NO MORE FUEL TRAIN

[Rugd1022]

Do you know how many Drivers there are at BZ now Craig..?

[winterbournecm]

Just 9 Nige. There were 16 until recently. Fortunately, there were no Drivers leaving the industry - some went to other depots / companies. One Shunter was sadly the only loss of staff.

[royaloak]

Daft question but is it just the deliveries to Penzance going over to road haulage or is the whole Philips Marsh, Laira and Penzance train (which runs as one train out of Fawley) going over to road?

 

Edit-

I see its all of them, very sad news.

[Xerces Fobe2]

Remember when Ed Berkhart of EWS tried to get wagonload freight rolling again in the South West. I remember see a train with anchor chains in Truro station circa 1999 I think that that may have come from Falmouth and somewhere have a slide of this which I must try and find again! I think if Ed had not being pushed out and persisted with his ideas freight on the railways in many areas would have increased.

 

XF

[winterbournecm]

I suppose thoughts of traffic from Cornwall is probably whimsical in most cases. The large amount of veg that goes away by lorry is colossal. We no longer have the sidings and connections to stable the wagons to load such items. In Mid Cornwall - even the Parkandillack branch has two siding connections - used by clay trains. Ponsondane is the only almost ready made loading facility, though this is hardly ideal and would create road congestion. St Blazey lower yard - where the scrap is loaded - has some potential.

[Gwiwer]

Whimsical for so long as there is no political will to place traffic on rail.

 

If there were incentives such as partial funding of loading facilities, then maybe we could see a little traffic return to rail.

 

Platform 4 at Penzance was used for loading the TPO and, in its brief resurrection, for loading the Motorail.  Could that not be used for van traffic to load an evening service once most of the passenger workings were done with?   An early morning up working might suit some customers better but that would conflict with the fairly frequent passenger service at those hours. 

 

Depending on traffic there is still Truro as a possible loading point and while there's nothing there now it wouldn't take a lot (other than will and a modest amount of money) to reinstate a facility at Drump Lane which could service the huge  area from the north coast to the Lizard.

 

Ed Burkhardt had his faults but working outside the square to get freight back on track wasn't one of them

[Fat Controller]

Whimsical for so long as there is no political will to place traffic on rail.

 

If there were incentives such as partial funding of loading facilities, then maybe we could see a little traffic return to rail.

 

Platform 4 at Penzance was used for loading the TPO and, in its brief resurrection, for loading the Motorail.  Could that not be used for van traffic to load an evening service once most of the passenger workings were done with?   An early morning up working might suit some customers better but that would conflict with the fairly frequent passenger service at those hours. 

 

Depending on traffic there is still Truro as a possible loading point and while there's nothing there now it wouldn't take a lot (other than will and a modest amount of money) to reinstate a facility at Drump Lane which could service the huge  area from the north coast to the Lizard.

 

Ed Burkhardt had his faults but working outside the square to get freight back on track wasn't one of them

The problem is that this introduces two further stages into the handling process, with the risk of delay and damage. In earlier days, farmers would use a tractor and trailer (or an ex-WD lorry) to deliver to the loading point; at the other end of the journey, railway wagons would go directly to wholesale markets, where the greengrocers would pick them up. With the demise of the majority of small greengrocers, and the shift to supermarkets, the chain is now articulated lorry direct from farm to supermarket distribution centre- it will take more than a few vans loaded in passenger stations to break into this market. Insulated containers might serve, perhaps if the supermarkets were already using them to deliver other produce to the south-west, but I won't hold my breath.

Even in France, where there are purpose-built facilities in several places in the south (this one at Perpignan, for example,:- http://goo.gl/maps/pUv6o), and a rail-served wholesale market at Rungis, Paris (http://goo.gl/maps/4foZ0), coupled with a much-larger number of greengrocers, the amount of fruit and vegetable traffic on rail is very small.

['CHARD]

Rail in the West is out of depot fuel and the perishables markets for good.  

 

Let's enjoy these, and other traffics, in our miniature worlds, where politics, out of town shopping, and First Group accountants are unheard of.

[Gwiwer]

Rail in the West is out of depot fuel and the perishables markets for good.  

 

Let's enjoy these, and other traffics, in our miniature worlds, where politics, out of town shopping, and First Group accountants are unheard of.

 

Yes indeed!

 

Where else could I see 37s hauling the silver bullets somewhat west of Burngullow and in the mere flick of the points a brace of 22s leading a lengthy mixed van train ...........

[The Stationmaster]

The problem is that this introduces two further stages into the handling process, with the risk of delay and damage. In earlier days, farmers would use a tractor and trailer (or an ex-WD lorry) to deliver to the loading point; at the other end of the journey, railway wagons would go directly to wholesale markets, where the greengrocers would pick them up. With the demise of the majority of small greengrocers, and the shift to supermarkets, the chain is now articulated lorry direct from farm to supermarket distribution centre- it will take more than a few vans loaded in passenger stations to break into this market. Insulated containers might serve, perhaps if the supermarkets were already using them to deliver other produce to the south-west, but I won't hold my breath.

Even in France, where there are purpose-built facilities in several places in the south (this one at Perpignan, for example,:- http://goo.gl/maps/pUv6o), and a rail-served wholesale market at Rungis, Paris (http://goo.gl/maps/4foZ0), coupled with a much-larger number of greengrocers, the amount of fruit and vegetable traffic on rail is very small.

