Washout at Dawlish

[Chris M]

Today should provide a decent test of the new works.

 

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, Chris M said:

Today should provide a decent test of the new works.

 

 

And the resilience of the plant left on the beach....

 

Looks like all is OK as High Tide was 40 minutes ago and the excavator has begun moving!

Edited February 18, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[PhilJ W]

Don't forget that Dawlish is facing away from the prevailing winds (and storm Eunice) and is pretty well sheltered from them.

[PhilJ W]

Getting a bit choppy but not too bad.

https://www.dawlishbeach.com/cameras/free-cameras/the-blenheim-cam/

[boxbrownie]

32 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Don't forget that Dawlish is facing away from the prevailing winds (and storm Eunice) and is pretty well sheltered from them.

They have cancelled all services here, but yes the north coast is getting the brunt today although even here it’s blowing a gale outside, already had a neighbours green house panel fly into the garden!

[Oldddudders]

Trees down in Cornwall and Sennen lifeboat station roof has been damaged, ditto Bude leisure centre. Nasty stuff. 

[Gwiwer]

All Stop at Clapham Junction as of 10.45.  

 

Most services were delayed already and the Epsom line was blocked by a horizontal tree.  Then the wind hit.  It had been breezy from first thing, got distinctly gusty by 10.00 and I had reported two wind-assisted ballast bags making progress towards London and presenting a hazard to trains at 10.15.  

 

SLAM!!!  The wind hit like a wall of bricks and contained all sorts of debris meaning you could actually see it coming; a driver somewhere called Red; all trains were ordered to stay where they were or proceed at walking speed to the next station if the line was clear.  Some trains remain in the same positions several hours later.  Trees are / were over lines in many locations, a door occupied the Up Main at New Malden, all manner of debris was scattered in moments.  We heard suggestions of a mini-tornado across Woking but with some comms down there has been no confirmation I am aware of.  

 

 

 

 

[boxbrownie]

3 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Trees down in Cornwall and Sennen lifeboat station roof has been damaged, ditto Bude leisure centre. Nasty stuff. 

Our daughter and grand daughter were supposed to being going home today by train, now her husband will be taking a trip from Norfolk to Cornwall to collect them, even the service over the weekend is awful (engineering work) no wonder people don’t use the trains for leisure any more, weekends are always disrupted. 

[Gwiwer]

Most if not all operators now said to be suspending train services to / from London for the duration owing to far too many line blockages for crews to clear quickly.  Hasn't happened since '87 that I can recall but this storm is even stronger than that was.  122mph recorded on the Isle of Wight (which has just been sighted off Dover ) for the UK's highest-ever recorded wind speed according the the Met Office.  

[Titan]

59 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Our daughter and grand daughter were supposed to being going home today by train, now her husband will be taking a trip from Norfolk to Cornwall to collect them, even the service over the weekend is awful (engineering work) no wonder people don’t use the trains for leisure any more, weekends are always disrupted. 

 

TBH with the weather the way it is I am not sure I would risk such a long journey by road either.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Gwiwer said:

  122mph recorded on the Isle of Wight (which has just been sighted off Dover ) for the UK's highest-ever recorded wind speed according the the Met Office.  

I'm afraid that's way off the UK record, it is however AFAIK a record for the Needles/England.

Cairngorm weather station recorded an hourly mean of 115mph in Dec 2011 (that would be classed as a hurricane any where else!) and holds the record for a gust at 173mph in March '86

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Titan said:

 

TBH with the weather the way it is I am not sure I would risk such a long journey by road either.

Not my choice, we are happy for her to stay longer but they live on the farm so when the news said "danger to life" she just shrugged her shoulders and said just another day then 

 

And TBH they wont be going until Sat midday....it'll have blown over by then according to the forecast on Dark Sky.

[Wickham Green too]

43 minutes ago, melmerby said:

I'm afraid that's way off the UK record,  ........ Cairngorm weather station ....

Is Scotland still in the UK ? .... I lose track !

[Gwiwer]

44 minutes ago, melmerby said:

I'm afraid that's way off the UK record, it is however AFAIK a record for the Needles/England.

Indeed.  The BBC feed has been updated to mark this as the highest recorded gust in England rather than the UK.  

[RJS1977]

It should also be borne in mind that wind gusts by their nature are very localised in area, and anemometers of course even more so, so there may well have been stronger gusts elsewhere in the UK either now or in the past, which have not been recorded simply because they didn't coincide with weather stations.

 

Sustained wind speeds are a much more useful comparison.

[mdvle]

10 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

Our daughter and grand daughter were supposed to being going home today by train, now her husband will be taking a trip from Norfolk to Cornwall to collect them, even the service over the weekend is awful (engineering work) no wonder people don’t use the trains for leisure any more, weekends are always disrupted. 

