chaz Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 You say boring stuff but not all on here have experience of building boards. A novice would do well to follow your methods. These things are often just skimmed over. Don Fair enough Don. I take your point. I said "boring" because it has become boring for me. So far I have built and installed seven boards, all to the same basic design. I have two more assembled "dry" and almost ready to install and need to make one more to complete the circuit. The first couple were interesting, after that... The plywood sandwich design gives a strong, stable board with no clever joints to cut. Should you want to drop a board (for a bridge or an embankment, a fill in the U.S.!) The cross beams make it easy to support the roadbed and scenery formers. providing you can mark out accurately and cut a reasonably straight line the frames are not difficult. I fix the legs in the corners, screwing through the frames into the legs, in two directions. I cut them so that they are a little lower that the board tops. This allows up and down adjustment. I should say that there is no element of portability to the FVRR. It is very definitely fixed, legs screwed to the chipboard floor, track laid across baseboard joints without a break etc. A slightly different approach would be necessary to make the layout portable but it can be done. Dock Green has baseboards to the plywood sandwich design but the strips of ply' are thinner and deeper. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) Very, very boring - I spent a large part of today moving all the stuff that was stacked against this wall... ...this will allow me to fit the last three baseboards. of course moving all the stuff has made the other end a bit of a mess... I did take the chance to throw out quite a lot of the "what am I keeping this for?" stuff. However once the circuit is complete I will struggle to find a home for the 4 x 2 sheets. ------------------------------------------------------------------- This evening I found time to cut the ply' strips for the last frame. So progress has been made. During the day I found myself looking wistfully at the half finished trees. Chaz Edited August 15, 2016 by chaz 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 14, 2016 Author Share Posted August 14, 2016 Boring stuff becomes interesting when you can see an end in sight, or at least you can feel motivated to push on and finish. A spot of luck! I put in the baseboard that runs alongside the hatch today. I wasn't sure where the leg would be relative to the hatch. In fact there is a 12mm clearance between the two. A G cramp is just visible at the top of the leg, which will not be fixed permanently until the circuit round the roof is complete in case any vertical misalignment needs to be corrected. I have gone right round the roof with eleven separate boards - they have all been set with a spirit level but is possible that any small errors might have accumulated. Visible on the top of the baseboard are the parts for the last frame, ready for assembly tomorrow. A view with the hatch open shows that this will swing without clashing with the baseboard which will cross behind it, there is plenty of room. Chaz 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Chaz - perhaps a laser level would help? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 (edited) Chaz - perhaps a laser level would help? Yes, it would! A very good idea, Jeff - but Peter is coming round this morning to help me to fit the last two boards in about four hours (as I type this) so I think we are going to have to manage without. A pity I didn't get one before I started fitted boards.... Everything may turn out right - I find it impossible to judge at the moment and that's where the laser level would help a lot. I have my fingers crossed that when the last two frames go in the "last spike" isn't too far out of kilter. A small error should be adjustable over the span of the four plain boards, each four feet long......shouldn't it? Chaz PS - in an earlier post I suggested that I would struggle to find a place to store the remaining pieces of plywood. These have been cut to 4 x 2 feet and will in fact go under the baseboards alongside the hatch. They will be used to make the frames for the terminal if and when.... Edited August 15, 2016 by chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted August 15, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 15, 2016 Yes, it would! A very good idea, Jeff - but Peter is coming round this morning to help me to fit the last two boards in about four hours (as I type this) so I think we are going to have to manage without. A pity I didn't get one before I started fitted boards.... Everything may turn out right - I find it impossible to judge at the moment and that's where the laser level would help a lot. I have my fingers crossed that when the last two frames go in the "last spike" isn't too far out of kilter. A small error should be adjustable over the span of the four plain boards, each four feet long......shouldn't it? Chaz PS - in an earlier post I suggested that I would struggle to find a place to store the remaining pieces of plywood. These have been cut to 4 x 2 feet and will in fact go under the baseboards alongside the hatch. They will be used to make the frames for the terminal if and when.... While the floor may not be exactly level it should at least be flat. So measuring from the floor should at least avoid a step or more than a few millimeters which a bit of packing should sort out. The laser needs to be levelled itself. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 As for levelling the boards a water level would be the quickest easiest way and just as accurate as a lazer in a small space but much better than a spirit lever. Which ever are used it is down to accurate reading and marking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 (edited) Not at all boring - just very, very satisfying. Peter arrived this morning with an eight foot length of square tubing. He has all sorts of goodies stashed in his garage! We were able to lay this across the gap to check the levels. We put a spirit level on the top of the tube. A little judicious packing under the baseboard on the left (the one with the turntable) and we were able to get the bubble to show level. The picture shows the bubble before we added any packing - pretty close! After a day's work the two baseboards are in, fixed to their legs and the legs anchored to the floor with steel brackets. The frames are bolted to each other and to the frames on either side. Two problems remain. The fitting on the left is an ugly mess. The baseboard with the turntable is a bit of a bodge - I widened it to fit the TT in but the result is not elegant. It doesn't look very level but that's because of that tapered gap. As this area will always be non-scenic (part of the staging area) this matters less than might be imagined but I will try to tidy it up. I am holding that piece of track on the approximate intended alignment and at the point where it crosses the two sides of the join the baseboard tops are level. This is the only track I plan to lay across this join. The other problem is on the other side where the board does not reach right into the corner. The resultant gap may be unimportant - it's quite likely that it will disappear under scenery. If I do need to close the gap it shouldn't prove too difficult. The inside of this corner may be treated to a triangular fillet in due course. Whether or not I do that depends, among other things, on the track alignment. One or two little finishing touches are needed but after a good clear up the temporary circuit of track can be laid and then.... trains will run! Chaz Edited August 15, 2016 by chaz 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Hope you plan on staying in your house for the while - considering a house move when having a fixed layout would present some tough decisions...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 Hope you plan on staying in your house for the while - considering a house move when having a fixed layout would present some tough decisions...... Good point! We have lived in this house since 1974, the mortgage is paid off and we have recently paid for a new kitchen and bathroom (ironic as there is now no bath in it!). I think we can be said to be well rooted! Chaz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mudmagnet Posted August 16, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 16, 2016 Great progress! Will any of the boards fit through the loft hatch? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 Great progress! Will any of the boards fit through the loft hatch? They might, but I wont be trying. The layout is fixed - strictly non-portable. Chaz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 The MoW gang were in action today (even though the heat in the roof space was almost unbearable) putting down the temporary track. The curve onto the new board, in front of the turntable, is to 22 inch radius. I would prefer at least two feet but this curve will need to be that tight to make it possible to fit the wye in. By laying this temporary track to that radius it gives me a chance to test the stock around it before I relay with hand-laid code 83. I drove a test run of #7 from staging to the current end of the metals - to check the joints etc. Although I have to admit I also enjoyed a longer run from the girder bridge, through the tunnel and the staging and then on to these two boards. The Peco 00 track is stuff I saved from an HO DB layout which I dismantled at least twenty years ago. It's been in a box tucked away in the roof - kept just in case. Some of it was used for the staging tracks. The trees? - unfinished and just plonked there to keep them out of the way. I am taking a break tomorrow but the MoW gang will be back in action towards the end of the week. Chaz 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 18, 2016 Author Share Posted August 18, 2016 (edited) I continued tracklaying today with more of the Peco temporary circuit put in place. At the other end I came to a stop. I am faced with a decision, do I hand-lay the missing section or lay the Peco right round to the existing end of the hand-laid metals? I will decide tomorrow after some sort of mental audit of how much scenic work remains to be done on the bridge section. Given that laying the remaining Peco will not take very long I think I can guess which way I will jump... Incidentally the green paper rectangle represents the footprint of the depot building that will stand at the baseboard front - the trains passing behind it. the last photo today is looking along the rather nice alignment of the track along the long side. Even though these are only temporary metals I rather like that gentle S curve, so different to the curves seen elsewhere on the layout. I will try to preserve the look when I replace the Peco. How well I can do that will depend on the switches I will need at that end of the station. PS - apologies for some of the wayward verticals in these snaps - to get the views I wanted I put aside my compact and put a 20mm lens on the Nikon. As the photographers among you will know such a wide angle lens will produce some extreme perspective if it's not kept level - tilt it at your peril! Chaz Edited August 19, 2016 by chaz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted August 18, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 18, 2016 Apologies if you've said before Chaz but what height have you set the board tops above the floor? I've a similar roof space but with taller side walls and am wondering about mounting height. I'm used to exhibition layouts mounted at c4' but that won't work for me as, at that height, the roof sections would preclude a decent backscene. Instead I'm thinking of desk height which has the benefits of operating from a sitting position, helping with reaching across 970mm deep boards and giving enough wall above board for a backscene. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 18, 2016 Author Share Posted August 18, 2016 Apologies if you've said before Chaz but what height have you set the board tops above the floor? I've a similar roof space but with taller side walls and am wondering about mounting height. I'm used to exhibition layouts mounted at c4' but that won't work for me as, at that height, the roof sections would preclude a decent backscene. Instead I'm thinking of desk height which has the benefits of operating from a sitting position, helping with reaching across 970mm deep boards and giving enough wall above board for a backscene. My baseboards are set at about 40 inches. I would also have preferred to set them higher but this would have forced a smaller area as the slope of the ceiling would reduce headroom. It's always going to be a case of balancing one compromise against another - but then that's railway modelling, is it not? Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 18, 2016 Author Share Posted August 18, 2016 Decision made. The Peco will be laid round to the bridge approach. I will add a short section of code 83 from the existing rail ends to the point where the first switch will be, so next job will be the 83/100 transition piece. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted August 19, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 19, 2016 I had the same problem in my last place the loft room had a height of 49 inches to the start of the roof slope. As I needed to store some of my clothes under the railway I need the boards at 40 inches or so which was going to make it awkward to get the image of Cader Idris to look right. I realised that sitting down it would look ok but that standing the backscene would look a bit low. However the backscene horizon should be at eye level which means it will always be a compromise between sitting standing and even different peoples heights. Desk height sounds a little low to me how about kitchen worktop height 3ft It gives a reasonable view sat in a chair. My problem has been resolved by a move I just have a different problem the station will be split between two rooms there was a road bridge there and I think it may work visually but have implications for operating. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted August 19, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 19, 2016 Sorry for the interjection but when I built Bacup, it was housed in an attic room and therefore the baseboard height was pretty low, about 3' from floor level. Superceding locations for the layout were in normal rooms but as I operated it sat in an office chair, it was the perfect height. Operating in the comfort of your own home, why not make the boards lower and sit in comfort? I'm sure we've all suffered from Operator Leg Fatigue after a long day at an exhibition; why voluntarily suffer the same with a permanent home based layout? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 Sorry for the interjection but when I built Bacup, it was housed in an attic room and therefore the baseboard height was pretty low, about 3' from floor level. Superceding locations for the layout were in normal rooms but as I operated it sat in an office chair, it was the perfect height. Operating in the comfort of your own home, why not make the boards lower and sit in comfort? I'm sure we've all suffered from Operator Leg Fatigue after a long day at an exhibition; why voluntarily suffer the same with a permanent home based layout? You are quite right about "Operator Leg Fatigue after a long day at an exhibition". I always get home exhausted having taken Dock Green to a show. I will just say that I have never operated a home layout for a whole day - a couple of hours with a break in the middle for tea and a nag suits me better. there are advantages to placing the layout at 4 feet - but the FVRR is only four inches above your three feet so we are in broad agreement. If you have to set the height lower choose your seating to match - yes? Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 (edited) I finished the code 83 to code 100 adapter piece this morning. A short length of code 100 Peco Streamline soldered to the PCB. Two very short pieces of code 83 also soldered but with squares of brass to pack the height. Rail joiners on all four projecting rail ends are soldered to the rails to keep them in place. Here is the adapter joining the hand laid to the temporary track which completes the circuit. It is held in position by the track coupled to it on either side, with just one track pin through the last tie on the code 100 side. I have made no attempt to improve the look - no replacement ties in the big gaps at the track joins, no ballast. I do hope that this temporary connection doesn't turn out to ape income tax. The idea is that as I move on to develop the next section I will cut the Peco back, lay the code 83 hand laid track and reposition the adapter. Eventually the adapter will reach its final position - the exit track from the staging. Although I can now run a train or two it's not really that exciting yet. The route can only be from the staging and back in either direction, with no switching possible - no stations yet. That hasn't stopped me having a play. Chaz Edited August 20, 2016 by chaz 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 Looking at this photo' caused me to reflect. I know that some people use 00/HO track for their narrow gauge layouts but unless you completely bury the ties the effect is not going to be all that convincing. I suppose a reasonable compromise would be to use Peco's On30 track - but I wanted to make my own. It takes much longer but is worth the effort IMHO. Chaz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 I know that some people use 00/HO track for their narrow gauge layouts but unless you completely bury the ties the effect is not going to be all that convincing. I suppose a reasonable compromise would be to use Peco's On30 track - but I wanted to make my own. It takes much longer but is worth the effort IMHO. Chaz I'm planning to take out alternate sleepers on my O-16.5 layout, then bury the track in ballast and undergrowth to hopefully hide most of it. Although my layout will be a British line that's still busy, but the infrastructure is wearing out and there isn't the money to replace it, so will probably close within 5-10 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 (edited) You might want to look at the Micro Engineering code 70 and code 83 On30 track. It is truly designed for On30 whereas the Peco is really O-16.5 and is a reasonably good representation of the Glyn Valley 2'4" gauge. My Leesburg layout uses code 70 Edited August 20, 2016 by Jeff Smith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 You might want to look at the Micro Engineering code 70 and code 83 On30 track. It is truly designed for On30 whereas the Peco is really O-16.5 and is a reasonably good representation of the Glyn Valley 2'4" gauge. My Leesburg layout uses code 70 Thanks for the suggestion, but I am committed to spiked rails on wood ties and switches built on the Fast Tracks system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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