Horsetan Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 ...the planed builds..... Evil planes don't make themselves Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Mike, Is this a Frogmore kit? So far as I am aware, Frogmore does not produce a D45 (your picture's file name). Blacksmith/Mallard produced a D47, though I don't have one, so cannot comment on its accuracy. I was beginning doubt this myself but a trip to Hartlepool has reassured me the Frogmore D45 does exist as there was an untouched flat Frogmore etch for (which is unlikely to be built). Om the question of 'correct' panels, I have been given a reality check lesson. The plan represents as (intended to be) built, and even then the plan was not always followed. I have been shown images proving coach bodies did not always get put on the pre assembled underframes the same way round, with battery boxes on the corridor side on some and the compartment side on others. With the D45 the two narrow panels on the end of the corridor may be 'as built, but this was changed/removed/plated as time went on. The panel instead of toplights is 'nearly' there as some had toplights plated over, as we know. I had not realised there were coaches with single, some but not all plated over. Golden rule. Find a pic and use it as a basis. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold A Murphy Posted January 7, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2017 For info: Last year I ordered an E82 brake composite from Dart Castings/Frogmore. There was some delay, because the E82 kit was out of stock. Eventually when it did arrive, I thought lovely job and put it in the stash. When I took it out a few weeks ago to work on it, I realised that it wasn't an E82, but a D46, not D45 - it clearly states D46 on the etch and checking against Russell v2, that is indeed what it is. I did e-mail Dart about this, but they didn't get back to me. I am very happy with my D46. However I really wanted an E82 composite - the type of coach that would have been detached/reattached to run forward to other destinations on its own. The E82 seems to have been Out of Stock ever since, which is a shame 'cos I'd like one of those too. best wishes, Alastair M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 For info: Last year I ordered an E82 brake composite from Dart Castings/Frogmore. There was some delay, because the E82 kit was out of stock. Eventually when it did arrive, I thought lovely job and put it in the stash. When I took it out a few weeks ago to work on it, I realised that it wasn't an E82, but a D46, not D45 - it clearly states D46 on the etch and checking against Russell v2, that is indeed what it is. I did e-mail Dart about this, but they didn't get back to me. I am very happy with my D46. However I really wanted an E82 composite - the type of coach that would have been detached/reattached to run forward to other destinations on its own. The E82 seems to have been Out of Stock ever since, which is a shame 'cos I'd like one of those too. best wishes, Alastair M The plot thickens, D45 on the listing, D46 on the etch.. They are basically the same coach with the 46 being a foot shorter. As Edwardian has shown, both should have the twin panels at the compartment end. Mike Wiltshire Charlton D46 Zinc sides for comparison. MW Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted January 8, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2017 There is now a Poll to see of we can persuade a manufacturer to make some R-T-R models: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/118689-gwr-toplights-poll/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenL Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 By 1947 the paneled toplights general service stock, were coming to the end of their lives with most general stock gone by the mid 1950's. As for condition, life extension repairs saw much of the paneling removed. As an example he is a close up of a Brake third in the late 40's with few of the original panels lefts. Every door on this one had been replaced with steel panels. On the plus side, the Slater's kit can have the panels filled in with plasticard. Toplight D80 4226 insignia.jpg Mike Wiltshire Thanks very much for posting this shot Mike. Would you be able to say what diagram it is and where I might be able to find the full picture if it's publicly available? I was aware of the paneling being replaced in later life but I found a couple of late 40s shots of Toplight brake thirds in the Russell books which at first glance appeared to have much of their original paneling in place, but I would have to have another look to confirm this. I'm away from my books at the moment but I made a note to myself and if anyone is interested, the details of the shots are as follows: D52 in postwar GWR livery on p77 of vol 1 of Russell's coach appendix D46 in postwar GWR livery on p63 of Russell's pictorial record of GW coaches These struck me as great examples to model but the D46 would depend on getting hold of a Frogmore etch which from Mike's experience seems to have some errors, while the D52 would be a David Green kit, which I understand to be rather tricky. I'm wondering if a CooperCraft or Blacksmith D47 might be the best bet as it seems at least some were not converted into ambulance stock and lasted into the postwar period in original condition albeit with the likely loss of some panelling, which as Mike suggests could be represented on the Slaters kit by the addition of some strategically placed plasticard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 it is a D80. See pm Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigw Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 I contacted CPL yesterday and received a reply overnight. On his site he has the etch for the C30 shown and I am ordering a C30 and C18 Clerestory. If you look under etches there are several different 4mm scale ones shown as well as a listing. The C30 appears to be the only currently available Toplight etch. Regards, Craig W I arrived home from work today to find a parcel containing etches for the C30 toplight and C18 Clerestory. So, ordering from CPL is entirely practical and possible. Very well packed too. Highly recommended! Craig W Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowardGWR Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Thanks very much for posting this shot Mike. Would you be able to say what diagram it is and where I might be able to find the full picture if it's publicly available? I was aware of the paneling being replaced in later life but I