Where are the Hornby models?

[The Stationmaster]

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Is it possible to tell from the accounts how much the Olympic brand and the re-arrangements in China cost (both rather special one-offs) ?

 

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The Olympics involvement resulted in sales of £4.7 million and an overall loss of £1.3 million according to the Annual Report.

[DLPG]

Can you see there being much announced this year in new models? Considering how far behind Hornby are with items announced almost 2 years ago. So need to get a grip of their manufacturing issues

[robmcg]

Can you see there being much announced this year in new models? Considering how far behind Hornby are with items announced almost 2 years ago. So need to get a grip of their manufacturing issues

I think that is an important thing as described in

 

http://www.Hornby.co...ults-Slides.pdf

 

they call it 'management of tool bank'...

also strategic partnerships and all kinds of other things, but thankfully they never use the phrase 'going forward'. For that reason alone I give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Fenman]

Can you see there being much announced this year in new models? ...

 

Yes, actually; I would guess that the mostly positive excitement generated by the announcement of shiny new stuff is far too valuable for them not to announce anything.

 

And, at a time when the pool of unproduced prototypes is shrinking, any that are not "bagsied" by one manufacturer are likely to be grabbed by another.

 

Paul

[Coombe Barton]

And if there were no future plans then both shareholders and customers would fear the worst.

[DLPG]

Your right, they do need the announcements but I'm still awaiting my weathered O1 and sentinel shunter. The O1 being nearly two years! Also those Thompson coaches. I have seen a few LNER versions out but I'm awaiting the BR versions

[The Stationmaster]

Can you see there being much announced this year in new models? Considering how far behind Hornby are with items announced almost 2 years ago. So need to get a grip of their manufacturing issues

 

Commercially they don't really have any choice but to announce new models - it's where a big lump of cashflow comes from for all the r-t-r manufacturers plus they have to keep their name up there in lights for all sorts of reasons some of which have already been mentioned in the past few posts.  

 

The alternative is to not announce anything new and, as Coombe Barton has said, what sort of signals would that send?  I suspect the folk who shout loudest about 'doing nothing new until they've got last year's products on the way to the shops' would be among the first to shed doubts about the company's future if it was having 'a year of consolidation'.

[Coombe Barton]

So if the delayed models are 'old source' maybe there will be something that will say, for any new model announcements, 'new source'.

 

That would restore some confidence, if 'new source' delivers, that is.

[G-BOAF]

Your right, they do need the announcements but I'm still awaiting my weathered O1 and sentinel shunter. The O1 being nearly two years! Also those Thompson coaches. I have seen a few LNER versions out but I'm awaiting the BR versions

The BR versions were the first to be released. It was us LNER enthusiasts that were waiting agest for the appropriate release.... unless there's a second batch?

[The Stationmaster]

So if the delayed models are 'old source' maybe there will be something that will say, for any new model announcements, 'new source'.

 

That would restore some confidence, if 'new source' delivers, that is.

 

There would seem to be a mixture - some of the new models (e.g. the 'Star') definitely involve new tooling as for instance does the Blue Spot van and they could quite possibly be from different factories.  What we do know is that product coming out of Kader is suffering delays because of labour shortages and - probably - relocating production following a factory closure due to rises in local taxes (they say) and that is affecting Bachmann and could quite likely be affecting Hornby too although that is now only responsible for a much smaller proportion of Hornby output than was previously the case..

[Nimbus]

And if there were no future plans then both shareholders and customers would fear the worst.

 

As long as it isn't a 21 ton Hopper, a LMR 6-wheel Passenger Brake Van and a Mk1 Restaurant Car, eh?

 

The Nim.

[stewartingram]

The BR versions were the first to be released. It was us LNER enthusiasts that were waiting agest for the appropriate release.... unless there's a second batch?

The 1st issue were BR liveried yes, but the 2nd issue in LNER had the different windows (I can't remember which way round without looking), one batch squaure cornered, the other rounded. So us BR modellers are still awaiting the 2nd release promised! Also the short supply of the brake vehicle hasn't been met with a 2nd batch yet in BR, as promised at tthe time!

 

Stewart

[G-BOAF]

The 1st issue were BR liveried yes, but the 2nd issue in LNER had the different windows (I can't remember which way round without looking), one batch squaure cornered, the other rounded. So us BR modellers are still awaiting the 2nd release promised! Also the short supply of the brake vehicle hasn't been met with a 2nd batch yet in BR, as promised at tthe time!

 

Stewart

Yep, the first BR batch had round windows, LNER had square, so presumably a BR square issue is on the cards? There were no LNER round windows as these were all produced from c1950 onwards.

