Slater's GWR Toplights......

[rovex]

Slightly confused by your response - the diagram nos. mentioned are for sale, suggesting he has produced them.  Do you mean other Toplight diagrams would be produced if you produced drawings?

 

 

Sorry didn't mean to confuse, its the latter. Taken direct from his website

 

"You don't have to restrict your request to our list just ask for what you want. .....If you can provide the details we can supply the kits"

 

http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/4mm/4mm_Index.htm

[hayfield]

I have been in touch with Worsley Works previously and if you can source drawings for the sides he is willing to etch them for you. I suppose the common sources are Russell's tomes on the subject. 

 

I am also aware that someone else on here has used the PC kits with replacement brass sides - Hayfield was that you?

 

 

Sorry no I have bought some Slaters sides to try a conversion

[HowardGWR]

I've seen 'concertinas', let alone 'toplights', in the Russell books, in daily service in the early 50s.  In answer to an earlier point, Comet only did South Wales stock onwards.  I've always assumed that was because of the already-available Slaters kit products (and others such as PC, BSL, I imagine?).  Perhaps some of us longer in the modelling tooth may remember.

[Edwardian]

I've seen 'concertinas', let alone 'toplights', in the Russell books, in daily service in the early 50s.  In answer to an earlier point, Comet only did South Wales stock onwards.  I've always assumed that was because of the already-available Slaters kit products (and others such as PC, BSL, I imagine?).  Perhaps some of us longer in the modelling tooth may remember.

 

If I recall, BSL never did any panelled coaches whatsoever - perhaps the material(s) they used? - but I assume that they could have produced the steel-sided Toplights, still being produced in the early '20s, had they chosen to do so.  After all, they did produce LSWR Ironclads.

 

Some of the 70 footers, including the Dreadnoughts which were even older than the Concertinas, had extraordinarily long lives.  Further, they were in front-line express service for a very long time.  In part this is explained by the fact that no new 70 footers were built after the South Wales stock which was built up to 1923 or thereabouts.

 

Therefore, some 57' types will not, necessarily, have achieved similarly longevity, but there seem to be plenty of 1950s pictures in Russell. .

[rovex]

If I recall, BSL never did any panelled coaches whatsoever - perhaps the material(s) they used? - but I assume that they could have produced the steel-sided Toplights, still being produced in the early '20s, had they chosen to do so.  After all, they did produce LSWR Ironclads.

 

 

BSL did do panelled stock (they certainly did LNER types) but you had to stick the panelling on yourself. I don't recall seeing any GWR panelled stock in their catologue though

[coachmann]

People had to be around at the time to know why certain ranges of etched brass kit ranges were not the cure for all GWR diseases that today's modellers think they were...

 

Many of the 1970's and 80's kits were etched from hand-drawn artwork. Ill-fitting components is an understatement and knife-edge raised panelling tested my lining ability to the limit. People were buying the kits and putting them aside for the day when they could be built, while those who could afford to attempted to get them built & painted professionally. It doesn't surprise me so many are for sale unopened on Ebay.  

[billbedford]

 In answer to an earlier point, Comet only did South Wales stock onwards.  I've always assumed that was because of the already-available Slaters kit products (and others such as PC, BSL, I imagine?).  Perhaps some of us longer in the modelling tooth may remember.

 

 

Comet only produced the stock needed for a layout being built by the original proprietors.

[billbedford]

If I recall, BSL never did any panelled coaches whatsoever - perhaps the material(s) they used? - but I assume that they could have produced the steel-sided Toplights, still being produced in the early '20s, had they chosen to do so.  After all, they did produce LSWR Ironclads.

 

 

 I have see one BSL Gresley coach that was etched in aluminium.

[Brassey]

The Coopercraft guy has etched sides etc from Blacksmith on his stand at exhibitions in basic plastic bag packaging.  If the kit includes etched bogies they often come too.  What he doesn't have are castings though the last time I did see some 8' GWR American bogies for sale.

 

To me the Frogmore toplights range fills the gaps left by the others (is Slater/Blacksmith) which are now hard to get hold of

[Horsetan]

Worth asking Paul Bambrick at CPL Products if he has any 4mm scale etches in his range that might be of use.

[Craigw]

Worth asking Paul Bambrick at CPL Products if he has any 4mm scale etches in his range that might be of use.

 

He has a C30, C32 and D45 listed as already having been available in 4mm scale. He shows the C32 (etches only) as being in stock.

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[Edwardian]

Worth asking Paul Bambrick at CPL Products if he has any 4mm scale etches in his range that might be of use.

 

CPL is new to me, thanks.

 

Off topic but I was musing over Dreadnoughts

 

Mine are Trevor Charlton, but I find I could do with a second Composite and a second Van Third.

I see that these are produced by CPL.

 

I wondered how these might compare with the Haye Development ones.  Also I really do need the double-ended F13 70' slip, and I think Haye was the old one to produce them. 