found a couple of late 40s shots of Toplight brake thirds in the Russell books which at first glance appeared to have much of their original paneling in place, but I would have to have another look to confirm this. I'm away from my books at the moment but I made a note to myself and if anyone is interested, the details of the shots are as follows: D52 in postwar GWR livery on p77 of vol 1 of Russell's coach appendix D46 in postwar GWR livery on p63 of Russell's pictorial record of GW coaches These struck me as great examples to model but the D46 would depend on getting hold of a Frogmore etch which from Mike's experience seems to have some errors, while the D52 would be a David Green kit, which I understand to be rather tricky. I'm wondering if a CooperCraft or Blacksmith D47 might be the best bet as it seems at least some were not converted into ambulance stock and lasted into the postwar period in original condition albeit with the likely loss of some panelling, which as Mike suggests could be represented on the Slaters kit by the addition of some strategically placed plasticard. On Russell photos, it's useful to be aware that the 50s photos (apart from being possibly much modified examples) are of much poorer quality in definition, than works photos. Once one knows that a component ought to be there, it then begins to emerge that it is. A lot of panelling on toplights, for example, is very difficult to discern on the 50s photos, some of which are so vague in the detail,that I mistakenly thought one coach pictured had no end lamp holder bracket, but with the magnifying glass, I discovered it was indeed there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted January 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2017 I arrived home from work today to find a parcel containing etches for the C30 toplight and C18 Clerestory. So, ordering from CPL is entirely practical and possible. Very well packed too. Highly recommended! Craig W Good to know, I'm currently debating ordering some of their J12 sleeper sides, (which sadly are not available from stock.). Always a little nervy putting a large deposit up front given the tendency of some small traders to take your money and never follow through with your order. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 I arrived home from work today to find a parcel containing etches for the C30 toplight and C18 Clerestory. So, ordering from CPL is entirely practical and possible. Very well packed too. Highly recommended! OT but yes, just before New Year I had a parcel the size of a kitchen flagstone arrive from CPL, containing a scratch-aid etch for an AEC single Railcar. Although it doesn't claim to have every single detail (and indeed it doesn't), the layout is quite logical and neatly executed. Very reasonably priced too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Word of caution with the CPL sides. On the ones I have used, there is a half etch inside the windows to allow for almost flush glazing. The downside is the brass is VERY thin around the windows and liable for distortion. Yes I put a dent in the frame which was fun to knock out. For the second one I put chuncky masking tape of the sides until I was ready to final detail the sides. You can still put the hinges through (and the tape holds them in place). The second one did not distort. Hope it helps. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Word of caution with the CPL sides. On the ones I have used, there is a half etch inside the windows to allow for almost flush glazing. The downside is the brass is VERY thin around the windows and liable for distortion. Yes I put a dent in the frame which was fun to knock out. For the second one I put chuncky masking tape of the sides until I was ready to final detail the sides. You can still put the hinges through (and the tape holds them in place). The second one did not distort. Hope it helps. Mike Wiltshire This helps because CPL kindly sent me a copy of an etch and I was hoping that what I suspected was half-etching inside of the windows wasn't! But now I know it is, I have a feeling that fitting glazing is not going to be a bundle of laughs. Recesses have never been necessary when etching on 12thou in 4mm scale and 15thou in 7mm scale. Seeing as I am not intending going into full production with 7mm scale coaches by etching my own, I have been looking around at the coach kits on offer and it is not exactly cheering me up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenL Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Thanks very much for posting this shot Mike. Would you be able to say what diagram it is and where I might be able to find the full picture if it's publicly available? I was aware of the paneling being replaced in later life but I found a couple of late 40s shots of Toplight brake thirds in the Russell books which at first glance appeared to have much of their original paneling in place, but I would have to have another look to confirm this. I'm away from my books at the moment but I made a note to myself and if anyone is interested, the details of the shots are as follows: D52 in postwar GWR livery on p77 of vol 1 of Russell's coach appendix D46 in postwar GWR livery on p63 of Russell's pictorial record of GW coaches These struck me as great examples to model but the D46 would depend on getting hold of a Frogmore etch which from Mike's experience seems to have some errors, while the D52 would be a David Green kit, which I understand to be rather tricky. I'm wondering if a CooperCraft or Blacksmith D47 might be the best bet as it seems at least some were not converted into ambulance stock and lasted into the postwar period in original condition albeit with the likely loss of some panelling, which as Mike suggests could be represented on the Slaters kit by the addition of some strategically placed plasticard. Further to my previous thoughts above about what kit to use to create a Toplight brake Third in 1947 condition, I've found a good shot of a D45 in GWR postwar livery with a nice mix of original and repaired panels which would be interesting to try to recreate. If anyone is interested, the shot is at the top of p72 of Russell's GW Coaches Appendix Vol 1. I understand from the CPL site that they do an etch of a D45 in 4mm: http://www.cplproducts.net/toplights-gwr.html Does anyone have experience of using this etch and/or thoughts about its accuracy? Many thanks in advance for any insights anyone can provide, Ben Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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