[Mike Storey]

Reply to OLDHARRY re Hornby Accounts: (I cannot seem to get my "reply quoting this post" button to work anymore): I did read the accounts thoroughly and saw a write-down of £150k for the MZ failure, which is not stock in hand. I am assured that Hornby held title to all the MZ stock unless sold, which much of it was not, as Hornby did not allow discounting, even during the rundown In the Administration period. The actual amount of stock held, either as a result of that ongoing policy or as a direct result of the MZ failure, is not declared, but that policy has always ensured a significant  in hand figure within their accounts. I do not know, but would presume this also applies to their other non-model-rail stock at MZ. If this policy is repeated with WHS and also exists with other chains, one would expect to see a high in-hand figure. Other companies tend to hand accounting "ownership", and thus liability, to their retailers, and get them off the books. This comment, perhaps not fully explained, was made to counter the possibility suggested by others that all this stock was being held unsold in some big warehouse. If you have a better explanation, please make it.

[robmcg]

Your right, they do need the announcements but I'm still awaiting my weathered O1 and sentinel shunter. The O1 being nearly two years! Also those Thompson coaches. I have seen a few LNER versions out but I'm awaiting the BR versions

There are some 01s about...

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-BR-01-CLASS-63670-DETAILED-WEATHERED-SUPER-ITEM-BOXED-/370951357541?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item565e6c8465

 

I have been a customer of this company and have done one or two pics for them, but I am sure I have seen the weathered Hornby 01 for sale elsewhere too. I agree more Thompson coaches would be nice. Actually finding recent Hornby models is quite fun. It is this website which steered me towards a new Hornby Star over a month ago, and a beautiful model it is too, AND I was given the name of suppliers of 10-spoke front wheels too! (and bought them)

[The Stationmaster]

Reply to OLDHARRY re Hornby Accounts: (I cannot seem to get my "reply quoting this post" button to work anymore): I did read the accounts thoroughly and saw a write-down of £150k for the MZ failure, which is not stock in hand. I am assured that Hornby held title to all the MZ stock unless sold, which much of it was not, as Hornby did not allow discounting, even during the rundown In the Administration period. The actual amount of stock held, either as a result of that ongoing policy or as a direct result of the MZ failure, is not declared, but that policy has always ensured a significant  in hand figure within their accounts. I do not know, but would presume this also applies to their other non-model-rail stock at MZ. If this policy is repeated with WHS and also exists with other chains, one would expect to see a high in-hand figure. Other companies tend to hand accounting "ownership", and thus liability, to their retailers, and get them off the books. This comment, perhaps not fully explained, was made to counter the possibility suggested by others that all this stock was being held unsold in some big warehouse. If you have a better explanation, please make it.

 

Don't forget that MZ stocked a wide range of Hornby Group products and while we know the model railway stuff was concession we don't know if Airfix, Humbrol or Scalextric were in that category (I presume Airfix and Humbrol weren't as they were in the MZ sale, I didn't take any notice of Scalextric).

 

So yes, no doubt concession stock remains somewhere on Hornby's books as it it theirs but equally stock held for distribution or unsold is also on their books as is unsold stock which they try to shift in various ways including discounted trade prices or at 'sale' prices on their website or - certainly in the case of MZ - at reduced prices in (some?) concession outlets.  Quite how the total is distributed in terms of where it is we simply don't know but it;s interesting that there is a reference in the report to reducing it - which presumably applies mainly to stuff which is not at soem sort of retail outlet?

[Legend]

Looking forward to the 16th. I think it will be fascinating to see how they deal with the issues. Will they attack them head on and be honest about future deliveries or will it be the Rose tinted version , not mentioning any of the difficulties. For sure there will be new models , but the manufacturing capacity famine doesn't just affect new models but the existing range too, so for me it will be interesting looking at the catalogue which should reflect what's in stock and intended to be in production in the year. If they are doing this right there may have to be a temporary restriction in the range, similar to the rationalisation that happened in 1975. Restrict the number of models but make sure the remaining ones are available.

[dibber25]

Looking forward to the 16th. I think it will be fascinating to see how they deal with the issues. Will they attack them head on and be honest about future deliveries or will it be the Rose tinted version , not mentioning any of the difficulties. For sure there will be new models , but the manufacturing capacity famine doesn't just affect new models but the existing range too, so for me it will be interesting looking at the catalogue which should reflect what's in stock and intended to be in production in the year. If they are doing this right there may have to be a temporary restriction in the range, similar to the rationalisation that happened in 1975. Restrict the number of models but make sure the remaining ones are available.

I'm not aware of any pre-Christmas press event this year (there was none in 2012 either, although there were individual meetings with mag Editors. I'm not even aware of that happening this year, although it may be). Perhaps Hornby is announcing on its website and leaving everyone to pick it up from there, that at least avoids the wretched 'embargo' situation.

CHRIS LEIGH

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...After-knowledge is a great thing, and I would like to know to what degree the outgoing CEO and late 2000s Board thought of having a single supplier. I am uncomfortable with the blaming of one man when we don't know what the team decided and why the Board approved it...