 

So given the videos at the top of this (226) page show the extensive work being done to the platforms at Dawlish, and that they require a 48 hour blockage to get 1/4 done (so 4 weekends), how exactly do you suggest they achieve that work without a weekend blockade?

 

And note that they are doing it in February, which isn't exactly a peak period for leisure use of trains in the south-west anyway.

[boxbrownie]

9 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

So given the videos at the top of this (226) page show the extensive work being done to the platforms at Dawlish, and that they require a 48 hour blockage to get 1/4 done (so 4 weekends), how exactly do you suggest they achieve that work without a weekend blockade?

 

And note that they are doing it in February, which isn't exactly a peak period for leisure use of trains in the south-west anyway.

Stop it, whenever they do it it will be annoying to somebody…this time it is me and my family…OK?

 

And note, it is half term, and it is very busy here in Cornwall this week, so maybe a little fore thought could have helped?

 

And it was the bus service between Exeter and Plymouth closure that was the issue.

Edited February 19, 2022 by boxbrownie

[Mike_Walker]

9 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Stop it, whenever they do it it will be annoying to somebody…this time it is me and my family…OK?

 

And note, it is half term, and it is very busy here in Cornwall this week, so maybe a little fore thought could have helped?

 

And it was the bus service between Exeter and Plymouth closure that was the issue.

This work HAS to be done and as stated by mdvle above this is the quietest time of the year (traffic wise, the weather can be challenging!) so that's why it's done now.  Perhaps you would like NWR, GWR and AXC to consult every resident of Devon and Cornwall in advance to determine planned travel so that NWR can plan the blockades accordingly.  If this work is not carried out the likely result would be further serious damage along the exposed section resulting in further extended, or even permanent closures west of Exeter.  GWR, at least, always try to provide an all-rail alternative route rather than a replacement bus but thanks to policy 6 decades ago that's not possible west of Exeter.

 

As the old saying goes, you can please some of the people some of the time, some all of the time but not all the people all of the time.  In this case you were slightly inconvenienced, get over it and consider others.

 

A few weeks ago a GA train encountered a washout at Haddiscoe.  Another was held at Reedham for an hour as a result before being used to go and rescue the passengers off the stranded train.  This led one passenger on the delayed train to tweet their connection at Norwich was missed and their whole day's plans ruined as a result.  Sadly typical of so much selfish behaviour these days with people unwilling or unable to consider the needs of wider society.

[boxbrownie]

13 minutes ago, Mike_Walker said:

  Perhaps you would like NWR, GWR and AXC to consult every resident of Devon and Cornwall in advance to determine planned travel so that NWR can plan the blockades accordingly. 

Would they?  That would be great thank you….if you could arrange that.

 

 

All I said was it was annoying…..and the righteous souls come out and give a sermon.

 

Don’t bother answering, I’m off to the beach for a walk.

[PhilJ W]

For the last couple of days with so many trees down any sort of road or rail travel would be dangerous.

[Gwiwer]

45 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

For the last couple of days with so many trees down any sort of road or rail travel would be dangerous.

And yet we still get the demanding "Gimme" brigade abusing staff whose invidious task it is to advise that no trains are running.  

 

Yesterday began quietly enough at work with almost all trains running, though delayed by the NR 50mph blanket restriction, and a modest number of passengers took advantage though nowhere near the typical Friday numbers.  Many stayed home heeding warnings.  Some may have wondered what all the fuss was about as 10.00 came and went with little sign of storm activity.  

 

By 10.30 that had abruptly changed and before 11.00 all trains were ordered to stop where they were.  Very few moved again for the rest of the day.  This had the unfortunate effect of leaving many folk stranded either at work or mid-journey.  

 

Quite simply with the wind hitting like a ton of bricks and containing enough airborne debris to make its arrival visible from half a mile away it was no longer safe to move anything.  Trees fell over in at least 20 places.  Debris easily large enough to disable and possibly to derail a train was blowing freely about the tracks.  

 

Some staff offered to stay back and help out.  The afternoon shift was unable to get to work by the normal means and many didn't get there at all.  Two of the early turn were still on duty 12 hours later in order to offer such assistance as they could to customers.  

 

And still we got abused.  "What do you mean this train's going nowhere - I've got a ticket ....."  was one attitude.  "What's your name - you'll be hearing from my solicitor if I don't get home"  was also heard.  "No-one told me ...... " also; well there's no telling everyone and we can't make you listen to or read warnings but.  Prize for hot-head of the day went to the one who tried swinging fists in rage after being held on a stationary train for over there hours.  I can understand the frustration.  "You lot are *******, I've missed my connection, I've missed my lunch appointment and now you tell me you're not bothering to run trains again.  What a ***** waste of space you lot are."  

 

Yes sir.  Have the rest of a safe day.  Do watch out for tree-parts which are travelling faster in the wind than a train would right now.  

 

Taking it on the chin sometimes requires a very large chin covered in very thick skin indeed.  

