Washout at Dawlish

[Captain Kernow]

They might do well to take that offer up............

They'd be well advised to do that, the realignment of the tunnel alone is going to cost them so much, they'd save money on purchasing the software if Rod did it for them! (sorry Martin!).

[Mike Riley]

Does NR have a cunning plan to keep the line open while they do this realignment?  If not, how long will be the closure?

[10800]

They'd be well advised to do that, the realignment of the tunnel alone is going to cost them so much, they'd save money on purchasing the software if Rod did it for them! (sorry Martin!).

 

 

Templot has been free for a while now, Tim ... 

[Geoff Endacott]

I think I have finally worked out what the problem is.

 

Brunel was an idiot!

 

Geoff Endacott

[bgman]

I think I have finally worked out what the problem is.

 

Brunel was an idiot!

 

Geoff Endacott

 

And when you've learned your lesson write out 500 times ........

 

Vic Torian

[Zomboid]

I don't think Exeter to Plymouth could really be described as his finest work. The sea wall and then the hills that his atmospheric system failed to flatten aren't the best bits of the GWML.

[brianusa]

Thanks Cap'n for your informative explanation. It would appear that this is all 'pie in the sky', a long term plan for an even longer fix! For sure, you have to start sometime but what about a mega storm this winter or next, or in twenty years? And not only here; Cowley Bridge, the Somerset lowlands and others I know nothing of. This means an eternity of repairs, especially with the global warning consequences over this time period into the next century.

 

Now we're talking CPO's for the clifftop properties and elsewhere which will go over like the proverbial lead balloon. Okehampton is looking better all the time!!

 

Brian.

[locoholic]

... the new trains were supposed to be 'water resistent'.

 

Surely this is the answer - make the new trains very, very water resistent, and simply float them downstream from Cowley Bridge Junction, round the coast, and up some kind of slipway past Teignmouth, so they can resume their journey on the rails?

Edited November 30, 2016 by locoholic

[TheQ]

[royaloak]

What should never be forgotten about this firm is that they only appear to operate in a manner that's convenient to them and not their passengers, like terminating services at stations like Taunton when they could have easily run as far as Tiverton Jcn during the recent Cowley incident (sic) making it less convenient for its fare payers.

How do you get the trains back from Tiverton jn (or do youmean Parkway?) in a timely manner so they can pick up their return path?

 

Or are you saying you would have liked them to run through for your convenience but stuff everyone who would have been waiting an extra hour for the train to return?

 

When things go wrong like this it is NR who dictate what lines are available and the TOCs will try and formulate a workable plan as quickly as they can, but as the T3 started just South of Taunton I ask how you expect the trains to run to Tiverton when it is inside a possession?

[Captain Kernow]

How do you get the trains back from Tiverton jn (or do youmean Parkway?) in a timely manner so they can pick up their return path?

 

Or are you saying you would have liked them to run through for your convenience but stuff everyone who would have been waiting an extra hour for the train to return?

 

When things go wrong like this it is NR who dictate what lines are available and the TOCs will try and formulate a workable plan as quickly as they can, but as the T3 started just South of Taunton I ask how you expect the trains to run to Tiverton when it is inside a possession?

What John means here, and I'm speaking from lengthy personal experience from the NR side, is that there have been plenty of occasions when the possession starts to the south of Tiverton Jct, due to (say) flooding at Hele & Bradninch and perhaps Cowley Bridge Jct.

 

Under such circumstances, GWR have shown a consistent wish to run down from Taunton to terminate at Tiverton Parkway, and then cross over ECS back to the Up line via the crossovers at Tiverton Jct, this being a signalled move and one which Exeter Panel are very happy to offer.

 

With regard to XC, there is 35 - 40 minutes between a typical Down arrival at Taunton and the next Up departure, which is just sufficient to run to Tiverton Parkway, detrain, cross over and return to collect passengers from the Up line (yes it's admittedly tight, but do-able in my operational experience, even if a small delay was incurred, especially if there were passengers wishing to travel off buses at Tiverton Parkway to the North).

 

However, over the years, virtually since they became an Arriva TOC, XC have shown a marked reluctance to take any sets even remotely out of diagram. I accept that they may not have the resources immediately at hand, but there is no corporate desire to even seek to reshuffle resources to improve the service to customers. To be honest, with a blockage at Hele, say, and the line still open to Tiverton Jct, we'd be lucky if XC even went beyond Bristol TM half the time, and that is the truth as observed by myself and many other frustrated NR colleagues over the years.