 

I well recall the incoming tide from around 1980 of the newly MBA equipped pushing among other things 'single sourcing'. And yes, in a stable and predictable environment this can be the most cost effective way of conducting business. But it reveals its (perfectly well understood by most of the experienced 'older heads') weakness when conditions destabilise. As ever BoD's of publicly owned and thus shareholder accountable companies typically take the action which yields results NOW; let the devil take tomorrow, that's someone else's problem. if this seems shortsighted I refer you to the first director of a major business that I reported directly to: "I have one year's experience, 37 times.".

 

Hornby had to offshore production to survive. For model railway they got into bed with an extremely competent established supplier in Sanda Kan, and it went like a train the first few years, until the founding owner sold up to retire. Hornby were arguably slow to diversify their supplier base once it became clear that Sanda Kan's capability had been permanently damaged; easy to write now, not always so easy to recognise at the time.

[robmcg]

Looking forward to the 16th. I think it will be fascinating to see how they deal with the issues. Will they attack them head on and be honest about future deliveries or will it be the Rose tinted version , not mentioning any of the difficulties. For sure there will be new models , but the manufacturing capacity famine doesn't just affect new models but the existing range too, so for me it will be interesting looking at the catalogue which should reflect what's in stock and intended to be in production in the year. If they are doing this right there may have to be a temporary restriction in the range, similar to the rationalisation that happened in 1975. Restrict the number of models but make sure the remaining ones are available.

It does seem a long time ago when some steady-selling models were always available from one or other of reliable retailers, or could be ordered and delivered in a matter of days. I have a few models bought in the last few months which would be very easy to sell, BR 7229 unmarked un-bent and an equally unmarked unbent GWR Star 4018, but I don't want to sell them because they are simply lovely models and they would be very hard to replace!

 

As to an announcement by Hornby on the 16th of this month, (edit; oops, next month for you in the UK as I write) what is the source of this rumour, or is it supposition based on previous years?

 

I agree it would be difficult for Hornby, and I believe it unlikely, to announce any *new* models, given that they talk already of continuing to address supply difficulties for 2014. On the other hand, if preparatory work is in fact led from Margate, and the design and tool-making would take a year or two, then intentions to build new models would be very nice to hear about. I think the wise heads amongst us would see such plans as being no more than best intentions, and demonstrations of good new models from 'new strategic partnerships' would go a long way to improve confidence in the brand, at least for quality RTR models.

[Adams442T]

As to an announcement by Hornby on the 16th of this month, (edit; oops, next month for you in the UK as I write) what is the source of this rumour, or is it supposition based on previous years?

 

I agree it would be difficult for Hornby, and I believe it unlikely, to announce any *new* models, given that they talk already of continuing to address supply difficulties for 2014. On the other hand, if preparatory work is in fact led from Margate, and the design and tool-making would take a year or two, then intentions to build new models would be very nice to hear about. I think the wise heads amongst us would see such plans as being no more than best intentions, and demonstrations of good new models from 'new strategic partnerships' would go a long way to improve confidence in the brand, at least for quality RTR models.

 

It has appeared on various forums and is, AFAIK, correct.  I think it would be nice if they stuck their hands up and said sorry to all their retailers, told the truth about their proposed intentions and perhaps laid out a Bachmann style rolling 18 months schedule.   Oops there goes that pig squadron again!

[Coombe Barton]

... and perhaps laid out a Bachmann style rolling 18 months schedule.   ...

So are you saying that the engineers should say something and not the marketers?

[Adams442T]

So are you saying that the engineers should say something and not the marketers?

 

I would have thought that even Hornby's marketers would perhaps be happy to have something even vaguely believable to peddle in future! 

[it's-er]

Hornby themselves have confirmed Monday 16 December as the announcement of their 2014 programme. This happens when they call their regional representatives together, and let them know what the next year's programme will be. In the past Hornby swore everyone to secrecy till Christmas Day, but inevitably some news got out in advance (something to do with magazine publication dates which were supposed to be after the deadline, but some materialised in WH Smith etc in advance of the embargo date) So last year they made the announcement to everyone at the same time. Hence this year's 16th announcement.

 

Will they have anything to announce? Last year, people were saying the same as above - that releases were behind, and that there would only be a small programme. Tha proved to be wrong, and no doubt we will see a reasonable 2014 programme, even if some of these don't appear till 2015. But last year the 2-BIL was announced and available within weeks, so there is always the possibility of surprise. We will know in just over 2 weeks time.

 

John

[County of Yorkshire]

But last year the 2-BIL was announced and available within weeks, so there is always the possibility of surprise. We will know in just over 2 weeks time.

 

I think if GWR toplights were to appear with as much brevity, I'd be in a comatose state until 2015 anyway...