving on all three occasions and the operators were more interested in chatting to each other instead of entertaining the paying public, it would be very unlikely that I would approach the layout owner for the layout details.

 

I would however revisit a layout at a future exhibition to see if things have got better.

 

I totally except things do go wrong and that of course that can happen to anybody, normally on a Saturday morning.

 

Off to bed now as a long journey to Swanley tomorrow just as a punter.....

 

 

Eltel

 

Terry

And what about the quality of operation.....do you consider that too.?

 

As I commented earlier in this thread, a very good looking, and operationally active layout can be completely ruined by unrealistic operation.  My gripe is always the rapid deceleration and rapid acceleration, completely spoiling what is otherwise a very good layout.  How do you tell the operators they are operating the layout like a toy train set.

I know this may sound cruel.......but it so detracts from all their other hardwork.

Bob.

[mike morley]

I'm not too sure there was a fault with the layout because whenever I looked at it there were trains running - just infrequently and badly.

 

I suspect the problem was with the basic nature of the layout.  It was very big and very complex - which you can be sure means it had very complicated, difficult-to-operate control panels.  It also requires a lot of people to operate a layout that size and when you're desperate for volunteers you cannot be too fussy how skilled or dedicated many/any of them are.

Some might accuse them of being ill-prepared, but I think it would be fairer to say the operators of Dorehill St Stephens were overwhelmed by the circumstances.

 

Less hard to explain were the antics on another layout there, where every train I watched came to a halt by running at full speed into either the buffers or the end of the fiddle yard.  I saw that happen four times in ten minutes and on every occasion the operator just sat and watched impassively as it happened!

[IGRL]

I have to say that I find it disheartening to see continued critique of layouts in exhibition. Having been the brunt of such things in the past, I can only attest to how upsetting it can be when one has done everything one can to get it right. Small wonder that I do my last exhibition shortly. I would feel safer taking up pole dancing!  

[ELTEL]

Terry

And what about the quality of operation.....do you consider that too.?

 

As I commented earlier in this thread, a very good looking, and operationally active layout can be completely ruined by unrealistic operation.  My gripe is always the rapid deceleration and rapid acceleration, completely spoiling what is otherwise a very good layout.  How do you tell the operators they are operating the layout like a toy train set.

I know this may sound cruel.......but it so detracts from all their other hardwork.

Bob.

Yes but I was responding to the comment of nothing happening.

 

The presentation and operation of the layout would also be a factor.

 

It has to entertain the public if it is stock out of box or a fine scale layout, what ever scale, gauge or period.

 

Terry

[mike morley]

IGRL

 

As has been pointed out before in this thread, this exhibition was a commercial venture - not a simple club exhibition.  That was why it cost a lot more than a club exhibition to get in and why those of us who paid that extra money to get in expected better-than-average exhibits.

 

Some of those exhibits (Including Cliffhanger) were better than average.  Our complaint is that rather too many were not.

[BR(S)]

I have to say that I find it disheartening to see continued critique of layouts in exhibition. Having been the brunt of such things in the past, I can only attest to how upsetting it can be when one has done everything one can to get it right. Small wonder that I do my last exhibition shortly. I would feel safer taking up pole dancing!  

 

I try hard not to get into these debates for several reasons, but very sad to see the one-track consumer mentality has now infiltrated the world of model railway exhibitions.  If a layout like Cliffhanger was being run to a BR strike day timetable in the 1980s, I wouldn't care as I'd be marvelling at the scenery.  Among many other things, I've never seen a large collection of trees that look so realistic!  

[Guest Celticwardog]

Enjoyed the show, my main pleasure was actual space you could comfortably walk around it. I will never do Warley again for that reason, you could hardly move last year just shuffle at a very slow frustrating pace only to then not see anything! Felt like a zombie film.....if zombies all had beards and wore fleeces!

 

I the show was a pretty decent mix of traders and layouts myself, many of which I hadn't seen before.

 

To reluctant exhibitors.....if you are going to show in public then I am afraid that being subject to critique is part of that. So long as people are not rude or nasty then constructive as well as negative feedback is going to happen. You are never going to please everyone but if you can't take the negative then don't offer yourself up for it, it really is that simple.

 

Everyone knows that sometimes tech faults happen but don't forget exhibitors are usually (always) paid expenses. With a huge layout like the one in question when you think about the transport costs and the army (literally going by the uniforms) of operators needing hotel rooms that represents quite a large amount of investment by the organisers so punters have every right to be dissappointed and voice that., they did pay to get in after all.

[Brandyman]

I have to say that I find it disheartening to see continued critique of layouts in exhibition. Having been the brunt of such things in the past, I can only attest to how upsetting it can be when one has done everything one can to get it right. Small wonder that I do my last exhibition shortly. I would feel safer taking up pole dancing!  

I suppose this means I'll have to by a pole then   

 

Joking aside, as an operator I have always tried to make the public viewing the priority. When things go wrong though plan "B" is well rehearsed. Ones that know how to fix things start fixing, those who don't start engaging the public.

 

Criticism though is a double edged sword, and while we all like to be told of our shortcomings, none of us like them rammed down our throat!

 

I'm sure that all builders and operators went with the intention of giving the public a good experience, as I am sure the organisers who want the public to attend again chose them for that reason.

 

Jeff    

[IGRL]

"As has been pointed out before in this thread, this exhibition was a commercial venture - not a simple club exhibition."

 

This is true but the hire of the venue and general presentation of the show reflected this and the additional costs IMO were well worth it.

 

As far as the exhibitors are concerned, they are not paid additional sums to attend and are AMATEURS who are doing the best that they can. A few kind words and constructive comments go a lot further that harsh critique and will encourage folks to reach higher in future rather than be scared to continue exhibiting.

 

My nickname for these threads is the 'Knocking shop'

 

Oops, I should not have said that!

 

With regards to pole dancing, as light relief, if I am permitted, this is a hot contender in Ukraine's got talent. She is an ex olympic gymnast, Anastasia Sokolova, and the piece is called 'fire'

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6FqSaAr7NQ

 

enjoy and hopefully we can all feel more positive!

[Guest Celticwardog]

Surely 90% of the people who exhibit are amateurs in that most of them have actual jobs and don't make an actual living  out of it. Not sure what you mean by "additional" sums. Most shows pay "expenses" and that is what I was referring to. I wasn't actually knocking the show or anyone in it, I was playing Devils Advocate and defending the right to critique, which we all have and which is, as I stated, inevitable.