 

Unfortunately I came across the rather sad news on the CSP site:

Update 14/9/2016.

As from today CSP Models will cease to trade. Sadly I have been diagnosed with a life limiting illness and can no longer operate the company. As there was little time to make any long term strategies I have taken the action which I think is best for me and the current  Agenoria range of kits.

Iain Young, who is my caster is taking over the business as from next Monday, 19th of September. Iain will continue with the present range and add some new kits as he gets a grasp of the business. Iains workmanship is exquisite and I am sure he will maintain the standard of quality which you all expect.

The same website will continue for now and you will have the same ability to buy on the cart system.

We have not yet made any decision about the other products. All Frogmore products are available from Dart Castings or Steve Manchip direct 01548 531451. No decision has yet been taken about Hayes Developments.

 

Obvious my thoughts and best wishes to the owner and hope that things work out for him.

[Coach bogie]

CPL is new to me, thanks.

 

Off topic but I was musing over Dreadnoughts

 

Mine are Trevor Charlton, but I find I could do with a second Composite and a second Van Third.

I see that these are produced by CPL.

 

I wondered how these might compare with the Haye Development ones.  Also I really do need the double-ended F13 70' slip, and I think Haye was the old one to produce them. 

 

Unfortunately I came across the rather sad news on the CSP site:

Update 14/9/2016.

As from today CSP Models will cease to trade. Sadly I have been diagnosed with a life limiting illness and can no longer operate the company. As there was little time to make any long term strategies I have taken the action which I think is best for me and the current  Agenoria range of kits.

Iain Young, who is my caster is taking over the business as from next Monday, 19th of September. Iain will continue with the present range and add some new kits as he gets a grasp of the business. Iains workmanship is exquisite and I am sure he will maintain the standard of quality which you all expect.

The same website will continue for now and you will have the same ability to buy on the cart system.

We have not yet made any decision about the other products. All Frogmore products are available from Dart Castings or Steve Manchip direct 01548 531451. No decision has yet been taken about Hayes Developments.

 

Obvious my thoughts and best wishes to the owner and hope that things work out for him.

 Sadly the death of Roger was posted in October on RM Web.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/115497-roger-slade-csphaye-developments/

 

The future of the Hayes range has not yet been resolved as far as I am aware.

 

Worsley Works produces Dreadnought body/floor kits. Having built both, the Worsley Works does not have the floor issues the Hayes D42 and C24 has. In addition Worsley, though not in his list, produce the D42/H2 tea car conversion, not previously available

http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/4mm/4mm_GWR.htm

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Coach bogie]

The Coopercraft guy has etched sides etc from Blacksmith on his stand at exhibitions in basic plastic bag packaging.  If the kit includes etched bogies they often come too.  What he doesn't have are castings though the last time I did see some 8' GWR American bogies for sale.

 

To me the Frogmore toplights range fills the gaps left by the others (is Slater/Blacksmith) which are now hard to get hold of

Beware if you purchase the Frogmore toplight brake third. There is a flaw on the corridor side where there is a panel where the toplights should be.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Clearwater]

Mike

 

For your worsley sides and ends, what do you do for floors and roofs?

 

Many thanks in advance

 

David

[Coach bogie]

Mike

 

For your worsley sides and ends, what do you do for floors and roofs?

 

Many thanks in advance

 

David

 They come with the floors/truss rods, Roof from David Geen.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[HowardGWR]

Toplights came into service mainly with fishbelly 9 ft bogies IIRC.  It's an odd thing but many potential 4 mm suppliers list this bogie but with a NYA or similar next to the price.

 

Is there a current supplier, if only cosmetic sides for this one?  For some reasons, it also seems to be mentioned as 1914 bogie or some other confusing nomenclature.

 

I find this point the only really confusing element in Michael Harris's book.  Sometimes a 9ft 'heavy duty' bogie is mentioned, indicating that there may have been a 'light duty' one.  Then there are the American ones at 9ft and 8ft.  The Harris book has a page with sketches of bogies but not all the ones I have mentioned seem to be displayed.

 

Does anyone have a handle on a complete classification of Swindon 9ft bogies that could have been seen on the toplights, concertinas, Dreadnoughts and contemporary brown vehicles?

[Miss Prism]

Howard - yes, the bogie names can be a bit confusing. The 1903 8' and 9' plate-frame bogie is often referred to as the 'volute' bogie, by virtue of its spring type. The epithet 'heavy' for the 1922 9' design is intended merely to distinguish it from the earlier 1914 9' 'light' bolster, aka the 'fishbelly'. The later 1932/3  9' 'pressed steel' design is distinguishable by its curved and flanged frame.

 

As for a comprehensive 'classification', I'm not convinced there is a great need for one. Some coach types and NPCS did change bogies over time, but this is usually easily identifiable from contemporary pictures.