 

Let's also not forget (as I'm sure you're personally aware, Royaloak), that Tiverton Parkway is significantly more convenient and easier for a bus to rail transfer and vice versa, as both Exeter and Taunton require a lengthy trip through the suburbs to get from the M5 to the railway station (especially in the case of Exeter), which is why a bus from Newton Abbot to Tiverton Parkway is so effective, when this can be arranged.

 

If in this last instance, the possession started just to the west of Taunton, eg. Norton Fitzwarren, then fair enough, but that would imply that there was some kind of problem between there and Tiverton Parkway (hopefully not at Whiteball, which has had a fortune spent on the drainage there in early 2014).

 

I would add that I do not believe that John was travelling himself on that date.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Captain Kernow

[bgman]

Taken earlier today from the Torbay Express HST approx 13.30

 

 

 

What a lovely trip on a fine day..... That's one reason why I live in the South West

[Re6/6]

http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2017-02-02/be-prepared-councils-warn-ahead-of-storm-doris/

 

Note that X/C Trains' Mr Andy Cooper's cra**y Voyager trains are again unable to transit the sea wall. The good old HSTs passed at low speed with no problem.

 

It's about time that X/C take their responsibilities to passengers seriously and go back to the previous franchise's (Virgin) operations in such conditions who used standby locos to haul the Vomiters. Mr Cooper obviously don't give a toss about public service and the company are too cheapskate to spend on the hire of such a loco.

[Siberian Snooper]

There has been some good footage of "tram " washing along the seawall on Spotlight news, this evening.

[phil-b259]

http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2017-02-02/be-prepared-councils-warn-ahead-of-storm-doris/

 

Note that X/C Trains' Mr Andy Cooper's cra**y Voyager trains are again unable to transit the sea wall. The good old HSTs passed at low speed with no problem.

 

It's about time that X/C take their responsibilities to passengers seriously and go back to the previous franchise's (Virgin) operations in such conditions who used standby locos to haul the Vomiters. Mr Cooper obviously don't give a toss about public service and the company are too cheapskate to spend on the hire of such a loco.

 

And how many days out of 365 in each year are XC unable to transit the sea wall?

 

Standby locos cost money to maintain, service and repair - if they don't get used regularly then they don't tend to be very reliable either.

 

Similarly drivers need to be trained and use such locos regularly to keep their traction knowledge up to date.

 

All in all a very expensive solution to a problem that, while frustrating, is not one that occurs day in day out.

 

That does not excuse the designers of the Voyagers from not considering the effects of salt water spray - but until XC gets new stock which is not susceptible to said salt spray, its not economic to do anything about it.

 

To conclude, the railway industry is expensive (regardless of who owns it) and UK taxpayers plus users expect to have their money spent wisely. Spending it on a fleet of 'just in case' diesel locos is not good value for money.

Edited February 2, 2017 by phil-b259

[royaloak]

Just seen this so sorry for late reply-

What John means here, and I'm speaking from lengthy personal experience from the NR side, is that there have been plenty of occasions when the possession starts to the south of Tiverton Jct, due to (say) flooding at Hele & Bradninch and perhaps Cowley Bridge Jct.

 

Under such circumstances, GWR have shown a consistent wish to run down from Taunton to terminate at Tiverton Parkway, and then cross over ECS back to the Up line via the crossovers at Tiverton Jct, this being a signalled move and one which Exeter Panel are very happy to offer.

 

With regard to XC, there is 35 - 40 minutes between a typical Down arrival at Taunton and the next Up departure, which is just sufficient to run to Tiverton Parkway, detrain, cross over and return to collect passengers from the Up line (yes it's admittedly tight, but do-able in my operational experience, even if a small delay was incurred, especially if there were passengers wishing to travel off buses at Tiverton Parkway to the North).

 

However, over the years, virtually since they became an Arriva TOC, XC have shown a marked reluctance to take any sets even remotely out of diagram. I accept that they may not have the resources immediately at hand, but there is no corporate desire to even seek to reshuffle resources to improve the service to customers. To be honest, with a blockage at Hele, say, and the line still open to Tiverton Jct, we'd be lucky if XC even went beyond Bristol TM half the time, and that is the truth as observed by myself and many other frustrated NR colleagues over the years.

 

Let's also not forget (as I'm sure you're personally aware, Royaloak), that Tiverton Parkway is significantly more convenient and easier for a bus to rail transfer and vice versa, as both Exeter and Taunton require a lengthy trip through the suburbs to get from the M5 to the railway station (especially in the case of Exeter), which is why a bus from Newton Abbot to Tiverton Parkway is so effective, when this can be arranged.

 

If in this last instance, the possession started just to the west of Taunton, eg. Norton Fitzwarren, then fair enough, but that would imply that there was some kind of problem between there and Tiverton Parkway (hopefully not at Whiteball, which has had a fortune spent on the drainage there in early 2014).

