Nelson Jackson Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 Thank you Tom Here is how the wagon is looking today, I've weathered one side so I thought I'll let you all see what it looks like. Better get going with the other 3 sides. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twright Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Great work Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Jackson Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 Thank you Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) Hi Nelson, There seem to be more pictures than when I commented yesterday, so the LMS wagon is more complete than I realised! I must declare an interest here and state that my brother makes these wagons and is in effect, Cambrian models. Having said that, you've built the wagon very well. Re. weathering the wagon body on the outside, it would be best done before applying the transfers. Most railway companies of that time (and I shall be shot down in flames here if I'm wrong about including the LMS in this!) used a white paint for lettering which was self-cleaning, as it contained oxalic acid. This then kept the lettering more pristine than the rest of the paint work and relatively free from dirt. Another touch which you might have already done, is to paint the wheels in a nice rusty brown. Don't paint the treads though! All the best, Colin Edited February 17, 2014 by Colin parks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Jackson Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 Hi Colin, Thank you for your comment and great advice, I appreciate it. I was unsure of applying transfers to the wagon before or after it had been weathered but your information about the lettering has cleared this issue up, I will try and paint the wheels and see how they look, it'll be my first time doing this and I'll report back how it goes. Right now I'm currently fitting the couplings and ready to apply transfers, Once again many thanks for your help. Nelson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Hi Nelson, Me poking my nose in again! Just remember to apply the transfers to a gloss finish for the best results. This entails gloss varnishing the sides of the wagon prior to adding the transfers - but after weathering has been completed. Once the transfers have been on for 24 hrs. (or more), a coat of matt varnish over the sides will bring them back to a uniform finish. You might have already done this, so forgive me if I am stating the obvious. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Jackson Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 Hello Colin Great advice again thank you, I did think about applying gloss varnish, but I don't have any matt varnish for after so I left it out and I've never had any luck with matt varnish, seems to always go wrong for me. I used HMRS LMS pressfix transfers, do they need varnish? I've already applied them and they are staying on quite strong, but I'll have to find out in the morning. Many thanks Nelson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
will5210 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 FWIW I stuck my last pressfix transfers on to matt, though they definitely prefer going on gloss, as Colin has said. You'll want to seal them just to stop any little numbers moving if you pick up the truck. Your weathering looks great! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Jackson Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 Thank you Will5210 For the next wagon that needs transfers i'll definitely use a gloss varnish for the transfers. Thanks Nelson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) Hello Colin Great advice again thank you, I did think about applying gloss varnish, but I don't have any matt varnish for after so I left it out and I've never had any luck with matt varnish, seems to always go wrong for me. I used HMRS LMS pressfix transfers, do they need varnish? I've already applied them and they are staying on quite strong, but I'll have to find out in the morning. Many thanks Nelson Just to clarify, the great thing about Pressfix transfers is that they can be applied to a matt surface without ill effect. The reason for applying waterslide transfers onto a gloss surface is to prevent the "halo" effect of the the transfer film, i.e. the part of the transfer that is clear around the actual lettering or numbers. By halo effect I mean that the clear transfer film becomes visible - and looks dreadful, because of tiny air pockets underneath it when applied to a surface that isn't gloss. Pressfix don't have a transfer film and so there isn't a halo! However sealing them with something after applying is a good idea to prevent them rubbing off over time - as you weather your vehicles the weathering coat in itself may be quite adequate for this purpose without any varnish at all. Edited February 18, 2014 by John Tomlinson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Jackson Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 Thank you John for your comment. I applied the LMS letters yesterday and today they are still a bit tacky, anyone have any idea why this is? Should I leave them for a bit longer or what? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Nelson This is a super thread which you have started and thank you for that, your modelling skills are much higher than most of your age and you are certainly teaching us oldies a few tricks. Sadly in the age of steam I was interested in the express locos and did not take much interest in the wagons which delivered coal at my local station for the gas works. I am guessing that coal wagons were kept for that purpose and general goods wagons would not deliver coal. I doubt very much if the inside of coal wagons was anything but black all over and again once it is covered in coal dust it would carry anything but coal. As for general goods wagons soon after entering service they would loose their initial clean colour and turn a much darker colour than new then perhaps turning a weathered greyish as wood does when left in the open. Or am I totally wrong and due to the grimy conditions they worked in cause the interior to go blackish. Still a very informative thread, thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire2865 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Thank you John for your comment. I applied the LMS letters yesterday and today they are still a bit tacky, anyone have any idea why this is? Should I leave them for a bit longer or what? My press fix do stay a little tacky as well. I think waiting and washing them with a bit of water right after application does help. And a final coat of sealer will help to hold everything together in the end. I also built the cambrian 5 plank and you did a much better job than me. My headstocks are a bit off as they wouldnt sit right and I rushed it a bit. But I did letter it by hand. When you screw up,just cover it with a tarpaulin. Haha! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Thank you John for your comment. I applied the LMS letters yesterday and today they are still a bit tacky, anyone have any idea why this is? Should I leave them for a bit longer or what? This is the residue of the glue from the backing paper. I usually leave it a few days, so that the glue holding the transfer to the model has a chance to harden. If there is still tackiness a tiny amount of turps/white spirit on a cotton bud can be gently wiped over to take the surface glue away. The tiny part is essential as if you flood the work the whole thing may unglue! Work, as far as is possible, from the centre of the transfer outwards, which reduces the chance of lifting at the edges. Good luck, John! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Jackson Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 Thank you John and spitfire2865 for your comments. I think the load that they carried and also the conditions and atmosphere that they worked in would have affected the wagon and how dirty and weathered the wagon would have ended up, but no wagon was ever the same, all unique. The usual famous named express trains don't do it for me, I tend to model the backbone of the railways, Industrial etc.. and the small things that people tend to overlook, while this may not suit others, I enjoy it and its always nice to see wagons that you made running on the layout and look the part, and of course just like spitfire, if anything goes wrong or gets damaged, you can always cover it up, haha. I'll leave the transfers for another day and see if they are still tacky. Pictures are to come soon of the completed wagon and the new hurst Nelson one. Once again thank you for your comments guys, Nelson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Jackson Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 This is the residue of the glue from the backing paper. I usually leave it a few days, so that the glue holding the transfer to the model has a chance to harden. If there is still tackiness a tiny amount of turps/white spirit on a cotton bud can be gently wiped over to take the surface glue away. The tiny part is essential as if you flood the work the whole thing may unglue! Work, as far as is possible, from the centre of the transfer outwards, which reduces the chance of lifting at the edges. Good luck, John! Hi John,Thanks for the advice, if it's still tacky in a couple of days then I'll do what you said. Thanks Nelson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Jackson Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) Hello everyone, Sorry it took so long to get pictures of the finished wagon but here they are now, Once the couplings (Dapol) were added, I then painted the wheels in a rusty grey/red colour and also I painted the wagon plate white on the solebar and the end of the brake lever white also. The transfers are HMRS LMS wagon transfers and they handle really well. The rust and wheels may look a little bright, but in person they look fine. You might also see in the background another Cambrian wagon kit, this will hopefully be finished next week. Many thanks Nelson Edit: I forgot to say, that a suitable running number is yet to be added so If anyone can help with ideas as to what could be a suitable running number could be for this type of wagon? Edited February 18, 2014 by Nelson Jackson 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I'm speechless mate! Well done! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Jackson Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 Cheers mate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david65061 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Nelson It looks great well done. The rusty wheels look fine. You have got that light coat of weathering spot on. regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Jackson Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 Thank you David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Hi Nelson, Looking good there! I should not have confused you about the transfers assuming that they were water-slide when they were not. Press-fix are quite different in application. The lettering looks suitably bold and in keeping with photos of prototype wagons of the period. and the weathering looks nice and subtle I am going to be a pain and suggest that you give the wheels another coat of paint and perhaps a bit darker shade of gunge. Even if you can't face doing it again, the finish you have got on the wheels is already is a hundred times better than if they had been left bright-plated. Re. running numbers, I'm surprised there is no information in the kit. Someone will surely know though . There will be a lot of choice of numbers as these wagons were indeed numerous, with over 20,000 of this kind being built by the LMS. They were common user too, which meant that by the laws of probability, they could be found virtually anywhere on the railway system during their revenue earning days. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire2865 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 For running number, maybe this will work. For legal reasons, I do not own either of these photos, I have found them through google searches and are solely for research and assistance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Jackson Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 Hello Colin and spitfire, Thank you for your comments and advice, it's greatly appreciated. I'll see tomorrow of I can give the wheel another coat of paint and the instructions did give a load of numbers but I was unsure as to which one to use, Thanks for the pics spitfire, I'll take the running number off the top pic for this wagon, Many thanks Nelson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Hi Nelson, I am up early this morning. I do hope you don't curse me for saying you need to paint the wheels again! On the real thing, the brake would have been pinned down quite often (a practice whereby the guard of an unfitted train would apply the brakes to a certain number of wagons before the train negotiated steep gradients). This would have lead to there being a fair amount of brake dust composed of metal particles from the brake blocks and tyres of the wheels flying about. This would then rust over time. So painting the wheels a basic track colour would be authentic and perhaps it would be worth considering a thin wash (10% paint - 90% white spirit) of the same colour around the under-gear applied in the manner you have done on the body. One interesting thing I noticed about the two wagons in Spitfire's post is that positioning of the letters 'LMS': the annotated photo has them centred vertically on the third plank down, while on the other wagon, the sign writer has placed the letters 'hanging' below the top plank. These little things are worth noting, for if you make another of the same type, you can justify varying the lettering. It all adds to the 'feel' of the model. There's me going on! I have to go and wake my son up for college now. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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