BG John Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 517 0-4-2T, in all its main variants and liveries. I totally agree, but, as stated on gwr.org.uk "The 517 Class history is of almost unrivalled complexity – perhaps only the Metros approach them. Few 517s must have looked quite alike, and just about all of them changed radically in appearance over their lives – sometimes several times." I'm not sure we'd get the 19th and early 20th century versions that I would buy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) Good point, BG John, but the case is more the combination of elements for a particular locomotive for a particular period. The basics - 2 wheelbases, cab/bunker variations, round top or belpaire etc can all be planned for and to combine them to represent a particular locomotive at a particular period, stick to the photographs, of which there is no shortage. Edited June 20, 2015 by Edwardian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBAGE Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 No it wouldnt. They ran no where near Stockton and Darlington area. 324.jpg But that would be more than nice.... The other S and D. Nice photo. Yes, that would be a lovely model but I still have a London Road kit to build. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBAGE Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 517 0-4-2T, in all its main variants and liveries. Indulge me, if you will, or ignore me if you prefer, if I give some reasons for this choice. It is undeniably a very attractive locomotive. It spans the 1870s through to the 1930s. They were plentiful, widespread, ubiquitous. They saw enough variations, modifications and liveries to last a manufacturer, modeller or collector a lifetime. Pre-Nationalisation, the 517, not the 4800/14XX was the quintessential small branch line locomotive. I look forward to the Hattons 4800/14XX, not just because of the quality we can expect, but because, finally, a pre-war version will be available. Nevertheless, right up to the mid-'30s, the 517 predominated. Aside from a pair sent to Cornwall in the early '30s, the class was, I think I am right in saying, mainly conspicuous by its absence from the South West peninsular until the first one arrived for service on the Ashburton Branch in 1936. Certainly, the 4800s were not typical, or widespread, or in such numbers at the time as one might assume. The classic, if not clichéd, GW branch terminus between the wars layout would be much more representative with a 517. It is the 1950s, more than the '30s, when the 14XX and autocoach was the classic branch train. I will risk a word concerning some of the reasons why a model of this class would be a departure, but, nevertheless deserves to be considered. The intention is not to be polemical and I am really not up for a debate; if you don't want a 517, or more pre-grouping types, that's fine by me. We have seen a wonderful expansion in Grouping and Pre-grouping models, BUT, so far they tend to represent one of two trends; either the aim is to satisfy the majority BR modeller and earlier livery options are a sort of bonus available where the tooling for the BR version permits, or, the model represents a preserved example, which, more often than not, will not represent early careers in service. Now, I do not for a moment that there is anything wrong with that approach; it is commercially sound and has resulted in some wonderful models. I also appreciate that life is easier where there is something around to scan. BUT. Forgive me; no generation lasts forever. When things move on from those who remember the late '50s and '60s, what will we model? Will it only be Blue Diesels onward? Will steam outline be confined to mainline specials and preserved lines? The latter have not yet taken off to the extent one might expect given the ease with which RTR offerings allow preserved steam to be modelled. If steam outline is to survive to be modelled by those who do not recall the steam age, might not an option be to encourage exploration of the rich (and very colourful) eras before Nationalisation? This requires a manufacturer/commissioner to think beyond what has come before - attractive pre-grouping designs that saw long-lives across a whole system, but which didn't make it to the last 2 decades of steam and, hence, to a 'heritage' line. The 517 fulfils this brief, with the added advantage that, as GWR branch line terminus models will probably always be with us, this will not be a model for which it will be hard to find a home. Agreed. I think even a dyed in the wool BR(NE) devotee like myself might try to find a home for one of these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Well, RBAGE, the Nidd Valley found room for a GW Steam Railmotor, so stranger things have happened! In general I would welcome NER types. I have a weakness for anything pre-grouping, but the NER as a railway has it all and, yet, is one of the least well represented. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I would add that Dean Sidings has been contemplating a resin body kit of the 517 for years. I suspect there may be difficulties in fitting the tanks over the Airfix/Dapol/Hornby engine block, but, for whatever the reason, it hasn't gone ahead. My point in raising this is that Dean Sidings had, apparently, planned for all the main variants; the moulded parts would allow for the swapping in of different fireboxes and bunkers for example. I do not think it is beyond the wit of man to do this. It is beyond my wit, by a good way, but not, I imagine, beyond that of a locomotive designer/manufacturer. Apparently the Bachmann E4 body divides into parts just at the point necessary to substitute the parts necessary to back date it to Stroudley liveried days. Apparently, also, the Bachmann Earl body divides so as to allow the swapping in of a Bulldog boiler. This may be coincidental, and, even if it isn't, we could be in our graves before Bachmann is able to get around to such variants. But, these are examples of how design can allow the model to represent re-boilerings, new fireboxes, extended smoke boxes etc. I wish Hornby had shown such foresight with its T9 and Class 700, neither of which can represent their pre-grouping states. I would back DJM for a 517, not only because I anticipate that the accuracy and quality achieved is likely to be second to none, but also, I would guess, the experience of producing the 4800/14XX would stand that firm in good stead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 517 0-4-2T, in all its main variants and liveries. Don't forget you also have named example of Fair Rosamund (normally the Woodstock engine). Little quirks like that are always appealing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Don't forget you also have named example of Fair Rosamund (normally the Woodstock engine). Little quirks like that are always appealing. I hope what looks like a dent in the tank side, presumably where the number plate used to be, is included! I can't help feeling that it might be better to produce a kit, with a wide variety of mix and match parts. Certain variants could be sold as a complete kit, and combinations of parts could be bought for the builder to scratchbuild or adapt parts to create more versions. Other individuals or businesses could also produce parts for more variants. This seems ideal now 3D printing, resin casting, etching etc. is so accessible. I suspect that mass produced RTR would result in just the appealing versions like Fair Rosamund being produced, and appearing in just about any location where it wouldn't have been found in real life. There's no reason why small batches couldn't be produced RTR. Isn't that what OO Works do? I quite fancy one with the coach body style bodywork, but that would mean someone would have to produce a suitable autotrailer to go with it!