[Brassey]

Beware if you purchase the Frogmore toplight brake third. There is a flaw on the corridor side where there is a panel where the toplights should be.

d45 fault.jpg

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Mike

 

Thanks.  I think I'd picked this up on a previous thread of yours.  Can you remind us, has the problem with the missing toplight been corrected in the photo you posted?  Is there a similar fault with the break composite?

 

Cheers

 

Peter

[Coach bogie]

Mike

 

Thanks.  I think I'd picked this up on a previous thread of yours.  Can you remind us, has the problem with the missing toplight been corrected in the photo you posted?  Is there a similar fault with the break composite?

 

Cheers

 

Peter

It has not been corrected on the the LH/RH brake thirds as far as I am aware.

 

No issues with the brake compo.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Edwardian]

 Sadly the death of Roger was posted in October on RM Web.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/115497-roger-slade-csphaye-developments/

 

The future of the Hayes range has not yet been resolved as far as I am aware.

 

Worsley Works produces Dreadnought body/floor kits. Having built both, the Worsley Works does not have the floor issues the Hayes D42 and C24 has. In addition Worsley, though not in his list, produce the D42/H2 tea car conversion, not previously available

http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/4mm/4mm_GWR.htm

 

h2.jpg

h8a.jpg

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Mike,

 

I had not realised the owner had passed away. I am sorry to learn that.

 

Thank you for the reminder/information concerning the Worsely Dreadnoughts.  I would need to ask the owner to produce the 70' slip, no doubt.  When next in funds!

 

Beware if you purchase the Frogmore toplight brake third. There is a flaw on the corridor side where there is a panel where the toplights should be.

d45 fault.jpg

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Mike,

 

Is this a Frogmore kit?  So far as I am aware, Frogmore does not produce a D45 (your picture's file name).  Blacksmith/Mallard produced a D47, though I don't have one, so cannot comment on its accuracy.

 

The Frogmore Van Thirds are D56 and are steel-sided and not panelled, and clearly have a pair of toplights over each corridor window (see below), as should be the case, though interestingly Russell says that on 2 Lots, of 1922 and 1925, the toplights

were omitted.

 

Was there some other Van Third, a panelled type, produced by Frogmnore that had this fault?  If so, I am unaware of it.  Perhaps it was withdrawn, as no such kit is listed on the Dart website, or, indeed, on the CSP site..

 

Mike

 

Thanks.  I think I'd picked this up on a previous thread of yours.  Can you remind us, has the problem with the missing toplight been corrected in the photo you posted?  Is there a similar fault with the break composite?

 

Cheers

 

Peter

 

Peter,

 

Similarly, the Frogmore Brake Composite, E82, also appears fine in this regard.  In that case the model has but a single toplight over the corridor window at each extremity, just as did the prototype, pictured in Russell Appendix, vol.1

[coachmann]

Earlier GWR 'Toplight' coaches were built with 8' and 9' American equalised bogies. Later 'Toplight' tended to have Fishbelly 9' bogies. As usual, use a photo of the Lot and period you are modeling, as bogies did switch around in later years.  All three types were in my 1980's Larriparts range, produced mainly for Lawrence Scale Models. I sold the range and they have done the rounds of the trade so I have no idea who has the moulds or patterns now. They are not as hot as today's standards but look okay when painted. 

 

Later bogies were the 9' Plate bogie (also in my range) and then two versions of Pressed Steel (Adrian Swain); one with long springs for passenger coaches and 'tother with short springs for non-passenger carrying coaching/van stock. I have not seen Toplights with pressed steel bogies.

[Edwardian]

Beware if you purchase the Frogmore toplight brake third. There is a flaw on the corridor side where there is a panel where the toplights should be.

d45 fault.jpg

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

I am intrigued as to what Diagram this is.

 

It does not seem to be D45, which appears to have had a wider panel, divided into 2, between the corridor window and the coach end, than shown on your model. 

 

The Slaters Van Third is a D47, and this has a similar arrangement, but with full height vertical panels above the waist band.

 

Clearly I am reaching the boundaries of my knowledge, which are never far away (!).

 

The Slaters D47:

[Coach bogie]

So far as I am aware, Frogmore does not produce a D45 (your picture's file name). 

 

 

 

Frogmore did produce a D45, it just did not appear in the CSP/Agenoria list. There was still one on the Shires Scenes stand at York last time I saw them.

 

http://www.shirescenes.co.uk/page6.html

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Edwardian]

Frogmore did produce a D45, it just did not appear in the CSP/Agenoria list. There was still one on the Shires Scenes stand at York last time I saw them.

 

http://www.shirescenes.co.uk/page6.html

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Thanks.  It was/is obviously a most elusive beast.  It is not listed on the link you provided (unless I just cannot see it for some reason) and isn't here either: http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/frogmore.php

 

For the reasons I have given, however, quite apart from the missing toplights, your coach end does not seem to be a match for D45, based upon the drawing in Russell, so I remain somewhat perplexed.