Absolutely true Brian - rail hasn't had much of a chance in this sort of market (and still hasn't) for many years - the bulk simply isn't there for all destinations and neither is the convenience.  If you are talking large depot (e.g Wentloog) to large depot or very long distance then there are some possibilities but the old days of sending trains of loaded vanfits into Cornwall for a high percentage of them to return eastwards empty have gone, there is no way rail can beat door-to-door road transits on convenience and probably not on price.  And equally except on very specialised trainload flows, rail simply can't get into the 'just-in-time' market area for stuff which has a wide range of originating places and destinations, and a lot of supermarket produce moves on a 'just-in-time' basis because that best serves what we, the end customers demand as 'fresh food'.

[winterbournecm]

Yes indeed!

 

Where else could I see 37s hauling the silver bullets somewhat west of Burngullow and in the mere flick of the points a brace of 22s leading a lengthy mixed van train ...........

Absolutely - that's the great appeal of RM Web - where the real trains and models go side by side. I think our 1 foot / 12 inches discussions aren' as heavy and shouty as on some forums - which is why I like airing views on here.

[Gary H]

So what happens when the tanker divers go on strike, no trains! Well done First a single point of potential failure!

 

XF

Simple, they phone an agency and a driver is provided. Truck drivers with ADR are two a penny these days.

[Penlan]

....... and a lot of supermarket produce moves on a 'just-in-time' basis because that best serves what we, the end customers demand as 'fresh food'.

I went for a job 15+ years ago for a night shift operative in a cardboard box production company for supermarket products, they had three lines working with a forth on standby.... Just-in-time production because nowhere between product manufacture and the Supermarket shelf was there storage for more than 24 hours of products, be it the cardboard boxes, the contents or the supermarkets storage rooms.  IF two lines went down, the repercussions to the suppliers, wholesalers and retail outlets where not acceptable.

 

I didn't get the job, fortunately, I heard a month later they lost two days production and then 50% of their Contracts, and a reduction in their labour force too.

 

This Just-in-time economy is OK, if everything's working, otherwise...

[Gwiwer]

 

This Just-in-time economy is OK, if everything's working, otherwise...

 

 

A good lad is Justin Thyme.  When he bothers to work

[Cornish Triang Paul]

Abit late - class 57 has at least a daily service and refuelled. Sometimes A exam and of course, an problems that have occurred on down journey. Unsure about the last trip empty returns and have asked myself to no avail - ie nobody knows !

 

 

VERY small rumour about some intermodal in the future with PZ now having three supermarkets...........

[Gwiwer]

 

with PZ now having three supermarkets...........

 

 

And a new one going in at Hayle which is only a short road trip away.  Arguably cheaper to rail to PZ and road-haul the last 5 miles or so.  Trouble is that the "three supermarkets" aren't all the same chain so all make their own supply chain arrangements.  But we can live in hope.

[Captain Kernow]

Abit late - class 57 has at least a daily service and refuelled. Sometimes A exam and of course, an problems that have occurred on down journey. Unsure about the last trip empty returns and have asked myself to no avail - ie nobody knows !

 

 

VERY small rumour about some intermodal in the future with PZ now having three supermarkets...........

The number of supermarkets in Penzance is not a factor... (well, not a major one)

[Captain Kernow]

The real sadness is the over-all affect of these losses to the RAIL industry. The fact that 9 points at Penzance will have no regular traffic over them (East end Long Rock). The loss of another run around move at Par (and there are precious few as it is!). The rails further quietly rusting up in St Blazey yard and so on. Since returning to West in 2006 so much has gone. The CDAs east from Lostwithiel, the Burngullow - Scotland Silver bullet traffic, Moorswater cement, Cattewater oil & scrap.

Don't despair - this loss of fuel is a sad move for Cornish rail freight, but it's not over yet, not by a long way.

[Ramblin Rich]

Hooray  - Captain Kernow will save the day!

Although I was a bit worried after I saw a lorry that belongs to this outfit that you might have 'defected' to road haulage...

[Cornish Triang Paul]

EMPTIES due to be picked up fri 1 nov - no times yet but guessing normal time.

 

It was Esso NOT First who changed mode of transport found out today.

 

2 deliveries on a Monday then daily tues - fri.

[winterbournecm]

Hm, one train on rails verses 6 road tankers roaring through Crowlas & Cannonstown.

[Gwiwer]

And for those who remember recent events at Crowlas 12 more truck moves every week will go down like a lead balloon.  Particularly as they have the potential to turn very dangerous in any accident.

 

It might seem like a token gesture but those of us deeply troubled by such things could always choose to fill the car at a non-Esso location.

[Gary H]

Crikey, first the end of the TPO then Marshmills dry's, then Burngullow more or less shut, Moorswater finished and now the PZ tanks, the drivers at St Blazey (what there are left) must be wondering what there going to lose next! Apart from Fowey to Goonbarrow and Parkandillack, is there anything else left?

[Captain Kernow]

Apart from Fowey to Goonbarrow and Parkandillack, is there anything else left?

Yes, and some of us have aspirations to see more...

[Gwiwer]

As I noted above there is plenty of freight traffic to and from Cornwall and some locally within the Duchy.  The problem is winning it over to rail.  Mail was summarily dumped (OK the vans were getting older but ... ), Newspaper traffic was lost a little earlier, but there's supplies inward most of which have to be road-hauled for several hundred miles and there's vegetables, commercial flower-growing (which both have time and environment-critical transport needs), china clay is still going, there's newer and bespoke business such as the surfboard maker CK mentioned.  And with Philps Pasties now exporting Cornish Croust even they could make use of a spare corner in a refrigerated rail van.