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I quite fancy one with the coach body style bodywork, but that would mean someone would have to produce a suitable autotrailer to go with it!! I think that a suitable auto-trailer would be a good idea anyway. The Hornby one has always been compromised by being a hybrid of 2 different diagrams. Bachmann's forthcoming one is only suitable for post-nationalisation layouts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfaZagato Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 If pre-grouping designs are to ever considered viable, a Neilson box tank in N or 00 would be lovely. I do mean ala Neil from the Railway Series, and not Samson from Thomas and Friends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 My experience of GW/WR auto trains is that up to four autotrailers could be used on a regular service. Birmingham Snow Hill to Stourbridge was one good example, with the 14XX in the middle. The Oswestry Gobowen service always had two autotrailers with the 14XX at one end, Gobowen IIRC. So the market for autotrailers should be very lucrative. Particularly if DCC sound could be incorporated. And just like the real thing the train set could be almost permanently coupled making for easier operations at an exhibition, etc. My Airfix auto coach is waiting some way down the to do list for a necessary refurb, so I would be in the market for one or two should someone make them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) My experience of GW/WR auto trains is that up to four autotrailers could be used on a regular service. That is correct, the linkages were such that you could have up to 2 autcoaches on either side of the loco. The Plymouth-Saltash service was another that frequently had the loco sandwiched in the middle. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69978-Bachmann-br-wr-a38a40-auto-trailer/?p=1543895 An interesting point to not is that intermediate vehicles did not have to be auto-coaches. Some suburban coaches were fitted with through-linkages to allow them to be used between the loco and the auto-coach. Examples of diagrams C66 and C75 were fitted in this way for use in the Welsh valleys IIRC. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/Hirwaun_train_at_Merthyr_Tydfil.jpg Edited June 23, 2015 by Karhedron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Surely the natural companion for the forthcoming 4800 (and the 517, if one were to be produced (go on, you know you want to)), and the pendant to the Gate Stock, would be a new auto-coach by DJM? I am thinking 59' or 70' wood panelled ex-railmotor (I don't think the, rather extravagant, idea of converting the forthcoming RTR GW steam railmotor into an auto-coach will catch on!), and/or, a matchboard trailer! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 The DoT rule governing trains in those days stated that the max number of coaches allowed to be propelled in passinger service was only 2. Thats why most of the EMU`s, like the MSA joint stock had 1 motor coach and 2 trailers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 How much of an auto-coach like No92 does the railmotor give you? Obviously they are closely related and share the same overall 70' length. Could Dave be persuaded to incorporate the necessary work into the Railmotor toolings to allow for a matching auto-coach to be produced at a later date (either by Kernow, Hattons or under his own brand)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Dave would you be open to doing a Class 87? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 Dave would you be open to doing a Class 87? A direct question deserves a direct answer.................. YES, and an 86 with alternate ends, panto and bogies etc Note to all, i wont necessarily be as direct with questions in future ;-) cheers Dave 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBAGE Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Dave would you be open to doing a Class 87? Advice on how to get a direct answer would be most welcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted July 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 2, 2015 How about one of these Dave? 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bedding Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 How about one of these Dave? Possibly a better suggestion than apparent at first glance. Firstly, others have detected and commented on the steady increase in interest for pre-grouping r-t-r. Secondly, the Southern was often happy to extend the life of its ex-LSWR heritage stock, and this particular steam railcar was typical of several which, when altered, survived into Southern days. Typically around Portland and Plymouth. I can pre-order now if required. PB 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Just thought Id ask this here as Im not sure how viable or popular the idea would be. What are the chances of a run of engines like the J94/Austerity in plain plastic with no paint, allowing the buyer to paint them into their own livery? Would costs be reduced to make it more appealing if painting isnt needed, or would such an order need to be placed in numbers by those wanting one to gain enough backers for the run to be commissioned? Thanks in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Just to follow on from the last post, how easy is DJM's lettering to remove? If fairly easy the plain black BR low-bunker version of the J94 should be a good starting point for a number of industrials- Hunslet tended to start with a black loco and then paint and line out a panel on the tank side- see Hattons West Yorkshire example. All the best Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 Just thought Id ask this here as Im not sure how viable or popular the idea would be. What are the chances of a run of engines like the J94/Austerity in plain plastic with no paint, allowing the buyer to paint them into their own livery? Would costs be reduced to make it more appealing if painting isnt needed, or would such an order need to be placed in numbers by those wanting one to gain enough backers for the run to be commissioned? Thanks in advance. Hi, Taking into account demand, and minimum orders and what a customer would be willing to pay for one, an unpainted loco is a non starter i'm afraid, sorry. cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoovered Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 A direct question deserves a direct answer.................. YES, and an 86 with alternate ends, panto and bogies etc Note to all, i wont necessarily be as direct with questions in future ;-) cheers Dave 87 -- 86 -- how about going the other way with an 89. Sorry Dave , but I will keep asking. Roger. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfaZagato Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I've noticed there's no market for 'naked' locomotives in the UK or on the Continent like there is in the US. Am I to gather that is on account of how much was done in-house on English and European systems, against the third-party approach favored in the US? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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