[Ncarter2]

20 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

And yet we still get the demanding "Gimme" brigade abusing staff whose invidious task it is to advise that no trains are running.  

 

Yesterday began quietly enough at work with almost all trains running, though delayed by the NR 50mph blanket restriction, and a modest number of passengers took advantage though nowhere near the typical Friday numbers.  Many stayed home heeding warnings.  Some may have wondered what all the fuss was about as 10.00 came and went with little sign of storm activity.  

 

By 10.30 that had abruptly changed and before 11.00 all trains were ordered to stop where they were.  Very few moved again for the rest of the day.  This had the unfortunate effect of leaving many folk stranded either at work or mid-journey.  

 

Quite simply with the wind hitting like a ton of bricks and containing enough airborne debris to make its arrival visible from half a mile away it was no longer safe to move anything.  Trees fell over in at least 20 places.  Debris easily large enough to disable and possibly to derail a train was blowing freely about the tracks.  

 

Some staff offered to stay back and help out.  The afternoon shift was unable to get to work by the normal means and many didn't get there at all.  Two of the early turn were still on duty 12 hours later in order to offer such assistance as they could to customers.  

 

And still we got abused.  "What do you mean this train's going nowhere - I've got a ticket ....."  was one attitude.  "What's your name - you'll be hearing from my solicitor if I don't get home"  was also heard.  "No-one told me ...... " also; well there's no telling everyone and we can't make you listen to or read warnings but.  Prize for hot-head of the day went to the one who tried swinging fists in rage after being held on a stationary train for over there hours.  I can understand the frustration.  "You lot are *******, I've missed my connection, I've missed my lunch appointment and now you tell me you're not bothering to run trains again.  What a ***** waste of space you lot are."  

 

Yes sir.  Have the rest of a safe day.  Do watch out for tree-parts which are travelling faster in the wind than a train would right now.  

 

Taking it on the chin sometimes requires a very large chin covered in very thick skin indeed.  

Got to admit I do feel for the passenger facing staff. I do recall one evening I was on the train back to Bournemouth after working around Vauxhall. There was this one arrogant chap, was loud and obnoxious. The poor guard was taking a lot of abuse, but remained professional throughout. There had been a fatality earlier, services were all delayed. He was only bothered about getting to Southampton Airport, so assumed he could bully the guard into not allowing the train to stop until his stop. Wouldn’t have it and he began to get very irate. It was at this point I felt I had to have a word, initially he just went at me as well, but when I pointed out I could very easily call the box and control, get the train stopped at the next station and have him removed, he very quickly shut up and sat down. The guard was very thankful, but they shouldn’t have to deal with that, no staff member should. 
That said, I do think the Southern Region made a mistake by even contemplating running services yesterday. Others routes announced suspending services Friday, so why the routes predicted to be the worst affected decided to still Run makes no sense. You’d think they would have learnt after the last couple of occasions, but no. On Wessex alone, there were in excess of 30 trees down, that  not taking into account any not identified when services were stopped. 

[rodent279]

Having seen a photo of an HST with a large tree where the driver should be sat, I can well understand trains not running, and I can understand drivers not wanting to drive them either.

[boxbrownie]

1 minute ago, rodent279 said:

Having seen a photo of an HST with a large tree where the driver should be sat, I can well understand trains not running, and I can understand drivers not wanting to drive them either.

Having been in the cab of an HST at high speed when a Pheasant decided to play a game of his close cousin the Chicken……that made enough mess, although just mess and a very, very loud bang……agree completely.

[Gwiwer]

1 hour ago, Ncarter2 said:

I do think the Southern Region made a mistake by even contemplating running services yesterday. Others routes announced suspending services Friday

An operational decision probably made at the highest level between the operators and NR having regard to the forecast  at the time the decision was made.  At that time the warning level would have been Amber.  With plans made and public advised (albeit late into the evening) accordingly plans were stuck with.  And the weather played nice until 10am too.  

 

A case of darned if you do and darned if you don't because had the entire service been suspended there would have been howls of complaint from the early-morning workers, many of whom are in what we once called key-worker roles and need to be at work on time, that trains were not running despite the good weather.  

 

It is important to remember that many train operator's staff also rely on the service to get them to and from work.  So when they face a barrage of abuse and threats of violence they have also come through the same difficulties, and / or will be facing them when trying to get home.  

 

Consistency of information is another matter.  Best advice changes in a moment in emergency situations.  What person A was told can differ to what B, C, and D were told leading to confusion, anxiety and frustration.  Even now when the Network Rail app (which many users rely on) is showing all services at my local station are cancelled this is not correct; I can see trains stopping and serving the station.  Not all on time, of course, but trains are running.  As Realtime Trains will show.  Goodness knows what the users of Citymapper and Google travel apps are seeing; we frequently advise those are avoided and to use the TOC / NR ones instead because those are fed from a realtime source.