 

I would add that I do not believe that John was travelling himself on that date.

I agree entirely with you, there is enough time to sensibly run to TVP, detrain and run down to Tiverton Loops to change to the up line to restart from TVP.

 

My previous reply also read rather more bluntly than intended for which I also apologise, it doesnt read the way intended either, I can only assume I was under the influence of something.

 

XC do like to throw the towel in at the slightest inconvenience.

[Davexoc]

And how many days out of 365 in each year are XC unable to transit the sea wall?

 

Standby locos cost money to maintain, service and repair - if they don't get used regularly then they don't tend to be very reliable either.

 

Similarly drivers need to be trained and use such locos regularly to keep their traction knowledge up to date.

 

All in all a very expensive solution to a problem that, while frustrating, is not one that occurs day in day out.

 

That does not excuse the designers of the Voyagers from not considering the effects of salt water spray - but until XC gets new stock which is not susceptible to said salt spray, its not economic to do anything about it.

 

To conclude, the railway industry is expensive (regardless of who owns it) and UK taxpayers plus users expect to have their money spent wisely. Spending it on a fleet of 'just in case' diesel locos is not good value for money.

The change to the rules on compensation for delays and cancellation are supposed to address this, whereby the current TOC stance is to delay or cancel because compensation is not automatically paid out. When they have to pay all the compensation they are supposed to, it will become cheaper to have spare staff and equipment to deal with the problems.

 

Dave

[Zomboid]

But who really pays the compensation? It's passengers and taxpayers in the end. Likewise, passengers and taxpayers would be funding standby locos.

The railway isn't funded to have contingency plans for everything, and if there are a few days every year that vomiters can't get past dawlish then taking the hit is probably the sensible approach. Much like we don't have Canadian style snow clearing equipment for the south of England, we just put up with a week of disruption every few years.

[The Stationmaster]

The change to the rules on compensation for delays and cancellation are supposed to address this, whereby the current TOC stance is to delay or cancel because compensation is not automatically paid out. When they have to pay all the compensation they are supposed to, it will become cheaper to have spare staff and equipment to deal with the problems.

 

Dave

 

I doubt it.  The costs of standby locos, let alone people to drive them, can be pretty massive and it will take an awful lot of compensation payouts to make them an economic proposition.  Plus of course there's the not inconsiderable problem of where one would actually find such locos as the overall fleet, and therefore any available capacity within it, has shrunk massively in recent years.

Edited February 3, 2017 by The Stationmaster

[Re6/6]

Sadly we seem to be stuck with this X/C inadequacy as l would assume that there are no plans to replace the Voyagers. Perhaps they could take on some of the HSTs from GW when the new 800s are delivered. I fancy that X/C is performing in these situations to the letter of the franchise agreement by doing the minimum required under the contract.

 

Here are a few pictures from BBC 'Spotlight'. One showing the good old HST making its progress along the wall!

 

 

 

 

And finally...there's always the nut...!

 

 

[royaloak]

 and if there are a few days every year that vomiters can't get past dawlish then taking the hit is probably the sensible approach.

I think its 3 times last week and every day this week so far.

[Keith George]

Come back  Virgin.

 

Keith.

[corneliuslundie]

But didn't Cross Country inherit the units from Virgin?

Jonathan

[surfsup]

Actually, come to think of it. Surely some working around could be done to position a standby loco in the West Country for such occasions? GWR Now has 2 of the 57/3 Fleet with Modified coulpers, and should be able to haul Dellner fitted stock (387s & 800s). This would of course require some working together of the TOCs and no doubt some money to change hands - as well as XC to remove their reluctance to such things.

 

Virgin of course had the advantage of having the 57/3 fleet in house at the time, making the situation easier for them.

[The Stationmaster]

Actually, come to think of it. Surely some working around could be done to position a standby loco in the West Country for such occasions? GWR Now has 2 of the 57/3 Fleet with Modified coulpers, and should be able to haul Dellner fitted stock (387s & 800s). This would of course require some working together of the TOCs and no doubt some money to change hands - as well as XC to remove their reluctance to such things.

 

Virgin of course had the advantage of having the 57/3 fleet in house at the time, making the situation easier for them.

 

I wonder how much loco hire costs now?  Must be at least £700 per day and is probably a lot more for spot hire even on a contracted basis - plus crew and fuel/consummables so in reality a two shift loco (assuming that it could actually be crewed) is going to cost the better part of £1500 per day plus the need for someone to superintend coupling/uncoupling.

 

Overall it's probably cheaper to do a decent job waterproofing the trains.