Prometheus Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I'm extremely close to taking the plunge and purchasing one of these rather nice kits to introduce some much-needed variety into my coach rakes which, to date, are all r-t-r in one form or another. I have read postings on here, and have read the MRJ No.66 article by Guy Williams, and so have an idea about what to expect. However, unless I have missed some of the detail [not unlikely], all are silent on one or two issues: underframe construction and ideal replacement bogies. The notion of soldering small, fine detail fills me with dread. Consequently, how much brasswork / wirework is involved in the construction of everything 'below stairs' ? The issue of free-running has also been touched upon, with suggestions that the bogies can be bettered. Which alternatives should I look to if I cannot satisfactorily construct what is supplied ? Two imperatives would govern here: affordability and ease of attachment to the chassis. I'd very much appreciate members' thoughts on the above, from your own experiences. Nothing quite like learning from the findings of others...... Many thanks. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Riley Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I've built four of these and generally pleased with them. There isn't a lot of soldering involved. The sprung bogies are quite nice but have inside bearings so are not as free running as one with pinpoint bearings. The most fiddly part is assembling the scissors gangways but the result looks good and is worth the effort. Each coach has about 350 separate parts including the small washers for the gangways, handles etc. I find the new Hornby Star will jsut manage the four toplights on the level. If you want to run longer trains you might want to use bogies with pinpoint bearings. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 Thanks for the response Mike - appreciated. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Riley Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Tony, I don't know if these are available at the moment. I bought the first kit from Coopercraft who have taken over the 4mm scale Slater's range. Delivery was very slow. The other 3 came from HA Models who were very prompt but I see on the their web site that they are all out of stock. The Coopercraft site doesn't state stock levels. Good luck with them if you can find them, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 I did wonder about this Mike. I have e-mailed Coopercraft to query availability but guess I'll have to start digging too. The 'wanteds' on here is as good a place to start as any - there must be dozens of unmade Toplights languishing across the UK...... Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 When I last saw CooperCraft at a show (I think it was Wells in August), they didn't have any complete kits of the Toplights (that I could see), but they did have most (or maybe all) of the constituent parts, e.g. sides, underframe, interior being sold as separate bits. No idea if that helps! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Riley Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 When I last saw CooperCraft at a show (I think it was Wells in August), they didn't have any complete kits of the Toplights (that I could see), but they did have most (or maybe all) of the constituent parts, e.g. sides, underframe, interior being sold as separate bits. No idea if that helps! That will be 350 separate bits Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Riley Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Looking back through another thread on this forum (under smaller suppliers) there is a legal issue between the current owner of Coopercraft and Slaters. So it could be while, if ever, before the toplights kits reappear. Glad I got mine in 2012. No sign of any on ebay. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Ahhhhh...best laid plans. I'm a patient man though, I'll keep looking. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassey Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I have a few of these to make and am working on replacing the bogies with Brassmasters. Some toplights had 8' and others 9' bogies so it is essential to get the correct one from Brassmasters. IIRC the Slater's break third has 9' but the others are 8'. I also managed to get some Blacksmith versions from him too at a show before that range completely dissappears. All will use pinpoint bearings. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Riley Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I have a few of these to make and am working on replacing the bogies with Brassmasters. Some toplights had 8' and others 9' bogies so it is essential to get the correct one from Brassmasters. IIRC the Slater's break third has 9' but the others are 8'. I also managed to get some Blacksmith versions from him too at a show before that range completely dissappears. All will use pinpoint bearings. Peter The brake third and composite have fishbelly bogies and the all third American. It would not be difficult to use pin point bearings with the Slater's bogies. Just abandon most of the inner part of the assembly that provides the springing, drill out the axle boxes 2mm and fit top hat bearings. If I was starting again that's what I would do. I just liked the idea of the springing but then none of my other coaches have spring bogies. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I have a few of these to make and am working on replacing the bogies with Brassmasters. Some toplights had 8' and others 9' bogies so it is essential to get the correct one from Brassmasters. IIRC the Slater's break third has 9' but the others are 8'. I also managed to get some Blacksmith versions from him too at a show before that range completely dissappears. All will use pinpoint bearings. Peter As a general rule for the American type bogies, that I presume you are referring to, the shorter coaches (57') had smaller (8') bogies and the larger coaches (70') had larger bogies (9'), which catered for the additional mass they were to support. Some were built before this style of bogie as the above post relates. There was a tendency for bogies to be replaced and swapped about and as newer coaches and bogies appeared there were more possibilities for variations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I binned the Slaters bogies and replaced with cast types from 247 Developments. Only 3 parts per bogie and pre drilled for pin points. Added advantage of valuable extra weight low down where it is needed. Ifinatley better running than the Salters design. My Hornby Stars are quite comfortable with eight coach kit built coaches using the free running pin point bearing cast bogies such as the 247. As others have stated, with coaches that lasted as long as the toplights, there was much bogie swapping going on. I have used Americans on mine, which many of the toplights released with fishbelly bogies eventually received. I would not worry about 8ft or 9ft types. The toplight diner (never produced by Slaters) was built with an 8ft at one end and a 9ft at the other. Prototype for everything! Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 This is all really helpful stuff [for when I acquire one/some] but can I find any of these wretched Toplights anywhere ? You guessed it........... Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted January 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2014 No connection with seller. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Slaters-Coach-Kit-OO-gauge-GWR-57-Toplight-Brake-Third-Ref-4C017-Brass-plastic-/261374972522?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item3cdb29926a Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Thank you very much for highlighting this Robin - I'd missed it. Just have to win it now ! ATB Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted January 15, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2014 I replaced the American bogies with ones from David Geen. For the plate frame bogies, I couldn't source a white metal replacement of the correct wheelbase but I managed to bodge the Slaters ones into some sort of working order. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 I replaced the American bogies with ones from David Geen. For the plate frame bogies, I couldn't source a white metal replacement of the correct wheelbase but I managed to bodge the Slaters ones into some sort of working order. David also produces fishbelly for toplights as supplied in his own toplight kits. Mike Wilsthire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassey Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 This is all really helpful stuff [for when I acquire one/some] but can I find any of these wretched Toplights anywhere ? You guessed it........... Tony As per another thread on here, the manufacturer is down to attend the Southampton show in 2 weeks and ScalefourNorth in April. Whether he will have any stock for sale is a different matter but I have managed to acquire things from the stand in the past by getting to the shows early and making a point of visiting that stand first. Hope this helps. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 Thanks Peter, I'm pinning my hopes on the ever-mercurial eBay at present. If I'm unlucky, my next line will be shows. These kits are rather scarce currently however. Sooner or later I'll acquire one though and the notes posted above have been really useful. Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted January 15, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2014 My Coopercraft order is now 10 months over due. There are plenty of others here in the same boat. He doesn't answer emails, and rarely answers the phone. His website still takes payments though..... I hear that he appears at shows though. Probably the safest way to buy from Coopercraft. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 ....I hear that he appears at shows though. Probably the safest way to buy from Coopercraft. Currently the only way to buy from Coopercraft. I rather suspect he'll return your telephone messages only if he's dealt with you before.....a rather select list. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 I'd noticed; a recent[ish] e-mail has not evoked any response........ However, I've something more immediate to look forward to now - I pick up my Dukedog tomorrow afternoon ! Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted January 15, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2014 I'm 'in the market' for some toplights as well. I might well pop over to Soton and have a chat come end of the month. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassey Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I have reported on another thread that all the orders I have placed via the Cooper Craft website have been fulfilled; the last one being in December. The majority of my requirements have been "parts" but I have ordered and received complete Slater coach kits in the past but that could have been a couple of years ago. I recall that at a show in 2012 (Wigan?) I bought the only toplight kit on display at about 10:05am the show having opened at 10. There could have been a problem with stock and I could have just been lucky. Toplight kits are also available in the Mallard/Blacksmith range and David Geen does some too. Also there are some in the ShireScenes range on the Dart Castings/MJT site. All of these are etched brass... no connection etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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